In Taiwan, we had “day markets” where local farmers and fishers sell produce directly to you from the previous day’s harvest. Every city has at least a few dozen day markets as well. It really serves the community and not big corps.
Some veggies still have live bugs(ladybugs) on it. That’s how fresh it is.
It also cost 1/4 the cost in a corporate grocery store.
C.S.A
This is great. Is there something similar for finding local farms regardless of race?
Farm co-ops I think focus on local farms.
Depending on your location, try heading to your local “ethnic” neighborhood produce shops and price check those.
You could try researching CSAs in your area. There are a few near me that sell farm shares with weekly pickup of seasonal veggies during harvest season. I’m in northern California, and our rate is under $20 per week after we split it with another couple. We usually receive more veggies than we would buy during a weekly grocery store trip, plus our farm let’s everyone pick fresh bouquets each pickup as a nice bonus.
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“Can” cost less is doing a lot of work there. I would guess it would mildly annoy people in power, but TBH this isn’t a way to save money. If it really was, it would be common practice already.
There are lots of people who frequent local / smaller farms for things like access to organic foods / rarer crops / community support, but I’ve never known it to be cheaper than the industrial produce one can get at your nearest supermarket. Supermarkets clobbered local guys for a reason and pricing was a huge part of that.
I would guess it would mildly annoy people in power, but TBH this isn’t a way to save money. If it really was, it would be common practice already.
Bidets are a cheaper, well known, better way to clean your asshole after taking a shit, yet the common practice of Americans is still to choose to smear their own shit around their asshole with dry disposable paper cloths.
The flaw in your argument is that you think people, Americans at that, wouldn’t ignorantly continue to pay more for the convenience of not having to think where to buy their produce, because they can get it from the local Walmart 15 minutes away, instead of saving $20+ and driving 2 more minutes.
Americans are notoriously lazy and stupid, as evidenced this past November.
Holy shit…your thoughts on bidets are spot on…I just got one and hate not having it all the time due to travel.
-am American but want nothing to do with this hateful bullshit going on currently
I got one cause of how my friend put it to me when she told me to get one. She asked me “if you get shit on your hand, are you just gonna wipe it off with a paper towel and go about your day, or are you gonna wash your hands? Now when you take a crap, why are you just smearing it around instead of washing it?” And it stuck with me and I’ve bought bidets from then on out. A 12 pack of TP lasts me a year, and I only use it to dry my ass. It’s the best thing in the world.
I laughed at friends and family during covid, cause I had a nice clean ass, and everyone else was fighting for toilet paper.
I’d pay more just to cut out corps.
My buddy’s sister is a cheese monger. 10/10
How is this not racist? If there were a service where you could choose to buy directly from white farmers peoples would lose their minds
Because, on average, black people are more economically disadvantaged than white people.
Choosing to explicitly buy from black farmers will, on average, tend to support those with the least financial means out of the general population of farmers, whereas choosing to explicitly buy from white farmers will, on average, tend to support those who are already more financially advantaged.
One side is directly choosing to help those most likely to be economically disadvantaged, the other would be explicitly ignoring those with the least means in order to help those who already have the most, thus the situations are not quite comparable.
I personally would prefer an index that directly assessed farmers based on overall wealth to determine who you should buy from, but because that’s extraordinarily difficult to constantly update & maintain, verify, etc, it can just be easier to divide among racial lines since that still tends to produce a grouping that is relatively similar.
If the concern is economic disadvantages, shouldn’t the selectivity be based on income and net worth instead of skin color? Maybe selling products from poor and independent farmers. A portion of every race is economically disadvantaged.
Edit: I really appreciate your response. I think you described the issue really well.
shouldn’t the selectivity be based on income and net worth instead of skin color?
We should already be taxing proportional to income, and in the 60s when Affirmative Action was implemented, we were.
But the problem isn’t just that there is a lower class at all, the problem is that the lower class is disproportionately filled with black people and minorities as a direct result of racism.
If you think of it like a footrace, we ran the first half of the race giving black people a straight up disadvantage for no other reason than the color of their skin. Now most of the people in the back of the pack are black. We should already be helping all people in back to catch up to the rest of the pack, but this still means black people are disproportionately in the back as a direct result of that initial disadvantage. We could ignore it, and say that after another 300-400 years of equality, maybe things will even out on their own, but in the meantime you have a bunch of people who are living in poverty and dying, and we can scientifically say for an absolute fact that it’s a direct result of historical disadvantages targeting their ancestors based on race.
It’s inhumane to look those people in the eye and say, “tough luck, we’d help, but we decided we don’t do racism anymore.”
