Summary
Trump plans to lift the Biden administration’s freeze on supplying 2,000-pound bombs to Israel and reverse sanctions against Israeli settlers.
Good thing all those “Genocide Joe” voters abstained from the election
Something bad could have happened to those Palestinians
Good job
Getting that Final Solution to the Palestinian genocide.
It did totally and completely under his watch. Gaza was holocausted under the Presidency of 1 Joseph Robbinette Biden Jr. Aka Genocide Joe.
He gave them over 14,000 (FOURTEEN THOUSAND) 2000lb bombs that they used to flatten Gaza. There are ample pictures. Go look. Go look at the bad GENOCIDE JOE did to the Gazans in the name of America.
Or did you only start paying attention to Gaza when Trump was inaugurated?
careful dude, you’re on .world
Congrats on electing Trump to turbogenocide
That’s what I say to all the braindeads who voted for the worst presidential candidate in history Ms. Holocaust Harris. Thank you for throwing your vote away and electing Donald Trump.
Iconic name you’ve got there.
Gracias
and now it’s about to get even fucking worse. it was a choice between kamala harris and fucking trump. Yeah, both suck. But one of them will actively make things way worse.
88% destroyed.
If you drink 88% of a glass of water and someone else drinks the other 12%, who had more water?
you think it’s going to stop at Gaza? Guarantee, israel will destroy the west bank next. and trump will provide even more weapons than biden ever did.
You may be correct, but maybe now the TDS democrats will join the rest of the anti-genocide movement because their guy isn’t overseeing the genocide anymore. They have the bad guy they want now.
Or they are going try to mock and belittle people who didn’t fall in line to vote for with THE WORST PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE IN HISTORY who clearly had no intent to stop the evil destruction. Their imaginary scenarios become the dogma they are blinded by.
i actually agree with you. the dews are worse than useless. they do literally nothing and field garbage candidates and wonder why they lose. we need a better party.
Oh, quit pretending like you care. If you did, you would support the only party to have a elected as Palestinian-American, and you would listen to what she has to say. But instead of supporting her, you glazed for Trump.
November 8, 2023
22 Democrats join Republicans in a successful vote to censure Rashida Tlaib.
The whole house gave Netanyahu standing ovation after standing ovation while Tlaib sat there in protest. That’s some incredible support.
Do you know anything about the situation at hand or you grasping at straws here?
Oh, quit pretending like you care.
Quit projecting your callousness onto others.
You first
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To the Muslim MAGA voters, that’s 2000 lbs, multiples, of Fuck Around and Find Out.
Trump has delivered a ceasefire that was always clamored for.
Both Trump and Harris were pro Israel. Why are third party voters getting gaslighted for Trump’s actions. I didn’t vote for him. And Harris would have been more of the same. Worse/better doesn’t matter. Both backed Israel and sending weapons.
Living in a world without nuance would mean experiencing life in a stark, black-and-white manner. Every situation, person, and idea is categorized as purely good or bad, leaving no room for complexity, shades of meaning, or understanding of different perspectives; A world where everything is simplified to extremes, leading to misinterpretations and a difficulty navigating more complex situations and interpersonal relationships. If worse/better doesn’t matter, there can be no difference between killing 1,000 people or killing 100,000 people.
Keep telling yourself that, buttercup.
Both of them are pro-Israel, but only one of them is sending Israel 2,000 lbs bombs. How can you not see that that is flatly worse?
After Genocide Joe and Holocaust Harris, we have Destroying Donnie. Too bad #destroyingdonnie won’t be amplified by Xitter like the previous two was, to try to sway voters.
Make no mistake if they think twisting the algorithm is going to make the voices of the left less disruptive they have no fucking clue what it is like to fight people who believe in their beliefs because they ernestly think they will help and save people.
We were going at Biden and Harris with kid gloves on because we knew Trump was going to be much worse, but the kid gloves are off and leftists will do everything up to and including dying for what we think is right… because we aren’t full of shit like the cowards in power are.
I dare them to kick us out of social media conversations, we are just going to become more radicalized into taking direct action instead of asking nicely.
Doing the right thing is the one thing that bullies will never understand
My empathy DEMANDS action. I’ll lose my mind otherwise.
Fascists will never see you coming out of the night in your acts of resistance because to predict your actions consistently requires actually understanding what makes you tick, and to do that requires recognizing at some level that you have something they do not, integrity in your beliefs, whereas their mental landscape is a barren monoculture of childish hate and bullshit.
I’ve been masking since 2020, neighbors think I’m pro Trump, oh if they knew…well if they knew, i’m sure my windows would be gone already.
“Oh your flag on your truck got stolen last night?!! what scum!” 😱
“We did it Patrick, we saved Palestine!” - Tankies right now
Where is this take simultaneously coming from for everyone?
Guys. NOBODY. THOUGHT. TRUMP. WAS. BETTER. Now we can finally acknowledge that the American so-called “left” political party is so obscenely fucked that they’re complicit in genocide? Literally the hallmark of Nazi Germany? Perhaps we as a people do not really have a lot of choice going on, and impotently choosing between two fascist parties election after election is not going to gradually bring us to democratic reform?
Trump is so much worse than Harris and Biden though. He lifted this ban, recognizes the settlements and will prevent any other free election that could better things in the future. So if you didnt vote for Harris you didnt just completely doom palestinians but also your country.
He lifted this ban,
I’ll say it again. Biden sent FOURTEEN THOUSAND of these bombs already - and that was as of 7 months ago. Enough to literally wipe out half of the population of Gaza.
recognizes the settlements
The fact that you’d say this without specifying which ones really speaks to how little you know about this. The Golan Heights, which the Biden admin already calls as “Israel”? East Jerusalem & the West Bank, which the Clinton admin bantustan-ized in the Oslo Accords and which every subsequent admin recognizes the Palestine side of even less? The Biden administration does not recognize the international consensus on “Israel” having the pre-1967 borders. They don’t recognize Palestine, at odds with the international consensus. The entire country was literally formed by ethnic cleansing in the first place. The Biden administration did like three token sanctions on random West Bank settlers, with no recognition that state officials were behind the policy of annexation and the complicity of the military in it.
