- cross-posted to:
- shermanposting@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- shermanposting@lemmy.world
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The first time I ran into the KKK in the woods, I was really glad I had a stick of dynamite on me.
It’s funny if you watch them for a minute too, their burning cross catches its surroundings on fire, burning many of them to death.
Interesting. Muuuch more satisfying to blow them up, though.
Much people forget before black slavery there was white slavery… So its just good if there is none slavery.
before black slavery there was white slavery
bzzt wrong. Portuguese slave traders worked out deals with african tribal leaders in the 1400s. Unless you’re going to relabel feudalism as slavery.
There was slavery before Portugal or feudalism were things. I’d wager slavery might even predate the homo sapien species and probably came soon after a species was able to communicate orders and threats.
ok, keep going, you’re almost there: if you follow that back to the Olduvai gorge, like you say, to the earliest humans - where were those hominids who were enslaving each other? come on, you can do it…
were they white people?
This idiotic statement:
Much people forget before black slavery there was white slavery… So its just good if there is none slavery.
Much people forget basic grammar too, apparently.
No, there’s always some idiot who has to bring up that some white people (maybe even their ancestors) were also slaves, so he shouldn’t have to XYZ. Or that people of color might have ancestors who enslaved each other, so XYZ. It’s all silly bullshit.
I was just responding to what you said, not the overall line of argument. I was going to add stuff about not being able to determine the colour of those first slaves and it not really being relevant either way, but it felt like it was getting rambly so I cut it back to the main point.
Are you saying white slavery was as systemic and width spread as black slavery in America? If so I’ve missed a big part of the American slave history.
No, I’m just saying what I wrote. It is not meant to be an equality or anything else but just a statement that it is good without any slavery no matter what origin, skin color and (even if I am an atheist and despise any religion) religious affiliation. It was also not referring to Americans but a general statement.
what is it that drives the desperate need you have to bring it up in this context?
the vast majority of people who know history know about indentured servitude. but it’s a footnote compared the the millions of people systematically stolen (not indentured, note), taken to another part of the planet and bred for labor.
Yes ok then say that you are happy that slavery of black people has stopped and that you don’t care about any other form of slavery. < That’s what the statement suggests because you’re not talking about slavery in general but explicitly about black slaves…
Sure, but the image is about a game taking place in American history. I agree that no slavery is good but you comment doesn’t add much to the historical context. If anything removes nuance.
Would be good without modern slavery right? Penal labor. But well affected are black white whatever.
But I could have expressed myself more directlyThere is a certain type of whataboutism where people are just super eager to remind people that “well, actually, white people were slaves too” when referring to slavery in America. It’s likely why they appear to be more on guard about what you’re saying.
Not comparable
They’re both two types of slavery. They’re in the same category. They can be compared.
Of course they are comparable, just that the statement is a little strange in the context of American history.
Well sure anything can be compared in a literal sense. For example, based on your responses, I think you are either more racist or more ignorant than the average individual. However, the literal comparability of the two types of slavery is not exactly the point anyone is making here.
I must’ve misunderstood, sorry.
This argument is fucking stupid. And racist.
The argument that chattle slavery and ye olde roman slavery are wildly different is stupid and racist? Cool story.
Slavery is slavery no matter who does it or whom it’s done to.
“White slavery” was white people that were slaves. Black slaves literally weren’t viewed as people! Thus, no one cared if you beat them, starved them, raped them, tortured them, and/or killed them. Which we as a country did. That’s the difference.
“viewed as people” is meaningless unless it confers some special rights afforded to people.
White slaves didn’t have any more rights than black slaves, largely because skin-color based distinction is a rather modern invention (compared to the institution of slavery) and the defining traits of both black and white slaves were that they’re slaves. And slaves were universally treated poorly. Even the most benevolent slave owners in antiquity were cruel, because why wouldn’t you be? The damn thing might start getting uppity if you didn’t remind it you’re in control. Just imagine it might cause damage to someone else, and you’d be dragged to court over it!
A crime against your slave was a crime against your household (assuming you’re the head of the household), which you were entitled to drag the other party to court for. But there was literally no legal framework that would allow any kind of prosecution for anything you did to your own household. You could also beat them, kill them, rape them, literally anything. They had no defense. The only person empowered to prosecute on their behalf would be the one beating them.
So no, “white people that were slaves” weren’t people in any meaningful sense, because oppression and supremacy in much of the pre-modern world didn’t care about skin color. The romanticism around white slavery is bullshit, because owning other humans has never been anything but cruel.
Not even close. Chattel slavery is much worse.
I don’t think it was about “white vs black” as much as it was about “America can take any system, good or bad, and turn it into something so much worse”.
Try again
And somehow this game is never part of the examples that some bigots are listing when talking about woke games.
Similarly with Cyberpunk 2077 and Baldur’s Gate 3. Both of those games are gay as fuck.
Cyberpunk got a lot of hate by that crowd leading into release, and they dunked on the release a ton as if it vindicated them.
