I think the problem isn’t that we eat meat. It’s that we torture the animals and have them live in deplorable conditions before we eat them. If we all hunted or raised our own animals or had the animals live in decent conditions it would be less of an issue for most REASONABLE vegans and vegetarians. I used to be vegan and vegetarian a decade so I get it a bit. I hated it when anyone would bitch about other people’s food choices, but then complain when they did the same to them for their food choices. Both sides I mean. I had some non-veggies once they found out I didn’t eat meat would attack me for it. When I did start eating meat again some vegans and vegetarians would attack me for it.
I know that the industry is horrific. I have battled internally with becoming a vegan. And this isn’t a but, it’s just something i thought about once when thinking about the argument that whilst in nature, animals eat other animals, its not the same as what we do as we farma dn torture animals to get the meat…
Its cats…
Cats torture their prey…
They play with it, and maim it and keep it alive for as long as possible so they can chase it, for fun…
And sometimes they just fucking leave it there when it dies.
And we love cats. Even vegans love cats.
And that sort of makes me laugh a bit.
For me, I think the difference is that I have the means and opportunity to reduce (an incredibly minor amount, I know) the suffering of animals everywhere by not eating meat, so I feel somewhat an obligation to do so.
Whereas a cat does not have the knowledge or information or desire to make that sort of decision making. So I love them anyway…I just don’t let them outside so they can’t murder every living thing nearby for fun.
To each his own, that’s just my personal impetus to be meat free.
Most of the time, adults don’t torture their prey. Kittens aren’t born with the ability to hunt, and their instincts need to develop too. So the mom brings home live prey for the kittens to play with. Sometimes adults keep this behaviour.
Absolutely, the meat industry needs to be clamped down on hard
But, there are plenty of vegans who also rail against alternatives like lab grown beef which is still meat but bypasses all the problems with the meat industry of today
I had thought that veganism was more of a beliefs thing: to not eat products of exploitation, but then I heard the honey thing. The honey thing might be just from an overbearing vegan, or I just don’t know the details, but beekeeping just looks so peaceful
OTOL honey thing?
AFAIK many (?, please correct) vegans don’t eat honey, and that’s consistent with most of the people I know IRL. It tends to sway between “I try not to eat animal products” and “harvesting honey hurts/exploits bees”, the latter of which may be true for industry-scale honey, but I don’t see why local honey isn’t an option
So we domesticated fire, that’s one step out of the swamp and steppes.
Then there was agriculture and animal husbandry, we became sedentary.Writing developed, accelerating growth in the arts, math and engineering, the sciences… we had domesticated knowledge and memory - data storage.
Before we knew it, the printing press popped up and soon after we domesticated something abstract and invisible, awesome and truly fundamental - electromagnetism. That’s is the big game changer right there.
We have figured out our physical place in the universe.
We can image distant supermassive black holes, we have mapped the farthest, faintest reaches of the visible universe using the oldest light there is - the Cosmic Microwave Background (which started out as orange light 13.7 billion years ago).We are now in the process of harnessing sunlight and the wind; the genome; we can now even perform data operations using quantum superimposed electron states, harnessing the subatomic wave function itself.
Surely we can now domesticate cruelty-free protein chemistry. So many steps away from the swamp and steppes already, so far we can’t turn and go back again. What’s one more step?
Don’t forget where we came from and what shaped us as species
Oh wow OP, I didn’t know you were a hunter!
Or are you just a sweaty fatso that posts trash boomer memes and gets meat delivered and wrapped in plastic?
Yeah, thought so.
Aww someone got their fefes hurt in c/shitpost lol, lmao even
Who, you? Because I called you a fatso?
🪞but if that’s what you need to tell yourself to sleep at night I won’t stop ya
What do I need to tell myself to sleep at night?
Can you even construct a sentence that makes sense, follow logic for more than 1 reply? Or is the sack of fat on your forehead is encroaching on your brain?