This is a remedial question, but that doesn’t make it a bad question. It is a hard problem to solve, and calling an advantage based on race somehow not racist does sound paradoxical at first glance. It’s important to be able to entertain the explanation without outright assuming you’re being attacked by a bunch of obtuse racists.
Hopefully we agree that:
- black americans are at a statistically significant socioeconomic disadvantage compared to white americans, both historically and to this day, and
- this is a direct result of a history of systematic disadvantages specifically targeting them based on their race
Let’s pretend the second bullet point has been solved, that systemic racism is over and done, and we’ve established a perfectly equal union. Even if that’s the case, we are left with the first bullet point as an ongoing problem. The challenge is now, how do you undo the very apparent damage that our history of racism caused, without specifically giving advantages to that group based on their race? And the short answer to a very complex question is: you can’t.
So the US government instituted “Affirmative Action” the goal of which was to deliberately give a targeted advantage to people who have had a history of targeted disadvantages in this country. This catches you up to roughly the 1960s.
But in the last 40 years or so, we continue to see lower class areas of the US disproportionately filled with black americans, and we also see widening wealth inequality affecting virtually everyone. So naturally we also see an increase of non-black people asking the same question as you: “I’m having a hard time too, why are they getting an advantage based on their race? That’s racism!”
The solution was to tax the rich, reduce wealth inequality, and continue to normalize disproportionate demographics. Instead, the wealthy used populism to hijack the republican party, and convince white americans that the minorities recieving these benefits were their enemy. And after 40ish years of pushing this narrative, they succeeded.
With the republican takeover of the federal govt, we can be virtually assured that any ongoing attempts to normalize these unfair demographics will be abandoned, at least at the federal level.
But it’s still a problem, just now one for the people and the states to solve. If you want to support black-owned farmers in an attempt to help pull historically disadvantaged groups out of poverty, you can. If not, that’s fine, just at least please vote for legislation that intends to reduce wealth inequality. (Note that history has exactly two ways of reducing wealth inequality: high taxes on the rich, or war. The question isn’t whether wealth will get redistributed, it’s how).
Tl; dr Yeah, it’s an advantage based on race to solve a problem caused by a history of disadvantages based on race.
Well why do you think it is? Genuinely curious
Because racism is the discrimination of someone based on their ethnicity. If you are choosing one person over another due solely to their ethnicity, isn’t that discrimination? Shouldn’t people be judged not by the color of their skin? Explicitly advertising that you are selective solely based on race is racism.
I have seen this discussion happen over and over again and a big part of the misunderstanding is some people in the US have the definition of racism also involving power and some don’t. If your definition is the former, it’s what allows people to say “Fuck white people” isn’t racist with a straight face. Before you ask someone if something is racist, ask them what they think racism is. It will save a lot of time and aggravation for everyone.
It doesn’t matter what their definition of racism is. “Fuck white people” is racist.
To be clear, I’m 100% with you, just pointing out some troubles I had when discussing racism in the past and I found out we weren’t all on the same page.
Some white people have no power and some black people have loads of it. Can we just stop this categorization of people by race for if they can or can’t do something?
Lol. Lmao.
Sadly and unsurprisingly, nothing near me. On the bright side, we do have a farmer’s market so I’ll just continue to patron that and say that if you have one near you, definitely check them out!
UK here but in my experience farmers markets cost vastly more. Shame because if a farmer just asked for cash and I can fill a sack of potatoes myself for less cost than a supermarket I would go for it. I don’t need a fancy hipster shop front.
Problem with farmers market is it costs farmers to have the stall there (rent the space), to move all their produce and they even need to man it. Which is bassically what a supermarket does, but in bulk so it’s cheaper. In theory you would have to go directly to the farms for a discount.
Farm shops, so literally on the farm. Are also very expensive! The ones I see are usually targeting the middle class market so I don’t really go there. I would go to a barn if it was cheaper than a supermarket
Honestly a shame with those farmers. Unfortunately why I had to include “in theory”
Finding a farm close where you want is made unnecessarily difficult by the site’s interface. The grouping of states in regions is a hindrance and once you get to your state, the farms can’t be sorted other than by their name, so you have to look through every single one of them to find the farms close to you.
Great idea, terrible execution.
But probably not a difficult fix. Websites can be updated.
Which is why I’m providing feedback. I really want this to work.
Who are you providing it to? Because I don’t think FlyingSquid made this website.
The great wide web. I don’t think it’s him either, but this is the channel I found.
People who produce bad design like that, are often resistant to change.
If they are, you can probably make a better site, that adds the feature you’re missing and can link to results on theirs.
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Or they’re inexperienced and don’t know any better.
Or they might welcome assistance from someone who knows how to do it, since their expertise is in farming and they don’t have a lot of money for web design. Such assistance could possibly qualify as a tax-deductible donation.