It’s obvious they’ve never read any of Mike Pondsmith’s stuff if they think gender and sexuality in the Cyberpunk universe is any way at all viewed from a conservative lense.
I mean, they were just chuds angry that you could have a character with male and female sexual characteristics, I don’t think any of them had the brainpower to read.
Well, yeah. That would require them to actually read and use their brain, and that’s liberal shit.
I only saw hate on release for bugs and for the way it ran. Not for being woke. Idk
Which ones are they listing? I’m a bit out of the bigotry loop.
Usually it is any game that has a woman as a main protagonist.
The biggest examples are:
Horizon Zero Dawn
There was “controversy” where devs were releasing promotional material for the game and they released a video where they showcased graphical advancements and they zoomed in really close on the MC and you can see the very thin hair on her face that literally every person has. Some people didn’t like that.
The Last of Us 2 - very masculine woman
Fable - Not released yet, but the trailer had a woman that is not conventionally attractive.
Dragon Age Vanguard
Life is strange
Intergalactic The Heretic Prophet - new Naughty Dog’s game, Black Woman as MC
This is just from the top of my head.
I’m honestly surprised that no one calls this game woke
I feel like people might have. I vaguely remember when it first came out that there was someone on youtube uploading videos of them assaulting the woman’s suffrage protester and they got taken down after blowing up.
Because the game sold and reviewed well, so it goes against the narrative of “get woke go broke”
I think literally every business in the world has managed to tow that line. It’s not like the right stopped drinking bud light. Although they probably should have.
What is woke about the game?
Anti racism is woke. Arthur actively beats the shit out of or yells at anyone who is racist. Arthur is woke. This is a good thing.
Also, you can murder random Klan members and increase your honour.
Did not know that
They mean just in general.
Yep, there’s a bunch of Klan meets you can happen upon, where every attendee you kill nets you an increase in honour.
Know what I’m doing when i finish dragon age.
I like to start with the dynamite when they’re doing the racist Hokey Cokey.
Literally everything mentioned in the 4chan post.
I don’t feel that it’s woke. It’s pretty standard for today. Maybe in the 1800s this could be defined as woke
The bar is extremely low now. Being a decent human being is woke.
I love the fact that the slave owner is not only the one unarmed person you don’t lose honor for killing, but you actually gain honor for killing him.
You also don’t lose honor for killing this guy, and can do it right in front of the police without them reacting
Because attacking Norris will not affect the player’s honor, nor gain the player a wanted level, the player can hogtie Norris and drag him across the map to achieve the Rank 4 Horseman Challenge.
That guy was, I think, intended as a stand-in for real-life eugenicist and all-round villain Henry Laughlin. Killing him in-game was quite the treat.
I’m going to remember that for my next playthrough. I always just punched him and made him run away.
Hmm, I’ll have to give that a try
There was that other thread talking about Ubisoft games and how theyre putting a black samurai in there. I wrote a comment about how ubisoft marketing is so controversial but then they deliver these milquetoast Ubisoft games.
Just imagine if Farcry 5 actually went the route of RDR2 and had some fucking balls. Instead of try to appeal to both sides.
That’s what I don’t get, out of millions and hundreds of thousands gamers, how many are actually that stupid and bigoted to rage on anything they don’t like? These incel gamers always accuse many games as being woke, but then these games are blockbusters. Devs listen to a loud minority who don’t represent the entire community of gamers. The rest are silent majority who, have varying interest of games, like a game for being a good game, not because it is “woke”. And hate a bad game, because it is a bad game. It’s simple as.
Devs fall into the faux outrage bait from tiny minority of unthinking hordes, and it actually makes them bad than if they just ignore ridiculous baseless cries.
Edit: grammar
As someone who has been reading about gaming for a long time, it’s the console wars but now that gaming has become mainstream, it became political.
There has always been drama in gaming, there used to be PlayStation and Xbox fanboys that clearly wanted to be part of a team and for their team to win, it’s what makes it social for some people.
Then gaming became huge, the industry shifted and now we have a lot more diversity in types of games. So now you have these teams but it’s about other things (I’m on the story mode and no microtransaction team myself).
One team really benefits right wing media, and that’s the ones complaining about games being woke (and whatever that means). It’s amplified and hence why even though we live in the golden age of gaming choice, we keep hearing this loud minority.
I miss the era just before the internet really took off when the console war was fought on the playground between Nintendo kids and Sega kids.
Wow, that was their takeaway from that game? I honestly didn’t think about it once the whole playthrough, why are they so desperate to role play racism/sexism?
Oh we’re they saying these things like how much they hate Wokeness or something?
I thought this was an endorsement!
I thought OOP was saying it’s a good thing too
Coming from 4chan, I read it as loser whinging about “woke”.
Is it OK to do the opposite?
I need to fire this game up again when I get home
Now that I think about it, RDR2 is set in the past. I don’t think people tend to question the past; the values set by the past is taken for granted today. Anyone who might complain about it makes them look outwardly supportive of regression.
The wild west was largely a myth sold to people who stopped in remote towns and the people there put on a wild west show. So whatever you think of the game, it’s based on a myth.