Get angry at a shitpost ✅
Attempt at personal attack ✅
Attack on Grammer ✅
Second attempt at personal attack ✅I just need 1 more for my troll bingo card!
- You posted rage-bait shit post “attacking” Vegans
- Not even mentioned grammar, just your logic (lmao, you proved my point) (also, it’s ‘grammar’, btw)
- Don’t dish it if you can take it
Second attack on Grammer ✅ BINGO BINGO BINGO
As far as “rage bait” goes, not really, everyone else here didn’t resort to troll tactics. You’re the only one who came in here raging about it LMAO
The survival of the fittest narrative was debunked almost as soon as it existed, and that debunking is what forms the ideological basis of mutual aid. That people continue to spread this toxic misinformation over a century later is a testament to the unfortunate tenacity of lies.
Even in the most brutal depths of the natural world, cooperation is still the overarching basis of ecosystem health. It’s known in Permaculture, for instance, that too much competition results in resource depletions.
A vegan ethic is inline with a growing awareness and need for us all to learn to expand our capacities of empathy and compassion, from those who are most like us, to those who are most unlike us.
On the topic of wilderness areas, vegans are divided on what the right approaches are. Some of us compare natural biomes to sovereign nations - while we dislike the harms that occur in those places, we feel a need to allow other species their independence to have their self-determination, if for no other reason than the fact that nature is the basis of maintaining a habitable planet, and interference in ecosystems should only be done with the utmost care.
But there are other vegans who do believe strongly that we should be intervening in wild places as well, with the goals of eliminating predation all together, and managing wildlife populations in more ethical ways.
It’s a highly contentious topic to be honest.
I feel like this is the “attack helicopter” joke of veganism
Let the Bullshit Bingo begin!
The human brain is fueled by about 20% of your caloric intake. We’re evolved to be omnivorous. This isn’t prescriptive but descriptive. It’s going to take development to make vegan food delicious and something we want to eat (and then all the other features we want out of food: cheap, storage-safe, easy to prepare, etc.)
For those of us who still eat a meat diet, it usually takes a chef to make something actually enjoyable from strictly vegetables. Otherwise, we’re used to receiving oddly-spiced bland mush from our vegan friends. But we could do better if we were putting billions into it, and not another more-addictive cheeto.
But we live entrenched in capitalism, so no one is going to take this seriously until we’re already dropping dead from natural disasters and famine.
No idea what you are talking about. I’m not even vegan, but I can make a delicious vegan meal without even trying. All my vegan friends make very tasty food, too. No need for billions.
Wow, I asked for the bullshit and you seriously delivered! Not sure if I should take the time to reply to this, because would it even matter?
One thing, though: Everything you eat is vegan, except for the animal tissue, the milk-stuff and eggs. We don’t need capitalism to invest in more vegan meat alternatives, we fight it by eating plant based! No junk, just delicious fruits, nuts, legumes and vegetables, like we always did. It’s cheap, great for your body and for our suffering planet as well!
Omnivores? We were lucky apes who found out that heat kills enough parasites and bacteria that live in meat. Dogs are the real omnivores, pigs are, too. They eat a rotting squirrel if the feel like it! We die if our bleach-cleaned chicken filet wasn’t in the freezer for a couple of hours.
Do you know what elephants and hippos eat all day … damn, I just started replying.In light of the west’s heavily animal-centric diets resulting in most of the top causes of death in these places, it’s not exactly accurate to call us omnivores. The centered on whole plant foods our diets are, the better off we are. Animal flesh, dairy, and eggs, at the very least, cannot be consumed without increasing progression and risk of cardiovascular disease and diabetes (Ignoring a host of other harmful effects like cancer and autoimmune disorders, which is more contentious).
It would be more accurate to say that we are primarily herbivores, but with an incomplete and dangerous emergency system for omnivory.
Humans “i dont rape because i respect other humans”. Meanwhile nature …
And in before “but i need to eat”, you dont need to eat animal products. You can have a healthy life with a vegan diet, arguably an even healthier life. And to go back to my original point, just because you need to cum, doesnt mean that you have the right to cause suffering and death to other sentient beings.