And what “free election”? 8 years of Biden & Obama admins came and went. The last election in Palestine was under BUSH, and the official U.S. policy, after Hamas (which is a political party, mind you) won a majority of seats in the parliamentary runoff election, was to support the Palestinian Authority in overthrowing the results of the election in an illegal coup, resulting in the civil war that left Hamas in power in Gaza. The U.S. rejection of the election results has been the norm across Bush 2, Obama, Trump 1, and Biden. Not to mention that the entire premise of an election - democracy - is at odds with the fundamentally Jewish supremacist nature of “Israel”, a state founded on ethnic “purism”, exclusion, apartheid and genocide of an indigenous population, and endless regional expansionist warfare. The U.S. policy is “we accept a complete racial divide and military occupation based on the supremacy of that race in the region, but oh yeah, we’d love if the underclass might eventually have elections or something…I mean, as long as they vote for who we want”.
So if you didnt vote for Harris you didnt just completely doom palestinians but also your country.
You think because, out of all the non-Trump voters, your group was in the majority, that everyone who didn’t side with you must have been wrong. But you voted for an absolute monster and psychopath, as willfully complicit in genocide as Biden (who you would have voted for also) was. You people split the vote from candidates who aren’t complicit in mass murder, and you still have the gall to accuse everyone else of being the problem. The person you voted for was so far beneath the standards of a free and decent society that some of us couldn’t even stomach it (and not even enough to swing the election, mind you).
It’s always the refrain of people doing something horribly immoral, that anybody taking the higher road is just doing “virtue signalling” or “preaching their moral purity”. This is just rationalization. You cannot confront your own faults, the deep, horrific faults of your society, so you blame the few lone dissenters who realize that absolute fundamental change is the only path out of this. The 1% of people who voted De la Cruz or Stein did not decide the outcome of this election. 98% of you voted for an absolute monster.
Now what is the point of a representative democracy? We pick the candidate that will do the best by us. Right? You have all completely abandoned that premise. Every election, a D and an R run, one of them wins, they do absolutely whatever they want, and as long as you think the Republicans are even 0.0001% worse, you’ll vote for the D. You never abandon that group. This completely sacrifices any power the people have, because we don’t have federal referendums, we don’t have non-FPTP elections, we don’t have recalls, we don’t have no confidence votes, we don’t have null votes, we ONLY get to vote in these elections, and our single power to control this system is completely neutered. All they have to do is find a single issue where they even SOUND better than the Republicans on, and they can be as absolutely corrupt as they want.
Why do you not blame the ~48% Democrat voters for not gathering behind a candidate who isn’t a war criminal? Or the ~49% Trump voters? Does it not cause any self-reflection that the crime of all crimes, genocide, is no longer a red line for you in a politician? What is your long-term strategy to bring this genocidal system back under the control of the people - voting for the people who are operating it, without question, forever? Cause I don’t think that’s gonna work.
Because EVERY discussion had like fifteen tankies going “BuT YoU NeEd A REasON fOr Us tO voTe thAt IsN’T TrUMp!11”
And the disproof of that argument is Trump sending the 2,000 pound “bunker buster” bombs?
You know how many Biden sent? FOURTEEN. THOUSAND: https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/ That’s as of last June.
Those bombs can wipe out a hundred people (and did, over and over). You know how many fighting members Hamas (Al Qassam) was supposed to have had as of Oct 7? Forty thousand. Do the math. And then go take a look at the pictures coming out of Gaza this week.
I don’t know how you guys don’t get this. Biden’s policy on Palestine was “no holds barred genocide with lip service otherwise”. Trump is the same thing minus the lip service. I think you all need to take a break from talking about this until you’ve figured out what the hell is going on. Because seriously, if you don’t even know what’s happening, you’re just reacting in fight or flight mode, it’s like you’re pouring water on an electric fire.
And honestly - your whole depiction of what the “tankies” are saying - are we supposed to rely on your mocking portrayal of them? What did they actually say? Who are we talking about specifically? What was their full argument?
Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t Biden already lift them?
He blocked the 2,000 lb. bombs and the 500 lb. bombs. Then he lifted the restriction on the 500 lb. bombs.
After sending fourteen fucking thousand of them.
I thought he slightly delayed one shipment? At one point I recall Biden removing the restriction as well. I am genuinely wondering whether there was even still a restriction on 2000 pound bombs since Biden recently sent another 8 billion in bombs to Israel.
This was exactly the point of him doing it like this. Notice your confusion on the specifics. People hear about the restriction, but not the lifting. Creates a fog of ambiguity, US media doesn’t report on the actual arm shipment statistics, Democrats get the illusion he’s actually doing something good. Meanwhile, the bombs he sent were enough to demolish Gaza - and did. Already. I think the last statistic was “88% destroyed”, though that’s from memory.
88% destroyed is such a weird ass nazi dog whistle. Not about you, just ironic. Of course it’s 88%.
Gotta be something in between 87 and 89. I don’t know, that was the last stat I heard ~yesterday morning.
I don’t doubt it, I was just referring to the irony of 88. Don’t get the downvotes.
Because you’re calling that statistic a Nazi dog whistle, and that means you’re saying it’s fake / fabricated and pro-Nazi propaganda somehow. It may not be what you intended, but it is the meaning of the phrasing you used.
hey pro-Palestinian lemmings! where y’all at?
this is why you wouldn’t vote for Harris, right? when does he stop the killing again?
#when does it stop??
No one said Trump would stop it. We said that Biden/Harris shouldn’t be enabling it.
And that made centrists very, very angry.
Trump actually delivered a ceasefire.
Name does not check out.
I think of the millions of “pro-Palestinian lemmings”, there were all of like five that said Trump would help. Everyone else looked soberly at the bipartisan support for genocide, which you seem unwilling to acknowledge.
I think the tally at this point is about 30 billion dollars worth of arms sent to “Israel” since Oct '23. 99% of that under Biden. Breaking domestic and international law in doing so. That is the largest foreign benefactor of the U.S., a fundamentally apartheid state engaged in genocide for 77 years, more brutally and unashamedly than ever before since '23. Again, this is violating the Leahy Law, U.S. domestic prohibitions on the commission or complicity in genocide, the UN Genocide Convention, likely the Geneva Conventions, and other international law. I would love for someone with your stance to explain why Biden engaged in this, because I think you’re just floundering trying to describe this situation without that key piece of information.
