• @Tatar_Nobility@lemmy.ml
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    91 year ago

    Meat consumption isn’t as damaging to the environment as what certain people perceive it to be. The problem lies in the unethical, capitalist practices of the meatpacking industry and its derivatives. We’re overproducing meat.

    So no, a vegan diet isn’t an obligation but what is is reducing our meat consumption and stop feeding the animal-industrial complex.

    • @maegul@lemmy.ml
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      61 year ago

      I feel like the whole “not as environmentally damaging as people think” Is a new dangerously vague and meaninglessly contrarian meme. It could be true! But without numbers or references to common instances of misleading information, I can’t help but see parroting of a bad meme.

      • @Tatar_Nobility@lemmy.ml
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        21 year ago

        I understand your concerns.

        What I would like to convey is that a vegan lifestyle can be just as easily commercialized by big agro-industrial corporations, and subsequently equally harm the environment of humans and other organisms alike. We should look beyond the debate on veganism and realize that it is the consumerist practices that are the main issue at hand.

        I’m not simply saying that consumption of meat with moderation is the way to go. No, my argument goes further. Mass-produced meat is inherently harmful and no moderation can ever fix that. I propose instead buying smaller quantities of meat from local butcheries whose practices conform to good ethics and practices.

  • @Kajika@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    The question is already biased here : you could have ask if we think everyone SHOULD be vegan.

    If you say ‘needs’ it is hard to understand what do you mean and it pushes the idea of forcing people which puts a negative light on the end goal.

    'Need` for what? The environment crisis? Sustaining a certain amount of people/growth? Ethical concern?

    Obviously any vegan will want others to be vegan, the same way any capitalist wants everyone to be capitalist, communist the same, etc. The opposite works too, non-vegan won’t be happy to be forced into veganism.

    In my opinion the better question is asking if we should be vegan. Now everyone can participate to the debate without feeling forced. Also trying to push rules on people who disagrees is not the best way usually, it is tolerable when they are in extreme minority.

    The vegan question has been talked for many years now and beside conservatism there are not a lot of arguments against veganism in theory. The practice is way more difficult, especially with current communication being held by weird billionaires and democratic processes being crushed all over the world.

    I am sorry I don’t see any debate here, I hope I made my point clear.

  • @maegul@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    I’d say that purism is a trap. So no, I don’t think everyone needs to be vegan.

    Instead, I’d say everyone should “lean vegan”, and resisting veganism out of some sense of traditional values, desire to eat dead things as an expression of human dominance, or, a hedonistic desire for meaty foods, is almost certainly wrong and probably dumb.

    Sure, vegan means no animal products. But change can be slow, and respecting that someone is trying and interested without completely cutting out their weekend croissants can go a long way, IMO.

    • @pingveno@lemmy.ml
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      31 year ago

      Hopefully veganism can soon include animal products! It’s always a little hard to tell when a new technology will really hit its stride, but various cultured meats are tantalizingly close. I’ve been reducing my animal product intake, but it will be nice when I can still have a little meat without the ethical issues.

  • @ilk@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    No. Being vegan is unhealthy, regardless of taking artificial supplements. You will most likely be deficient of B12, vitamin D, calcium, … Also vegetal protein is different from animal protein; afaik animal protein is better and easier to digest for humans. You notice the vegan effects it with time: cognitive functions diminish, weaker, hair becomes unhealthy like hair loss, …

    So if you want, take vegetarianism as a compromise.

    • @Jeffrey@lemmy.ml
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      61 year ago

      *Citation needed

      Veganism can be inexpensive, accessible, and perfectly healthy with a little planning. Here’s a short list of major nutrients that are usually a concern and some inexpensive vegan sources:

      • B12 - Nutritional yeast.
      • Calcium - Antacids like Tums.
      • Iodine - Iodized salt.
      • Complete Protein - Beans, lentils, tofu, etc.
      • Omega-3s - Flax seeds, Chia seeds, nuts and vegetable oils.*

      *Omega-3s are the hardest to get enough of because converting ALA to DHA and EPA is an inefficient process. Chia and flax seeds are an easy way to get enough ALA, but you will need to eat them, or another ALA-rich food, with every meal. I use a non-vegan Omega-3 supplement, but I don’t claim to be a vegan. A 95-99% reduction in the animal products I consume makes me happy.

      As others have stated - a strict vegan diet is not necessary for everyone, but the individuals who choose to go strictly vegan increase demand for alternatives and popularize recipes and techniques that help the general public to consume fewer animal products. Whether someone adheres to a strict vegan diet, or not, a drastic reduction in the amount of animal products we consume is essential. In the United States it is normal and expected to eat meat & dairy as part of every meal and every snack. The adverse health effects of red / processed meats and dairy are well documented, and the resulting environmental devastation is undeniable.

      Everyone doesn’t need to go vegan, but eating meat and dairy 3-5 times per week instead of 3-5 times per day would be a big step in the right direction.