As a software developer making enterprise software, that simply isn’t true.
I have been responsible for making some pretty poor design choices and UX flows. I was never resistant to change and more just needed someone to say hey bro that’s dumb, I don’t why don’t we do it like this.
Now I know how to do X and won’t make the same mistakes again.
I’ve worked in IT for over 30 years. I have come across a lot of people who design terrible UIs and get all pissy when you suggest any improvements. I didn’t in any way want to imply that everybody is like that.
Thanks for coming back to reply. First I want to say that the downvotes you’ve received have been unnecessary imo and I think I should have added that my original comment was in my experience and purely anecdotal.
I guess it all depends on the person and whether they see constructive criticism as… well constructive or whether they see it as a slight against them. Like in any industry really.
it’s offended developers who have been forced to make awful UX/UI for sure. i had to change mine back to an upvote :)
Cmd-F or Ctrl-F to search for cities. It’s imperfect, but I found seven hits for my city instantly. I could search neighboring cities and towns the same way.
That assumes you know all the place names of the region where you’re at. Someone that moved recently and/or lives in a tristate area (all of which are in different state regions in my case according to that map) is just faced with a very hostile design.
To add to this comment, it’s not hard to find any of this information. “States grouped into areas” scroll to find your state, or again ctrl+f. “Hard to find cities” thankfully living in my area and being somewhat familiar with said area I can scroll down the list and find farmers in my general area. Short of putting in my address and searching for ‘closest to’ which I hate anyway, this isn’t as bad an interface as op suggests.
I’m still going to say it’s just not great design; it presents you a large map that is not interactable in any way, then below that are bits of that map again with ordinary hyperlinks below for each state and/or region. Just let people click on the first map, or just ditch it entirely.
Once you’ve clicked on a state, you get a list of paragraph format entries sorted in the most useless way: alphabetically by business name.
Who is this website for?
I agree whole heartedly, it could be done better. I’m just saying it isn’t complete garbage and if a little confusing still usable.
It’s for the creator of the website, so they can virtue signal while producing something of dubious quality. Most of these farms are already discover-able on better, more comprehensive indexes.
Name one?
at least you have something my state doesn’t even have anything lmao, it goes to a boilerplate page that gives little info
My state (big ag state) has a whopping 3 and 2 of those are hemp. The one that isn’t just hemp doesn’t have an area listed, just the state.
I mean I’m glad there are any… but yeah, not a super great resource for some areas lol
Region 5; Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin. Why are Ohio and Wisconsin grouped with the same link?
I imagine for the same reason Iowa and Nebraska are on the same page. https://blackfarmersindex.com/reg-7-iowa-and-nebraska
Wisconsin and Nebraska have such a small list that they’d be a waste of a page, I guess.
I kind of figured that was the reason, but seems like such a weak reason.
I would really like an Imperfect Foods replacement. Originally, IF was scratch and dent ugly veggies on discount with some consignment items. Post covid, prices crept up and then you had to pick and choose to get a deal, but you could still get a good box for under $40 every 2 wks that also included things like farro and yogurt. Misfit Marketplace bought them out and it took on a Whole Foods by mail vibe. Double to triple the regular grocery store prices. It would be $80+/week for the same box content which is galling. And it’s not the groceries, it’s MM. Who is paying $3 for 1 cucumber? $4 for 2 apples? $8 for a single pound of grapes or a pint of blueberries?
New potential produce sources are most welcome.
I had to drop Imperfect Food as well from the same problems. It was just more expensive than I needed. I haven’t found a replacement yet unfortunately. We are now just buying food as needed. I have been interested in a CSA but haven’t done it yet
The unbagged produce was fresher than grocery store and didn’t rot on the shelf in 3 days like post COVID produce from the grocery store tends to do.
So this post has potential.
Well, only 2 within reasonable distance. One only sells microgreen kits. The other appears to be a supplier for restaurants, etc.
I zipped them an email to ask about private sales. But, definitely nothing on their website about sales and shipping to the public.
So every “farm” in my region is actually a community plot you can rent space in or a non profit outreach…no farms to purchase from.
So no asian farms, no spanish farms, no middle eastern farms?
Why just black farms? Doesn’t this lend itself to the trope of black people being farmhands?
Black farmers in the US have a particular history, what with chattel slavery and independent black farmers in particular being targeted for hostile takeovers and anti-competitive behavior from racists running big AG conglomerates in ways that other ethnic and cultural groups in the US have not faced.
There ya go, you can make a site for each of those. Use promo code ImATroll for 0% off.
We must stay divided or we might notice that we’re losing the class war.
Owning a farm is not in any way the same as being farmhands.
I think we should come up with a term for the kind of people to whom the color of a person’s skin is this important.