Hope that helps. Not sure why you are looking to excuse complicity in genocide by drawing a D/R division where there really is not one. IMO what you’re doing in posting this is extremely immoral and I urge you to reconsider your views.
P.S.:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28
WASHINGTON, June 28 (Reuters) - The Biden administration has sent to Israel large numbers of munitions, including more than 10,000 highly destructive 2,000-pound bombs and thousands of Hellfire missiles, since the start of the war in Gaza, said two U.S. officials briefed on an updated list of weapons shipments.
Between the war’s start last October and recent days, the United States has transferred at least 14,000 of the MK-84 2,000-pound bombs, 6,500 500-pound bombs, 3,000 Hellfire precision-guided air-to-ground missiles, 1,000 bunker-buster bombs, 2,600 air-dropped small-diameter bombs, and other munitions, according to the officials, who were not authorized to speak publicly.
As someone who’s actually been following the individual arm shipments, the implication that there is any difference is literally insane. Biden was shoveling coal into the genocide engine as fast as humanly possible.
Yeah! If both of them are bad on this one thing then it shouldn’t matter if the worse option goes in! Yeah!
When does STAR voting start in your state blue conservative?
What is star voting?
Palestinian here, not in the US. So Harris would have done genocide but without more 2000 pound bombs. Trump does it with them.
Your voters couldn’t decide against genocide, they could only decide with which weapons it will be continued. You guys have a problem.
Edit: greetings to the Lemmy Hasbara division. Responses are kinda wild, didn’t expect this. I should post more here.
Biden already sent 14,000 of those bombs so you’re wrong. Both candidates are pro genocide.
I was hopeful about the peace deal with the Muslim countries signing on but as usual our politicians flood everything with shit so no one knows that’s up or down.
Does anyone decide against genocide when it suits them? There’s some irony in both Palestine and Israel supporters whining to the Democrats about not opposing the respective genocides hard enough while ignoring their Hamas and Netanyahu doing it to the other side. Take the log out of your own eye before complaining about the speck in the other’s.
On a rational level, we all need to oppose killing of civilians and children. But man, it’s hard to convince people to care when the people you’re trying to save won’t help themselves.
I don’t think I understand your comment. You think it’s hard to side against genocide? Because that’s what most of us are doing here.
He’s an enlightened centrist, ignore him. The fact that people think hamas (which are bad, of course) are as bad as the IDF is actually insane.
On a rational level, we all need to oppose killing of civilians and children
He’s right on this point but the rest of his comment is just bothsiding a genocide.
Sorry you had to deal with these types of people in this thread.
الله يوفقك يا صاحبي
And is it working?
Point being, the whole “genocide” thing is useless because people don’t care. No one thinks they’re committing a genocide. If you went to Nazi Germany, they’d tell you the holocaust is not a genocide, it’s a security measure or something like that. Just like you probably don’t look at Oct. 7 as a genocide. It’s the same thing. We’re all human, we’re all easily tricked into being monsters.
You’re mixing up what people say and what they think. Biden and Blinken both denied the war crimes and the genocide, and we have evidence that they knew what it was. Nazi Germany might have spread propaganda about security, but they DEFINITELY knew they were exterminating entire “races”. Maybe not the randos in the streets, but anyone operating in a camp or the government.
Propaganda is not what these people actually believe, it’s the tool they use to give cowards plausible deniability. Those participating actively, and those not stopping it.
Yes, there are people who are in fact monsters.
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you seem pretty mu ha mad about what they said for not being a Muslim…
Oh, who said I am a not?
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so…what’s being Palestinian got to do with your message other than showing your opinion is biased?
also, thanks for giving your broad opinion of a nuanced political system you have little understanding of. Feels good to hear someone blame me for the deaths of people just by doing the only thing I can do.
maybe next time you try to make someone feel like shit you should probably blame them for something they actually did instead of pulling bullshit out of your imagination because it sounds edgy.
Just scrolling through the comments here, people’s takes vary from bad to good, but everyone’s comment is only as long as the text they wrote. Then you jam this huge, not really relevant meme into discussion of an actual life or death issue for millions of people, which is just playing off of a pun on the name “John Goodman”. And your comment isn’t any better. You make a bunch of really off-base, unsubstantiated attacks on the guy you’re replying to. You don’t really seem to understand why they even brought up being Palestinian. You ignore the 100% legitimate criticism that you voted for someone complicit in genocide, brushing it off as “the only thing you could do” (it wasn’t). Then you accuse them of trying to sound “edgy”.
Buddy, your comment is bleeding “trying to sound edgy”. What is this meme doing here? Where is your sense of responsibility or shame? You are joking about a genocide.
Another asshole to the blocklist. Oh what do you know, another lemmy.world fascist.
Nothing like having third party resources blocked by default.
Being biased against Zionists is a good thing.
“Bias” makes it sound like there isn’t a completely impartial case to be made against them. Like the most meticulously documented genocide in human history.
Hey to any Palestinians out there I promise I will never let losers like the above person rest in peace.
thanks person without much to live for.
I’m sure the imaginary people you were talking to would be happy! You can finally dedicate your life to something that can truly help them in their time of need.
how many Palestinians do to plan to save with your brave acts?
Non American here. Both your parties are genocide and apartheid supporters. Simple as that.
Yea, one of the two is more than the other. But you got to come to terms with the fact that your country’s bipartisan effect in the region is kinda evil.
Lol, down vote all you like. I’m just telling the truth.
Yea, one of the two is more than the other.
Not even.
Everyone here agrees with you, dawg… We just understand our country’s political system enough to know which was the correct choice to mitigate that evil.
People made the wrong choice.
You know how we say that Israel is going to continue with apartheid and colonization even if Netanyahu is voted out? And that focusing too much on Netanyahu is sometimes a red herring because Israeli Apartheid is structural and a long term strategic goal of the Israeli establishment? Like, sure Netanyahu accelerates the process and does it shamelessly and publicly, but it’s not as if the process had not been in full swing by both center-left and center-right governments before him, who massively expanded settlements and entrenched the occupation and settlements.