Just masturbate. Just go vegan.
But what about my sharp canine teeth? Check mate.
Look at this carnivore devouring their prey.
Those are to hold on to your victim more tightly
Telling boys to just go masturbate got us the Immorten Joe’s Warboys † that are the alt-right, that got Trump into power twice. The boys we told to literally go fuck themselves when they raged over their sexual frustration got us the army of militants and voters behind the white Christian nationalist movement. I was among them in the 1980s, when the society gave a meager few more fucks about them than they do in the twenty-first century.
I suspect similar movements exist through Europe, which is generally rejecting neoliberalism for fascist-thick movements towards one-party autocracy.
No, I don’t have a solution, and I’ve been working on it for thirty years. Christianity’s proscription against sex (later limited to non-reproductive sex) figures largely into the problem and it’s served so far as a sufficient distraction from class consciousness and effective response to industry’s effect on climate, and the imminent climate crisis.
We don’t have a way to let our young guys sow their wild oats, while we’re careening towards multiple great filters we are unprepared to navigate.
I know: 🧶📌📇
Maybe even: 🐰🎩🫖☕
And yet, very few people think about it, still. Those who do ponder the angry-young-men problem discount them as ineligible or feel they are too repugnant to civilized folk to consider. I’ve heard otherwise rational content creators actually say (I paraphrase) these guys were mistreated as kids and are now a societal problem. But they suck, so fuck those guys.
It might be a failing of the human species itself, that we are compelled to cast our young men out the way gorillas cast out their adolescent females (but welcome strange females), and capitalism intentionally only has limited seats where they can pick themselves up, so the system teaches them from the beginning to be aggressive, ruthless and transactional. Not to get completely nihilist, but maybe our capacity for civilization is limited and we just can’t overcome the paradigms that served us as migratory bands of hunter-gatherers.
In the meantime, our boys are taught they suck in our Christianity-heavy abstinence-only sex-ed, ‡ from which they descend into the incel movement, the manosphere, gamergaters, etc and from there into the transnational white power movement. Our society gave Trump his instant army, and it was ready for him the moment Trump went into politics. And our lack of interest or concern about the new batch of warboys we churn our from the US education system every year, is going to literally kill us all.
Just go vegan is going to end the same way, especially since the food industry cares not about actual nutrition but profit. Taking a page from Fourth International Posadism, we may have to end capitalism before we can create an ethical food production system (probably incorporating farming invertebrates as well as vegetables), but the problem right now is not what’s the end result ( Fully Automated Gay Space Communism ) but how the heck we get there and not crash and burn with the global ecology.
Totally open to ideas, but I’m not the guy you have to convince.
† Not to be confused with Warboyz of W4K fame.
‡ Twenty six states mandate abstinence-only sex ed, that stuff that teaches girls they are chewing gum, or someother one-use safety-sealed metaphor, and that boys aren’t allowed to think about sex until they have a salaried job and a ring. Seriously, this is still what is taught.
Three states mandate comprehensive sex ed: The west coast. And none of them require discussion of consent. (Some teachers include it anyway, as an elective topic). Of course, if we demanded opt-in consent in our sexual relationships, we might demand opt-in sex in our other contracts as well, say our jobs, our devices, our software, etc.
Imagine being this much of a naive child.
https://kellyjonesnutrition.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/manure-lagoon-1024x608.jpg
Non-vegan, hearing that vegans exist: “Hey, these people are different from me! I hate them!”
“Hey guys, check it out. I jus came up with this HILARIOUS owl-meme!”
Where we came from is less important than where we are going. The problems with veganism are not that they don’t eat animals, in fact I don’t think the problem is with veganism at all but with moral imperatives in general that promote black and white, oppositional political positioning. But moral imperatives are one of the most popular and effective rhetorical methods to make a point (and split opposition) so we are just kind of raised in it. If you’re someone who has strong opinions you learn to express them in a certain way.