Do you think there might be a reason their skin color is relevant under the Trump administration?
Edit: Interestingly, your post history shows that you are very interested in skin color yourself.
I didn’t see anything too egregious in their post history to get worked up over. Some downvotable opinions, sure (in America, a lifted truck is almost guaranteed to be indicative of racism, or at least republicanism.) but not really anything to be mad about.
I’m not worked up over anything. I’m just noting that they bring up the subject of race multiple times in the couple of pages of their history I looked at.
It’s a big subject at the moment. Palestinians v Israel, China v uyghurs, trump v everybody, it’s not unreasonable to mention these things in context. According to their posts, it seems they’re from Finland. I’ve never been, and don’t pretend to know a whole lot about Finland other than their war with Russia and simo hayha (due to my US army background) but I would be surprised if I found out that Finland had an issue with race, honestly. So does talking about race during a time when race is a big world issue automatically make them racist? No, it’s a discussion topic, and they never said anything racist. Don’t press that button unnecessarily, or it becomes meaningless.
I never called anyone a racist. In fact, I was the one being called a racist for posting this in the first place.
Ehhhh you did go through their post history looking for something to be mad about because you disagreed with something they said. Neither of you have said anything racist. We need to remember who the bad people really are, those who do, or wish harm on others. Let’s try consolidating instead of separating.
Again, I never called anyone a racist.
I only went back 5 days, maybe that’s a limitation for my mobile app, but yeah I also couldn’t find cause to say they can’t stop talking about race.
Interestingly, your post history shows that you are very interested in skin color yourself.
Feel free to dig thru it and post it here for everyone to see.
That sounds like a silly thing to do when it’s publicly available… and notable how often you want to talk about race.
I’ll save them the trouble then and out myself here by posting the only other mention of skin color on my entire post history. Clearly I can’t stop talking about race.
Concluding that someone is a lesser human because of their skin color seems just as illogical to me as calling someone a racist because they drive a lifted truck. These things are completely unrelated.
Who here is concluding that? Can you please present anyone here concluding that?
They’re saying that quote is the only other instance of them talking about skin color in their post history, not that it’s relevant to this thread or the people in it.
5 day old account and you’re posting like crazy all over the place.
Now where have I seen that type of behaviour before…
I think you are conflating where the “importance” has come from. A person can recognize that skin color does not matter. They can also recognize that the system they live in places a huge importance on skin color through endemic systems that have been in place for decades. How do you counteract an unbalanced system? By sticking your fingers in your ears and going “it doesn’t matter” or by seeking out those who are trying to make a change?
Unfortunately, for some folks it’s never enough. Why only black folks? Why not disabled folks? Why not indigenous folks? Etc. But you have to start somewhere - and many people aren’t even trying. My point is that projects like this are a start. They’re not going to solve every issue but they’re trying to make a difference and I think that’s neat.
I wouldn’t agree with “sticking fingers in my ears and saying it doesn’t matter” being a fair representation of what I’m trying to say here.
I would claim that in the case of person’s skin color we truly shouldn’t care about it any more than we care about the color of their hair or eyes. It’s it’s a description of appearance, not a reflection of who they are. If we want to live in a world where this is the case, then my argument is that paying more attention to it is not the way to go. I’m sure the people behind this have good intentions but it’s the method I disagree with here.
Despite what the Fascists would erase from history and science, critical race theory is like the theory of gravity, it’s absolutely correct and all around us.
African Americans have never been made whole since their ancestors were brought here as slaves. They’ve never been the primary or equal beneficiaries of the generational windfalls that have occurred here. They’ve been sabotaged at every step. Ever heard of Tulsa?
It’s ridiculous how many people shriek get over it when Jim Crow is still well in living memory. When African American families get substantial reparations for what was done to their families over and over generationally, so never, then you’d have a leg to stand on.
I apologize for implying that.
You’re right that we shouldn’t care, but how do we help those who have been disenfranchised if we don’t identify them? Advocacy isn’t about caring about appearance over character, it’s is about shining a light on systematically disenfranchised groups of people so that we can support them.
Anti-white nationalists? Or anti-MAGAts?
Just spitballin here…
It’s not about their skin color to me. It’s more about a likeliness that they’re not a Republican. Yes, I know, there are black Republicans, but it’s less likely.
There is greater demonstration of community among non white people. As such, theres a built in hook not just for saying hello to a stranger, but for coming together to organize something like this. I think that’s more likely where it’s coming from than what you’re thinking.
Either way, I’d like a better veggie source for the things we don’t grow ourselves.
Thank you! I did not know that. Last news that I heard about black farmers was about then getting screwed by massive ag conglomerates.
I don’t think this reads as what it was probably intended initially…