Same logic applies for the US support of Israeli Apartheid. Your system moves faster and more overtly when controlled by your fascist Right. But I’m not going to pretend that your non-fascist Center is not basically moving in the same direction.
Just because your political system puts a gun to your heads every four years, doesn’t mean the rest of us have to buy into the same blackmail. (EDIT: we have other blackmails foisted on us by our own assholes thank you very much.)
Just because your political system puts a gun to your heads every four years, doesn’t mean the rest of us have to buy into the same blackmail.
Yeah but unfortunately for you, you do. Or even worse, you have no say whatsoever.
Grumble grumble. Stupid political realists. Grumble grumble.
Your truth isn’t THE truth buddy
Disprove me. Point me official policies enacted by one of the two US parties that materially opposed Israeli Apartheid and the genocide of Palestinians since Oslo. To make sure I don’t move the goalposts by claiming you cherry pick occasional bleeps, make a strong argument by showing me a consistent trend.
EDIT: added “since Oslo” because we need some start time.
EDIT2: Here’s what ChatGPT has to say about this. It is obviously not the arbiter of truth, but I guess this is common enough knowledge that it has made to the training of LLMs. Not a proof, but a baseline to beat:
Since the Oslo Accords in 1993, both major U.S. political parties—the Democrats and the Republicans—have predominantly supported Israel, often refraining from officially opposing its policies toward Palestinians. While individual politicians within these parties have occasionally criticized Israeli actions, a consistent, party-wide trend of enacting official policies that materially oppose what some describe as Israeli apartheid or the genocide of Palestinians is not evident.
Democratic Party:
Historically, the Democratic Party has maintained strong support for Israel. However, in recent years, a progressive faction within the party has voiced concerns over Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. Notably, members of “The Squad,” including Representatives Rashida Tlaib and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, have condemned Israeli policies. For instance, in October 2023, Tlaib accused Israel of committing genocide, stating, “President Biden, not all America is with you on this one, and you need to wake up and understand. We are literally watching people commit genocide.”
Despite these individual statements, the broader Democratic Party has not adopted official policies that consistently oppose Israeli actions. The party’s platform continues to support a two-state solution without explicitly condemning Israel’s practices. While some Democrats have urged the administration to take a firmer stance, such as the January 2024 letter from 60 Democratic Congressmembers urging Secretary of State Antony Blinken to condemn the forced displacement of Palestinians, these actions represent internal party debates rather than an official, unified policy shift.
Republican Party:
The Republican Party has traditionally exhibited unwavering support for Israel. Under President Donald Trump’s administration, this support intensified, with actions such as recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and moving the U.S. embassy there. The 2024 Republican Party platform reaffirmed the party’s stance to “stand with Israel” and called for the deportation of “pro-Hamas radicals,” indicating a continued strong alliance. WIKIPEDIA
While there have been isolated critiques—such as Trump’s personal criticisms of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu—these do not reflect a broader party policy opposing Israeli actions toward Palestinians. Overall, the Republican Party has not enacted official policies that materially oppose Israel’s treatment of Palestinians.
Conclusion:
In summary, neither the Democratic nor the Republican Party has demonstrated a consistent trend of enacting official policies that materially oppose Israel’s actions toward Palestinians since the Oslo Accords. While individual members within these parties have expressed dissenting views, these have not translated into official party-wide policies or actions.
Ugh. Fuck chat gpt. It’s hallucinating and not a legitimate source.
That being said the uniparty supports capitalism, imperialism, and the unsinkable aircraft carrier known as Israel.
They are actually right
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Harris would have done the same thing
I’m here but I’m not United Statesian so I can’t vote in your elections (even though US foreign influence is so aggressive it feels like I should have a say).
Oh no, I’ve upset some MAGA weirdos. Gonna lose sleep over that.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
When would the killing stop under biden (or harris who was happy to continue his policies)? Pausing one fucking shipment isn’t the amazing stand for life that you think it is. Sure though, blame it all on Palestine and not the democrats refusing to listen to voters (on many issues, not just this one) during a fucking election. I’m sure if the other pro-genocide candidate got in, we’d all be living in fucking paradise.
I hope your path of reasoning works out, but I fear Trump would even allow Israel to throw nuclear weapons at Palestine… just for shits and giggles of his fan base to see if Israel really would.
They will drive Israel to the limit of atrocious crimes they allow … and use this to prosper antisemitic sentiment everywhere else. That’s my prognosis, let’s see who is closer to the truth.
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Well, for one, Harris wouldn’t have had people doing Nazi salutes on stage at her inauguration… But surely that’s unrelated.
I would put forward the argument that Democrat voters are obsessed with appearances and rhetoric, and completely ignore policy that contradicts the ideals they think of themselves as having. You criticize Elon Musk doing Nazi symbolism, great. Count how many comments you’ve posted about that, and then give me the ratio of those to the number of comments you posted criticizing Biden for sending ~30 billion dollars of arms to a genocide. Because, at the end of the day, the biggest problem with Nazism was that it resulted in genocide. You might remember from school that genocide is LITERALLY THE WORST THING EVER BESIDES COMPLETE NUCLEAR ANNIHILATION OF THE PLANET.
I’d like to see a minimum of 1:100 on those comments. I get the feeling it’s less.
No but she would have had people like Liz Cheney on stage with her, who are just the somewhat more polite precursor to nazis and harbor the same essential bigotry just more disguised in the language of the ruling class.
the killing stopped under Biden now.
the killing stopped under Harris now.
#when will the killing stop under Trump?
tell us! when?? we were told it would stop of Harris lost!
Nobody told you the killing would stop if Trump won. The minority of people in the U.S. who have a serious problem with genocide (enough to push them to action) mostly expressed extreme disillusionment at a political system where genocide has become acceptable enough to vote for across a broad majority of the population, and an unwillingness to support anyone responsible.
Your logic of “one genocide supporter would be worse than the other” is not compelling to anyone who’s thought about it for more than a few minutes.
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Biden, not once, ever, stated “full throated support for genocide”.
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At no point did Biden ever, once, tell Israel to continue killing Palestinians. The support was provided for defense from Iran, full stop.
