be richest person
crash the biggest economy in the world
buy the remains for cheap
not exactly a complicated plan.
maga voters want this to happen. they crave being worse off.
The crabs in a bucket mentality.
Crabs don’t actually root for the outcome, they can’t see the outcome. They just try to climb and end up pulling down anything above them. These people actively vote against their interest and then cheer the pain & suffering of others. I’d take crabs any day of the week.
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This is what happened in 2008. They’re just trying to repeat the process.
Billionaire Disaster Capitalism - billionaires create their own disasters and then profit immensely off of them
exactly this. crashing the economy IS the plan. you just need to be short on the right stocks at the right time.
By April, the employment report will probably be either heavily doctored or just downright not published.
Nazis don’t care about the truth.
Taking a page from the CCP
It’s sad that you have downvotes for this. It is a common practice in authoritarian states.
Crises are a feature of capitalism. Marx talked about this. Things become hell for the working class, and the capitalists reap the rewards.
Yes, and people with power, people with connections, and people who are rich will always benefit from crises. Naomi Kleins The shock doctrine explains this very well in a modern context.
Adding to my reading list!
That being said there is yet to be a system that does not have crises.
We haven’t tried many
Humanity has, the one with the least propensity to experience crises is the one most nations are following.
Controlled economies are much less stable but Marx was unaware of that as economics in his time was less data driven and more philosophical.
Controlled economies are much less stable
Said in thread about how nuking the control over the economy is about to cause a recession. Yeah, sure.
Deregulation almost always leads to the working class being robbed, the land poisoned, and people killed.
Instead of ranting about deregulation why not look at how poorly controlled economies behave? There aren’t many functioning and what few exist aren’t doing great. Humanity is not smart enough to currently run a controlled economy effectively. That might change if actual AI exists but right now we cannot do it.
Remember the largest command economy in history, The USSR, collapsed mostly because of economic failures that were self created. The second largest command economy was the PRC who moved away from it to a hybrid system and has had greater stability since then.
Every economy is controlled in some way.
Yes but “controlled/command/planned economy” refers to one where the state sets prices rather than letting market forces determine them. This is not possible to competently do right now with current technology.
The difference is nobody wants to fix them right now, instead misdirecting people toward “woke DEI” and “government waste” as if reducing these will magically fix the crisis.
That simply isn’t true. There are thousands of economists all around the world trying to fix these problems.
What you are talking about is grandstanding politicians in America which isnt reflective of all nations.
I think there are plenty of people that want to fix these issues, but at least in the US (and I guess anywhere that is falling into fascism), they are locked out or hindered by politicians and other ghouls who are too preoccupied stripping everything for parts before they ultimately bail and leave behind a fucking mess (2008 housing crash vibes).
That guy is forgetting that the jobs report is produced by a government agency, so what makes him think they’re going to report accurate numbers?
Or any numbers if they are all fired too.
That reminds me of when someone tried to use the FOIA to request firing information for one of the govt. agencies and all of their FOIA staff had been fired so there was nobody to fulfill the request.
“Jesse Rothstein is an economist, and currently professor of public policy and economics at the University of California, Berkeley. In 2010, he was chief economist at the US Department of Labor. He is the founding director of the California Policy Lab, a research associate of the National Bureau of Economic Research, and is a member of the editorial boards of Education Finance and Policy, The Review of Economics and Statistics, American Economic Review, and Industrial Relations.[1][2][3][4]”
For those that don’t know the guy he’s got a solid pedigree
This is the point. They want to crash the economy.
I mean, he said so himself even before the election. We just have the fucking stupidest, god awful people in this country that apparently wanted it.
he said so himself
I would love to be able to show some of my MAGA relatives that clip. Do you have a link?
Thank you for the link.
In the article Elon Musk said that we (and by we he means us) have to reduce spending to live within our means. LOL. This from the guy who sells $100k cars.
This from the guy who sells $100k cars.
And could afford to buy one of those cars every hour for over 400 years without running out of money
Probably realized he can’t sell a lot of those anymore.
He could sell a bunch of Tesla stock, crash the entire US economy and then buy a whole lot of whatever he wants because everything will be discounted (including Tesla, he could just rebuy his stock for a fraction of the price)
Rich people LOVE economic downturns. Best time to make money is when everything is on sale, just need to buy and wait. Stocks, property, everything.
Because he can’t buy whatever he wants now?
He can, but if stocks fall 90%, he can buy 10x as much. If he shorts things on the way down, he can multiply his money first too.
If this is played right, he could be worth tens or hundreds of trillions a decade or 2 from now.
Hurray for democracy! Everyone gets a vote just for showing up!
And, look, I’m not a hedge analyst or an economist, but even I can see that the comedown from the tariffs is going to have a huge negative impact on the stock market.
So, genuine question here, if this recession comes along with the stock market dip, will that cause a spiral that leads to another great depression?
Maybe? I do know that Elon is going after the agency that runs the FDIC. The FDIC insures the bank’s money. I don’t see how they don’t see how shitty this is going to be for all of them too. It’s insane.