But veganism is good, but primitivist “return to nature” types have a dubious track record aka they tend to be chuds or on their way to chuddening. “Retvrn to the past” is a conservative talking point, but what separates us from nature is capitalism, not veganism.
Veganism is not return to nature. Quite the opposite. And it’s definitely not a return to the past. Veganism is a modern view of society where we look at the possibilities we have today, granted to us by technology and science, and decide to spare the lives of animals. We have a surplus of food and supplements that makes meat consumption less healthy, efficient and ethical than plant based. It’s was virtually impossible to do be 100% plant based 100 years ago in full health.
Wait that isn’t what I meant at all, I was contrasting the “return to nature” view with the vegan view.
I tried editing for clarity
This is for real shit post
Veganism isn’t about respect for nature. It is a philosophy and way of living against animal cruelty and exploitation.
Congratulations on a legit shitpost.
Whoosh.
E: For those downvoting, remember this is a shitpost and some level of inaccuracy is almost required. It’s the shit part of the post. Like, c’mon guys…
Vegans have to deal with arguments like this but unironically on the daily. That hits a nerve, wether it’s meant as a shitpost or not. Don’t take it personally.
Mayhaps it is the vegans who need to avoid taking things personally
Yeah, it’s totally unreasonable to get tired of hearing the same shitty comments and warmed over “jokes” every day.
It can be both
And it gotten so bad, that some people will accuse you being a vegan if you’re not doing keto/carnivore diet, and thus an extremely militant and unpleasant one.
I wonder how people arguing with them know they are vegans… 🤔
Ooh I know that one! They are in a social situation that involves food and the vegan politely declines an animal product. Then they make an anti vegan joke and the vegan politely disagrees. Have been there many times.
Really? Because I have seen quite a few times vegan claiming that eating meat is a “murder” when people were trying to enjoy their steaks.
Here on Lemmy one idiot even claimed that cutting sheep wool or something similar is a sexual assault
Here’s a video on wool, but content warning, it is graphic despite blurring.
Is wool cutting a sexual assault according to you?
Have you seen how wool is actually collected? It’s quite violent.
Are you one of the idiots claiming sheep are sexually attacked during wool cutting?
You know mate you get people with extreme opinions in all walks of life.
No doubt about it, but I am yet to see someone who eats meat calling for vegans to be forcibly fed meat - and I have seen vegans saying that eating meat should be forbidden.
Have you ever tried to not eat in front of people ever? Turns out it’s pretty hard to do. Sometimes, if you’re nice to people, you get invited to go out to eat to a place. Often those places have no vegan options, and you have to explain why you can’t eat there so people don’t just think you’re blowing them off constantly. We don’t just go around telling everyone we’re vegan like all the hate memes like to say.
Most vegans I’ve met, myself included, don’t pick fights with people about veganism. We just live by example. It’d be cool if more people went vegan, but arguing with people about doing it doesn’t help. Doing that is like trying to push religion on people or make people experience empathy. It isn’t easy to go vegan (getting easier at least). Food is tied to a lot of people’s culture who have a hard time relearning how to cook/eat and make generational recipes or comfort foods they’ve always eaten.
Tell them to find a vegan inclusive place next time and go anyway, the animal is already dead and being a patron this one time to satisfy a friend and have a good time is fine
You also have to keep in mind that it sucks to be a vegan sharing a meal with an omni. Even with access to plant-based options, we’re still required to be surrounded by what we see as gore, and people consuming gore.
You know how smokers can’t smell smoke as well as nonsmokers? When I stopped consuming animals I was surprised to find that all meat, no matter how fresh, smells rotten. And everybody who consumes animals smells faintly like rotting corpses - especially during and right after eating.
By putting a post on the interwebs making fun of them and waiting for them to arrive? Not what you are implying, but also a quite effective method.
Lmao. Look at OPs comments. They actually believe this shit. Based on all the other shitposts they post here and all throughout lemmy, they probably picked it up on reddit or some other trash site, thought it was funny, and came here to share.