October 25th, 2023: https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-criticizes-extremist-settlers-west-bank-2023-10-25/
August 1st, 2024:
https://www.jns.org/biden-reaffirms-support-for-israeli-self-defense-against-iran-in-call-with-netanyahu/November 26th, 2024:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/biden-says-israel-has-right-to-self-defense-if-hezbollah-or-anyone-else-breaks-deal/What Israel chose to do with that support is on Israel, not Biden.
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What Israel chose to do with that support is on Israel, not Biden.
This is an awfully subjective political opinion to be moderating on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Israel_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war
Are you really trying to claim that USA supported israel without knowing they would have leveled gaza?
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is he president now? no? then it stopped under his control. the. fucking. end.
Trump in now, where’s the outrage, homeboy?
where’s the vitrol?
I don’t think you’ve got it in you to call him out on this. you’ve commented twice already and not once have you blamed Trump for restoring access to 2000 pound bombs.
and you won’t because you’re too weak to admit you were wrong. oh I remember you mother fucker…don’t even think I don’t remember you.
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thanks for pointing that out hark.
remind me again… who’s giving them the 2000 pound bombs?
Spoiler Alert: Biden gave them over FOURTEEN THOUSAND 2000lb bombs.
spoiler alert: Trump is just getting started, its literally his second full day on the job.
If you can ignore what the Biden presidency has done for the last two years, why can’t you ignore what Trump hasn’t done?
Got a little TDS or is the BlueMAGA brainrot claiming you?
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I didn’t vote for Trump. how is it my fault?
you want to pass blame how about you look in a mirror.
I can’t take anyone seriously that praises Russia and wants to nuke new york.
let alone having such a vile comment history for an account that’s less than an hour old.
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Seeing the replies (the ones defending the democrats) I am wondering how you American manage to breathe without dying?
I am honestly convinced that most of you are incapable of walking and chewing gum at the same time.
Careful of projection
Well, would you look at that, third-party protest voters / abstainers / “undecideds”: you saved Palestine. /s
Voting a third party or not supporting the system at all is the good choice here because it’s the only hope to save palestine. You do not save palestine by voting between two parties open about its destruction.
The undecideds are about as dumb as the maggots. They were told, over and over, that they were effectively voting for a fascist. But they couldn’t imagine that the leopard would eat their faces. Now, that fucking guy will make “Genocide Joe” look like a god damn saint.
The undecideds are about as dumb as the maggots.
Supporting and voting murderers with bloods on their hands is much much worst than being dumb and not voting.
Now, that fucking guy will make “Genocide Joe” look like a god damn saint.
Sound like you haven’t seen any footage from inside gaza or you would know that there’s no saints in hell.
Refusing to hold Democrats accountable is also voting for Fascism. If your vote is 100% reliable to the Dems, they don’t have to do anything to win your vote. And thus, they can completely ignore you and everything you care about. The Dems have moved so far to the right that modern Republican Fascism doesn’t seem completely unreasonable to many people by comparison. After all, Democrats firmly embraced what was far-right immigration policy just a few years ago. Democrats have made a hard turn to the right. This has forced Republicans to move even further right into Fascism. And if things continue down this path, with Democrats never being held accountable, eventually both Democrats and Republicans will be overtly Fascist.
That is what happens if a party is never held accountable.
That’s a good point. My vote was pragmatic over principle. The dems need to be held accountable, but they won’t. There needs to be a major overhaul of the party, but realistically I don’t see that happening any time soon. For the foreseeable future this is what we are stuck with.
That whole be the change thing is horseshit in this day and age.
So hold them accountable for literally any other office besides president when the opponent is a literal fascist?
Are Republicans going to stop being Fascist at any time in the foreseeable future? They ran a fascist in 2016, 2020, and 2024. And they have a long line of potential future candidates.
“Don’t hold them accountable while running against a fascist” == “never hold them accountable.”
And there’s no point in going after officers other than the president on this issue. It’s not like governors have much control over foreign policy.
So never?
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The primaries are where the accountability should happen. For the vast, vast majority of elections in the US the winner will be either the Democratic candidate or Republican candidate. And you can turn in primary ballot without voting for any of the candidates. Your participation is then a matter of public record, and campaign managers will be inclined to try and win your vote.
edit - you can also become an actual party member, maybe even a delegate, and vote on leadership.
The primaries are where the accountability should happen.
Democrats do not run democratic primaries. It’s why they invented superdelegates and fought for their presumed right to run dirty, undemocratic primaries in court.
It’s this simple. Dems knew since their primaries that voters wanted them to stop sending WMD’s to Israel. Multiple state level primaries had double-digit percentages of voters that voted “undecided” specifically to communicate that they wanted change on the Israeli genocide.
Democrats just shrugged their shoulders and ignored it.
Well I did say should. So what is your suggestion? Vote third party? By my quick scanning of this page there’s are <45 members of state legislatures around the country, out of >7,500 total state legislators. And 2 out of 535 US Congress members. Not voting? They don’t care. That’s just less time and money they have to spend trying to connect with a potential opposition voter.
Vote third party?
Yes, for starters.
Also, do some introspection. Democrats do not support democracy. Despite all the nice things they say, they are fascists. Voting against them is a moral act.
I’ve been saying it since June. I know I’m shouting into the void. Unless you’re willing to go full Player 2 or you’re a billionaire, you have no power here.
So how do you plan to succeed with third parties in the face of the cumulative failure of all third parties combined to win even 1% of the offices? In particular in contrast to the recent increase of progressive candidates running for and winning Democratic primaries?
Also, do some introspection.
I did, and that’s why I stopped voting for any 3rd parties in 2016. I had voted for candidates from all parties prior to then. Because they can’t win a large enough scale without electoral reform. And we won’t get that by losing all the elections.
they are fascists. Voting against them is a moral act.
So if we’re getting fascists either way (because again, the winners of >99% of elections around the country are going to be either the Democratic candidate or the Republican candidate), wouldn’t voting to prevent the ascension to power of the racist transphobes who are publicly voicing their desire to detransition transgender persons and denaturalize and deport citizens be the moral thing to do?
I’ve been saying it since June. I know I’m shouting into the void.