Oligarchs have their money tied up in property, investments, and hidden from the taxman in foreign banks. Destroying the stock market would hurt them a bit, but destroying banks? The way they see it, only poor people have their money in a savings account.
I remember the first time I realized that. It was when watching the Futurama episode, “Insane in the Mainframe.”
Judge Whitey: The charge is bank robbery. Now, my caddie’s chauffeur informs me that a bank is a place where people put money that isn’t properly invested. Therefore, robbing a bank is tantamount to that most heinous of crimes - theft of money.
Ha! Joke’s on them! I have no money so FDIC doesn’t affect me! ᕕ(ᐛ)ᕗ
That depends on a bunch of factors.
Here’s my take on what “caused” the Great Depression (over simplification, obviously):
- Widespread deflation as countries returned to the gold standard after WW1
- Reduced spending due to 1 (holding cash was better than investing)
- Tariffs further reduce demand by hiking prices
This time around, spending is pretty healthy, we’re not in a deflationary environment (just coming off an inflationary environment), etc. Tariffs will likely cause a demand shock due to higher prices though, so I think recession is likely as spending falls off (assuming the tariffs stick). I doubt we’ll see a depression unless Trump increases tariffs again in response like Hoover did.
Everything depends on how the US gov handles the reaction to tariffs and how other countries react as well.
So basically a competent and thoughtful government is sort of required to avoid one?
gulp
No, we shouldn’t be trying to avoid recessions, that’s how we got the Great Depression of the 1930s and the stagflation of the 1970s (different causes and responses, similar govt meddling). Recessions are normal and usually short lived, so the best response IMO is to let bad businesses fail and maybe reduce lending rates to encourage good businesses to fill the expand.
What we need is for government to stay out of it. Don’t touch tariffs, and definitely don’t try to fix things. The economy is fine, though I think we’ll likely see a correction or recession regardless sometime in the next few years (AI bubble, high borrowing rates, climate change, etc). I also believe tariffs will accelerate that.
So we don’t necessarily need competent government, we just need to avoid incompetent, reactionary government when the pullback happens.
Thats my point. Far right governments are taking power all over the world. They don’t usually lead to stability. Add in some well-timed crisis (or at least the perception of a crisis, and the media loves to make us perceive things as crises), and things could go south very fuckin fast. Look at Milei, Trump, the far right in Britain, the AfD. These aren’t the most competent people. They’re reactionaries at best. But what they are good at is scapegoating groups and whipping up peoples fears and biases. A few more elections going the wrong way and we are looking at a nearing uniform far right takeover of power.
Look at Milei, Trump, the far right in Britain, the AfD.
One of these is not like the other.
I think Milei is doing a fantastic job at what he set out to do: tackle inflation. He’s an economist, and when he took office, inflation was 250% and rising, peaked at 300%, and now it’s <100% and falling rapidly. He had to take drastic measures to fix it, similar to (and more extreme than) what we did in the late 70s and early 80s to fix stagflation, and it took years to take effect. The larger the problem, the more painful the fix, and he’s taking the right approach IMO of trying to get it done ASAP so things can return back to normal more quickly.
I agree with the overall sentiment though. I’m very concerned about Trump and many of the elections over the last couple of years, as well as upcoming elections. We’ll see where it all ends up though.
Also the wave of unemployment that is about to cone might push us into a recession
It’s not going to be from cutting federal workers, at least not in the short term, those impacts are more long-term. I’m much more worried about tariffs destroying consumer spending, and that might end up with a wave of unemployment.
But hey, look on the bright side: Musk and his rich bros will be able to buy up stuff for dirt cheap!
Oh come now! That’s surely just a coincidence.
Haha yeah
Don’t worry. Elon and his friends will simply invest in shares as they bottom out in the crash.
Who is there to warn though?
You got your normal Americans who already know this.
And then there’s the manipulated
NazisMagas that won’t even listen to this warning.This is some of that bizarre, black-and-white thinking I’ve come to expect from Lemmy (and, of course, reddit). I can assure you that there are a lot of “normal Americans” who do not “already know this”.
I feel like too many of the people here really do need to touch grass. Idk if it’s the high number of people in tech work or something else but I see so many takes of what “normal” people that’s so far off the mark it makes me question when was the last time they spoke to an actual person.
If by “actual person,” you mean Trump voter, I’m afraid our definitions of people might be different.
No, I just mean actual people. As in, the majority of people. The ones outside the houses of the people of Lemmy. Assuming that I mean right wingers is exactly what I mean tho, no such thing as nuance.
I’m not the OP. But I’m a bit jaded as well. I come from a family of Trump voters. And moved to a very liberal city after leaving home. So most of the people I know fall into the two camps. The people who do not are few. But my sample is biased of course.
Won’t these numbers be manipulated and likely outright lies anyway?
Deportations are also lost jobs. Not sure they will be counted though.
Good point.
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My guess is that the first bad report will be accurate, but once this administration gets caught with their pants down, they’ll fire that team and start releasing jobs reports that have been sharpied to death.
Demanding that reporters who make criticisms of Trump/Musk be fired and jailed, is going to get the agencies in line with our Fuhrers.