      • @ilk@feddit.de
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        1 year ago
        • for b12 they need to be fortified…
        • how are those as good for the human organism as animal products? body processes different energy sources differently.
        • cost benefit and availability worldwide? if having a healthy diet can be already expensive, what about a “healthy” vegan diet?
        • why artificial product like tum would be better than natural?
        • it is good to have complete plant-based protein sources, i do eat them. but our body processes different sources of protein differently. give the sources saying they are as nutritious for our body

        i’m saying this from anecdotal evidence. i took supplements, complete plant-based proteins, seeds/nuts, … still was having negative effects. medics, nutritionists told me to stop with such vegan diet

    • @ilk@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      And never suggest anyone to be vegan or vegetarian (would you like leading people you care for being unhealthy, dying early?). Suggest decreasing animal products production and consumption, mainly thinking about sustainability (emissions) and healthy issues (evidence of utraprocessed red meat is carcinogen), and unnecessary suffering because of consumerism. Take veganism, vegetarianism as a your own philosophy if you wish.

  • No. It’s dogma to say otherwise. Veganism comes from seperations from nature, and cannot aid in restoring these relations. It is inherently ungrounded and universalist. People don’t need to be vegan and there is no moral imperative to be vegan either. Rather it is part of the problem.

    • @imgprojts@lemmy.ml
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      31 year ago

      Vegan means you don’t torture animals… including to eat the animals. It’s not a diet really. You can eat anything you want, just don’t harm animals. Think before you eat…did an animal get killed to make my taco? Did a calf get killed so that I could have his milk from his mother? Did a fish get hooked and yanked out of the water by it’s stomach or lips? Did the sushi start as a crab getting a hammer through it brains?

      I’ve been vegan since 2 whole entire years. Being vegan is total shit when it comes to enjoying the Norma American lifestyle. The local mall has pretzels as vegan option. #starbucks has vegan sandwiches that include eggs… WTF! No matter where you go, when it comes to eating, some asswipe has killed an animal and wants you to pay him for you to eat the dead animal. Vegan should be easy! There’s so much non animal food!..it’s fed to animals so as to create scarcity and the result is that you gotta eat the animals fed with that abundant food. Sure, you don’t want to eat hey. So plant fruit trees instead of hey bushes!

      But yeah, people don’t need to be vegan. They should be though. But when it comes to our diet, the three most important things I did was to stop eating sugary things, stop eating greasy things and stop eating salty things. Specially sugar, these things are just deadly. You still should top eating those things, you don’t need to stop eating those things.

  • Willard Herman
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    1 year ago

    I am vegan to try to do as little harm as I can. But really, there is no way to avoid causing harm in this world. We are prevented from being harmless by the structure of existence. We are forced into conflict with other people and our basic needs, and animals, and we are forced to harm others by the nature of the world, but I still try to harm as little as I can.

    I am vegan because I hate life.

    EDIT: I just realized, I didn’t answer the question. Need, for what? For their health? For the suffering of animals? I am not sure vegan is the optimal diet for health. But I don’t care, I am vegan for other reasons. If people hate the brutality of consuming animals then yes they need to be vegan.

    Everyone is not a unit that will ever work together, the vegan “cause” is hopeless.

    • @ilk@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      there is no way to avoid causing harm in this world

      seems like that, unless we stop the universe or end it all. afaik there is no evidence for plants consciousness, or feeling pain. but eating plants harms plants, which are life. they do react, communicate to the environment, which includes what humans do to them. besides there is a ton of organisms in our body dying to maintain we alive. i mean, even the sun is dying while earth and life on it consumes its energy… seems like suffering, death, disorder, is one way or another the nature of where we are; one exploring/exploiting other entities existence for maintaining its own existence and prosperity. on harming existing entities, we just judge as moral/immoral on the degree to what is closer to our nature (which include ourselves, animals, plants, …) and what will impact them (work exploitation, capitalism, environments damage, animal murdering, …).

      • Willard Herman
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        11 year ago

        I think we agree. Maybe? I am not sure.

        "besides there is a ton of organisms in our body dying to maintain we alive.”

        Those organisms in our body, they live in our body and our body is like their planet. Our body is their Earth, we are their environment. They can’t live without us. But then, everything is aimed at diminishing.

        "we just judge as moral/immoral on the degree to what is closer to our nature (which include ourselves, animals, plants, …)”

        It seems to me we should just try, just try, to cause less pain and suffering, to be less harmful to those beings that feel pain. But of course, my thoughts and feelings that I should be less harmful are foolish, because it is impossible to be harmless. It is impossible due to the nature of the world.

  • @_ed@sopuli.xyz
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    51 year ago

    No but I think a some point the price of meat products will push people towards alternate options, or reduction.

  • alex [they/them]
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    41 year ago

    Not in the current way things are organized. I think everyone who is involved in the agriculture and/or food industries should prioritize veganism and make it easier to be vegan, meaning that you can still eat animal products but that they’re never offered as a default, you’d have to go to a specialized shop to buy them for instance instead of them being offered in all restaurants and supermarkets.

    The effort should not lie on the consumer, with a limited choice of vegan options (especially if you don’t want to spend time cooking), but on the production and distribution channels.

  • Not at all. I believe that humans do best when eating meat and that animals can be raised and slaughtered humanely without harming the environment. The problem is that it isn’t profitable

  • @PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    I think no one should be forced either way.

    And the question is weirdly constructed, as if some groups would need to be vegan while others would not? You probably don’t mean it, but food access issues were always part of the classism and racism.

  • @HoornseBakfiets@feddit.nl
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    111 months ago

    If everyone stopped consuming cow + milk + cheese (I know) That would already be a win

    Have a chicken sandwich with nutritional yeast