And I assume people like me have been responding to you the whole time. And your voices were enough to lose the election for the rest of us. So not much a void.
willing to go full Player 2 or you’re a billionaire
Sorry, I don’t understand the Player 2 reference. And since you don’t appear to have been paying attention, the billionaires are all winning now (they wanted Trump, they got Trump).
Refusing to hold Democrats accountable is also voting for Fascism.
They really are out here pretending that Genocide Joe didn’t enthusiastically help Israel stack corpses for the last 15 months of his presidency, literally down to the final day.
Yes, “held accountable” because you can’t imagine a world in which geopolitics means you can’t just cut off all support to an ally with an “or else”.
The only thing worse than the morons too stupid to see that Trump is going to do what he says, are the morons who think that you can just drop all aid to Israel overnight and nothing will happen. Do any of you have ANY idea how intertwined both our military and tech sectors are?
Reagan threatened Israel with cutting off all aid, unless they play ball. And they did.
Without the US supporting Israel its other allies would also abandon it quickly.
So all the US has to do to make Israel do what the US says is withhold support until Israel obeys.
What Biden did instead was throwing the US to the feet of Israel, at best rambling and making token gestures. So the US halted 2.000 pound bombs? That surely didnt stop Israel from annihilating people in Gaza with the other bombs the US kept delivering.
They said the same thing about Apartheid South Africa. You think it was easy to cut ties with them? They were also tied into our military industrial complex.
And I find the argument “but it’s going to be haaard” despicable.
And I find the argument “but it’s going to be haaard” despicable.
As you should. It’s so fucking lame.
Negotiations to end Apartheid took 6 years (1987 to 1993)! The US started placing sanctions in 1986, and the transition away from Apartheid didn’t start until 1990. Apartheid wasn’t fully ended until 1994.
They said it was hard to cut ties with them, and they were right. Global politics is harder than, “just do it.” Biden didn’t solve the genocide in a year, but he was working with a more difficult situation than just cutting off money/weapons. If he does that, then every country around Israel starts taking advantage of it and he has a much bigger situation to deal with. I don’t agree with how little Biden did to stop the genocide. I don’t agree with Harris not being vocal about putting even more pressure on Israel. But there is more at play than just “don’t send weapons.”
Voters weren’t expecting Biden to issue a complete trade embargo with Israel. What they were expecting was for Biden to FOLLOW US LAW and stop shipping arms to Israel, a country flagrantly violating law. There is a universe of possibilities between “stop sending Israel bombs on our dime” and “turn Israel into Cuba.”
You’ll notice that started with sanctions. “There will be a long time between pressure and results” isn’t an argument to not start the pressure.
Do you think apartheid ended overnight?
You’re mistaking “it took a long time to end Apartheid” with “we shouldn’t even try to end Apartheid.”
Huh? What do you think my position here is?
The only thing worse than the morons too stupid to see that Trump is going to do what he says, are the morons who think that you can just drop all aid to Israel overnight and nothing will happen.
That’s one of my favorite excuses for Democrats breaking promises and/or doing nothing: It’s hard. (As if we shouldn’t expect the people we elect to do hard things.)
And yes, when Israel wants more WMD’s to perpetrate a genocide, I would expect a conscientious president or legislators to do something about it and say no.
If by saving, they meant “it literally won’t exist” anymore, then yeah. 2000 pound bombs are good for leveling entire city blocks.
Most of Gaza is already leveled and uninhabitable. They didn’t need 2000 pound bombs.
The IDF doesn’t need to do any of the horrific shit they do…
Think of all the time they save of demolition services! /s
They’ve been dropping these 2,000lb bombs in Palestine and several of their neighboring countries for quite some time now. It’s pretty odd that people are trying to act all self-righteous about this when Trump is just continuing the exact same policy that Biden was.
Trump is just continuing the exact same policy that Biden was
This article is literally him reversing a Biden policy.
This “article” is literally two sentences long and makes no reference to the thousands of 2,000lb bombs we’ve been sending Israel this entire time.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
How many Palestinian children have died so far with democrat supplied bombs again? You think you have a leg to stand on?
“but what if the genocide rubber stamp was still blue” is not a compelling argument.
Yes leftists are the problem. Not the half of the country that willingly and happily voted for this.
Edit: Is there even any evidence that having protest voters vote for Kamala would’ve changed anything? Since I’m getting dogpiled here I want to clarify I was not a protest voter but everyone on Lemmy and Reddit keeps sharing this exact same sentiment
No, there isn’t. They just want to blame the left for centrism failing. Arabs and anti-war sentiment are convenient and evergreen “bad guys” in centrist politics and one that has been actively reinforced by the media since the genocide began. It’s a convenient scapegoat for an across the board failure of a centrist campaign.
And if this was actually the linchpin, then it wasn’t exactly a big surprise. The whole movement was trying to raise the issue and was repeatedly ignored.
I voted for Kamala, but you have to be pretty dense to think that there is any meaningful difference between how Kamala and Trump would have handled Palestine. They’re both full-on Zionists. Giving them some bigger bombs won’t change things much. They already flatten entire neighborhoods at a whim.
If two candidates will likely both be abominable on an issue you care about, you might as well vote to hold the one representing the party that has already committed genocide accountable.
you have to be pretty dense to think that there is any meaningful difference between how Kamala and Trump would have handled Palestine
Kamala called for a ceasefire.
Trump said Biden should “Let [Israel] go and let [Israel] finish it.” and now he’s saying we’re going to give Israel bigger bombs to do it while removing economic sanctions on Israeli occupiers.
How can you say there is no meaningful difference?
Kamala called for a ceasefire.
So did Biden. She also said she couldn’t think of anything Biden had done that she’d have done differently. There’s a good reason people were skeptical about her being any different from what’s already happening.
I’m not sure how telling me that she’s the same as Biden is any kind of rebuttal to what I said. I responded to someone saying they believed Kamala and Trump would have no meaningful difference in their handling of it. I replied by linking to quotes from those two people showing a markedly different attitude (one says “stop shooting” and the other says “keep shooting until it’s done”). And now we’re seeing that Trump, as President, is carrying out actions consistent with what he said as a candidate, which were and are the opposite of what Kamala was saying before the election.
Because Biden was not meaningfully opposing the genocide but would say he wanted peace. We can’t know whether Harris was actually lying when she said she didn’t want to change anything, but saying she’s in favor of a cease fire and saying she didn’t want to act any differently than Biden isn’t a contradiction. He said he wanted a cease fire, and then he armed and shielded the genocide. We already have the template for how that works.
You still are ignoring the fact that we were comparing Kamala and Trump.
We already have the template for how that works.
And Trump said as a candidate he thought we should do even less than Biden, and now is doing exactly that. So where in all of this am I supposed to have expected that Kamala would have been the same as Trump?
At some point the genocide is bad enough that there’s not much difference in further degrees. Doing even less than Biden isn’t a whole lot less, because Biden was barely doing anything and none of it seems to have been at all effective. An advanced military with unrestrained targeting and an infinite supply of 500 lb. bombs can destroy things pretty completely.
I despise Trump, but I do not buy that argument for a second. You’re clearly taking a meaning that you’re inventing on your own, not from the text itself. “Let Israel go and finish it” could just as easily be interpreted as “they need to wrap this war up and reach a cease fire.”
Kamala called for a ceasefire, but her and Biden wouldn’t lift a pinky finger to actually produce such a cease fire. Trump seems to have actually succeeded at getting a ceasefire.
Trump didn’t do fuck all to get a ceasefire. The Biden admin negotiated it for months, but Israel held off right until the end (ala Reagan and Iran). Now that trump is in and removing all sanctions and weapon blocks, Israel is right back at “operations” in Gaza. Just remember that everything that happens from here on out should be hung around your neck and other Trump voters / sit it out voters. There’s never been a peaceful way out of fascism.
You’re clearly taking a meaning that you’re inventing on your own, not from the text itself. “Let Israel go and finish it” could just as easily be interpreted as “they need to wrap this war up and reach a cease fire.”
I don’t need to make anything up. Trump followed up his words as a candidate with his actions as president to resume giving Israel the bigger bombs that Biden stopped giving them and to remove financial sanctions on Israeli occupiers.
Kamala called for a ceasefire, but her and Biden wouldn’t lift a pinky finger to actually produce such a cease fire.
I mean sure if you ignore the fact that Biden stopped shipping these bigger bombs and tried using financial sanctions then yeah, they didn’t lift a finger.
Trump seems to have actually succeeded at getting a ceasefire.
Trump himself said he’s not confident the ceasefire will hold, and by some accounts Israel has already violated it
you have to be pretty dense to think that there is any meaningful difference between how Kamala and Trump would have handled Palestine.
This is just blatantly disingenuous. It is not aligned with reality. You’re either delusional or you’re pushing a false narrative intentionally.
I love that your defense here is: “Look at that, you’re just as big of a piece of shit as we are.”
But in reality, they’re objectively more moral than you are in voting against genocide. That it may happen anyway doesn’t change that.
There are many more issues beyond Gaza. The environment, healthcare, social rights, immigration. They are complicit in all of it.
Yesterday Trump declared “War on Transgender” and his desire to eradicate transgenderism in the US. Musk threw a literal Nazi salute. They immediately put out an EO targeting trans people. Non-voters and 3p voters are complicit in this and in what is about to happen to trans people in the US.
Or course, they don’t have the moral stain of a Trump supporter but “not a literal Nazi” shouldn’t be the baseline it is.
Actually Harris voters are responsible for all of this because they heard this incompetent and unqualified person fumble through softball interviews saying absolutely nothing at all and looking like a complete fool and they all still voted for her. They all voted for a loser.
She had no policy. Every answer to questions was an evasion.
Blue maga is real.
So why should someone care about any of these issues, while you demand them to ignore the issue they care about?
Why do we accept the Democrats pitting transrights against arab childrens right to life?
Because these issues much more directly affect people in the US, and by extension, you (assuming you’re even FROM the US)
Personally I’m a trans immigrant. In part BECAUSE of protest voters, my new priority over literally everything else is my own survival. It’s not that I don’t care about Gaza, my heart breaks for the Palestinians affected by the genocide, but I don’t have energy left to devote to that fight. That is by design as a fractured population is less able to work together.
What you mean by that is they affect you. There are Palestinians in the United States, Jewish people who want to quash the wave of antisemitism this will trigger, and other Americans who would like to not ignite another wave of anti-Americanism is the Arab world.
You don’t have to prioritize the anti-war movement over the issues that are closest to your own life and safety, but you don’t get to demand that they sideline the issues that are closest to their lives for you. Solidarity goes both ways.
Voting for more death to protest genocide is a vote FOR GENOCIDE you dumbass
Wow, that’s surely going to both get the price of eggs down AND stop the genocide of Palestinians! How does he do it?
Trump has achieved a ceasefire in Gaza. Some Palestinians are celebrating it as a victory.
I mean there are two ways to stop the genocide. You can stop killing people or you can, how did he put it? “Finish the problem”
It’s called a “Final solution” and, yeah, multiple people in the Israeli Government talk about wanting a “Final solution for the Palestinian Problem”.
It’s probably the rapes that make him feel so young… Or maybe the felonies. I don’t know… There’s a lot to unpack here.
Not to beat the dead horse but… Those who said “I won’t vote Democratic because Gaza” were either lying or delusional.
In 2028 there won’t be any Gaza, what will be the next line?
People who still believe you have to choice either between red and blue are delusional.
That’s just self-indugent tribalist scapegoating using an argument which is circular and self-disproving.
- If there were too few people who cared about the Israeli Genocide enough for it to affect the vote, which is would justify the decision of the Democrat leadership to not do anything meaningful to agree with the demands of those voters (Biden pausing his own decision of sending 2000lb bombs is very much a “I’m saving you from myself” moment), then you can’t really blame those few people for the Democrat loss since there were not enought of them to make a difference and something else made the Democracts lose, so the fault is in the strategy followed by the Democrat leadership on other subjects.
- If on the other hand there were so many people who cared about the Israeli Genocide enough for it to result in the Democrats losing the vote, why did the Democrat candidates not go after that vote? Again, the blame is down to the choices of the Democrat leadership: it’s always easier to change what a handfull of people do than to change what millions do, so for the handful of people in the Democrat Party leadership to change their position with regards to supporting Israeli in its Genocide would be far more logical to expect in that scenario than for such a large slice of the electorate - millions of voters - to change their position instead. Even if one thinks “our leader’s position is more important than that of millions of people so it’s the millions who have to change their positions, not our leader” (a bootlicker’s mindset, BTW), it’s still incredibly stupid to go with “we’re going to convince millions to change their position rather than just that one guy” as a strategy so the blame still rests with those who chose to go with it.
All I see here and now is people making a pseudo-“argument” that is entirelly reliant on the axiom that “the boss is always right” to manage to somehow blame millions for something which the “the boss” could have (per the part of that very same pseudo-“argument” which claims it was the people who were against the Israeli Genocide that sawyed the vote) easilly avoided by just meaningufully changing his position on just that one subject. That presumption that the leaders are blameless and it’s the peons who are to blame for not being willing to follow the leaders no mater what they were doing, is a 100% subservient mindset.
If you’re going to assign blame for Trump, look at the handful of people in the Democrat Party who chose to do things in such a way that the results was that millions of their own electorate chose not to vote for them, thus delivering the election to Trump.
And the gold medal for mental gymnastics goes to…
Sorry, didn’t pass the second line because you failed to understand what I say.
I’m not saying Biden is good for Gaza. I’m saying if your concern is Gaza, Trump is not better. So for a meaningless virtue signaling, everything else is worse.
This is the tragic truth.
The most frustrating part about it is that withholding votes was framed as a principled position. And I’m sorry, but that’s asinine. How many of those people who declared that they wouldn’t vote for the democratic ticket because of their action/inaction on Gaza actually did anything more than posting rants on social media? How many raised funds for aid? How many organized rallies, protests, or educational outreach? How many even so much as contacted their representatives?
It is either naivety or complacency to believe that national policy should change just because you and your friends sent around some memes. And it is callous indifference to base your vote on a single issue and then claim that you’re inhabiting the moral high ground.
If you yell into the void, you shouldn’t expect a response. And if you believe in an issue, either take action or acknowledge that it would be staggeringly arrogant to expect other people to put in work that you yourself won’t do.
The American non-Republican voters were played like a fiddle. Long live Tik Tok who fed the indignation and enabled Trump’s victory!
One way to end a genocide is to 100% the ethnic cleansing.
Yeah, but when do they ever stop at just one group? When the Nazis started running low on Jews to scapegoat, they expanded their operation to include gays, gypsies, handicapped…etc.
I think most of them were state sponsored psyops or really shit trolls. I don’t think most actual real marginally rational thinking people would have such a dumb af take.
You would think, and yet they’re still around parrotting the same narrative. Hell, there’s at least one in the comments of this very post.
Assuming that anyone with a contrary opinion, no matter how ridiculous you might feel it is, is being disingenuous is an easy way to underestimate them.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t “parrot”. Someone can be capable of thorough independent thought and be unwilling to support politicians complicit in/actively committing genocide. Crazy, I know.
As if you need any additional evidence how .ml and their spinoffs are funded
^ I remember this dude was on the last post like this too. I think that “they’ve been real quiet since the election” post in PoliticalMemes that got me banned from the sub.
Trump being elected is enough proof for me to realize most people in our country have dumb af takes.
I don’t think most Americans care enough about Gaza for it to affect their vote (or for it to cause them to choose not to vote). Some, certainly, but not enough to have made a difference. This was about groceries being expensive.
It was a combined effort to suppress voter turnout. Provide every possible reason to tap into that bernie bro “the democrats deserve to lose because they betrayed me” mindset.
TBH the Dems deserved to lose, but Trump deserved to lose much, much, much, much harder.
The problem being that means too many people don’t show up, and only the fanatics get a say. And they have a lot more than us.
That’s exactly my point. People should go and vote against fascism, but apparently they won’t.
And Harris wasn’t inspiring enough to get them out to vote for her instead of just against him.
Your point seemed to be “She sucks, maybe not as much as the other guy, but still sucks”, which is not exactly inspiring in and of itself. maybe you should do less to try and discredit the currently most viable defense we have against people like Trump.
You have serious problems if you needs additional inspiration beyond literal fascism.
That fake “Bernie bro” mindset, you mean. No genuine Bernie bro failed to vote (D) in the general, by definition, because that’s what Bernie himself recommended.
The numbers seem to tell a different story, actually. Mind you, this is one poll and it’s among people who did not vote giving a reason for not voting after having not voted, but the numbers aren’t insignificant
I really tried to tell them, but the propaganda is insane.
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They’ve already made inroads into the West Bank, Syria, and Lebanon, right?
Whoa whoa “Genocide Joe” where did you come from where did you go, where did you come from “Genocide Joe.”
Crickets
He was entirely unfit to hold office and ruined the democrats chance of winning the election
Next question
As it turns out, there are about 2,000 pounds of difference between Republicans and Democrats.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28
WASHINGTON, June 28 (Reuters) - The Biden administration has sent to Israel large numbers of munitions, including more than 10,000 highly destructive 2,000-pound bombs and thousands of Hellfire missiles, since the start of the war in Gaza, said two U.S. officials briefed on an updated list of weapons shipments.
Between the war’s start last October and recent days, the United States has transferred at least 14,000 of the MK-84 2,000-pound bombs, 6,500 500-pound bombs, 3,000 Hellfire precision-guided air-to-ground missiles, 1,000 bunker-buster bombs, 2,600 air-dropped small-diameter bombs, and other munitions, according to the officials, who were not authorized to speak publicly.
Hope that helps!
But still 2,000 fewer than if Kamala had won.
What?
I am just here waiting for the “Free Palestine” folks to show us the way with some real radical activism.
Of those of us that voted, whether Harris, Stein, De la Cruz, West, etc. - everyone we voted for lost. The candidate you voted for was also complicit in genocide, whereas ours wasn’t. We failed as a collective. If we could take every single one of those votes, and coordinate them towards one candidate, the best scenario would NOT be Harris, because she’s a fucking lying psychopath. That’s not even radical, this is civics 101 - you have a fascist movement you want to defeat, organize, find the best path, follow the best path, in unison. Not some middling ass piece of shit war criminal that the television told you was the top choice.
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