Vincent Oriedo, a biotechnology scientist, had just such a question. What lessons have been learned, he asked, from Harris’s defeat in this vital swing county in a crucial battleground state that voted for Joe Biden four years ago, and how are the Democrats applying them?
“They did not answer the question,” he said.
“It tells me that they haven’t learned the lessons and they have their inner state of denial. I’ve been paying careful attention to the influencers within the Democratic party. Their discussions have centred around, ‘If only we messaged better, if only we had a better candidate, if only we did all these superficial things.’ There is really a lack of understanding that they are losing their base, losing constituencies they are taking for granted.”
“We have set ourselves up for generational loss because we keep promoting from within leaders that that do not criticise the moneyed interests. They refuse to take a hard look at what Americans actually believe and meet those needs.”
Don’t worry too much, it’s the same in France. A whole side of the politic is in denial.
Removed by mod
Dems lost, because Americans are idiots. There’s no deeper meaning. Americans elected a con man for the second time. Con man, second fucking time. They knew how bad he is, because he already was president, yet they still voted for him. It blows my mind. No other explanation is needed, Americans are literally the dumbest pieces of shit on the face of the planet. I wish them the worst. They deserve what’s coming to them.
That is true, if you ignore voter suppression, winner take all, the electoral college, disenfranchising felons, redistricting, and all the other bullshit.
Of course Americans still need to step up and solve the problems, but if all you can do is blame the victims … to put it nicely … it tells us a lot about your personality.
The fact that he won the popular vote this time makes most of those irrelevant. Not the voter suppression and felon disenfranchisement.
Although one felon is super-duper enfranchised!
There is a way in which you are right. Americans elected the worst possible candidate who will make drastic changes that hurt them in the long run, but also that’s because the system in general, including democrats have been unwilling to make changes rapidly enough to address the major problems of the country. So, they took fast, bad change over slow, mediocre good change.
The small concession is that Trump is almost undoubtedly going to trip over his dick, so we’ll probably end up with a blue wave of some sort in 2028. Nothing will change for the DNC and no lessons will be learned, so 2032 looks bleak as shit.
We need to understand that Dems are not going to fight for anyone besides their donors. They’d rather lose than take pointers from someone like Bernie
From now on, the elections are rigged. The media is almost entirely fascist- or oligarch-controlled (to the extent that there’s a difference). The courts are so corrupted that there will be no justice from them until they are purged.
But yeay, just sit there complacently and wait for the pendulum to swing. That’ll work.
Lol @ the people who think they can vote themselves back out of this mess. Trump made it quite clear that “You won’t have to vote anymore” after this term. I for one believe him. Even if he dies you’ll just get saddled with one of his sons, daughter, son-in-law, …
we’ll probably end up with a blue wave of some sort in 2028
Don’t worry, that will get fucked up, too. A bunch of blue dogs who the DNC supports will win and they’ll claim that it’s a evidence that progressives can’t win.
I’ve been through this bullshit enough times to have learned the pattern
Corporations and Republicans control the media. Putin deployed psyops on the social media of the bar room and bowling alley crowd. They controlled the narrative and will continue to control it until people wake up and realize they have become wage slaves who have a shit-hole standard of living.
If Democrats hadn’t made a bunch of unnecessary and unforced errors, then we could blame it on the corpos and the Russians.
And what are you going to do about it next time? Otherwise the same thing will happen again.
Same thing they do every cycle. Move as far to the right as possible and tell anyone who doesn’t like it that they will be voting as instructed because the alternative isn’t second worst.
It doesn’t matter that they have seen that strategy fail twice against the same guy. Centrists would rather have fascism than move to the left for any reason on any issue.
I honestly didn’t hear many lefty policies
and until lefties learn that bitching about whether it was actually the DNC that made them lose or the fact that it was actually just minorities not voting hard enough or whatever cope people are using these days. This will keep working, that’s the problem.
Everybody loves to shit on the left and the DNC when it’s convenient, and then leech off of them when possible, while ignoring all the positives that have been gained through even an admittedly flawed institution.
Unfortunately none of this matters if the republicans psyop everybody in america, at the end of the day we have to win not winning, IS losing, and losing is simply not sustainable.
Trump pretty much won on optics alone and positioning himself once again as looking out for people despite not being true at all. Dems didn’t want to address people’s issues with the economy and did the weird thing of tap dancing for right Dick Cheney voters who don’t exist.
Just stand for something, even if the risk of loss is high. It pays off in the end.
Trump won on optics because the optics on the ground matched what he was saying. Democrats insisted the economy was fine when people were hurting, and lost because of that.
The slimy bullshit artist politician that lies about everything seems to be what people expect, like it’s the devil they know.
I am convinced that the assassination attempt secured him the win. I’m not American so maybe I’m way off, but over here that felt like the pivotal moment. It’s still annoying how GOOD that picture is.
Nah. At the moment it seemed like a really big deal but then it just kinda faded into the background after a news cycle. Nobody can tell you what day it happened on without googling.
It helped bounce back with momentum. Harris was actually doing good when she was on the attack and pointing out how weird modern republicans are. Trump is the text book example of failing upwards.
Dems will keep losing until they figure out which demographics they can’t afford to betray.
They thought LGBT and women would buy the last election and betrayed Unions, Nortenios, and Muslims. Like it wouldn’t have a consequence, then they lost the southwest (Nortenio) and midwest (Union and Muslim).
I think they’ll keep backing their corporate funders until the people bail on them and all move to a different political organization. Someday.
Every breakdown and postmortem i see make it pretty clear:
If you paid close attention and were well-informed, you voted for Kamala.
If you believe things aren’t true or didn’t pay close attention, you voted for Trump as a sort of totem for wealth and success, not because of a specific policy of his you like. He just represents making lots of money to you.
Any grappling with what went wrong or improvements needed within the DNC first needs to reckon with the reality that people aren’t seeing left-wing messaging and are instead exposed to a fake version of leftism pushed constantly by right-wing actors on social media.
We also need to consider that a massive swathe of the electorate is ignorant and for that includes a lot of people who have college degrees.
They didn’t vote for Trump as a totem of wealth and success. They voted for him as their embodiment of rage, performative cruelty and payback against all the people in the US who make them feel like backwards losers. They identify with him because he’s a raving asshole, and they instinctively kiss his ass because he presents himself as a grotesque WWE caracature of the rich.
Left wing messaging is all focused on logic and targeted to the well-informed. They have no emotional message for the poorly educated, and that’s a stupid mistake. I thought these were supposed to be the smart people? Zero EQ.
Everyone complains about poor Democratic messaging but when are we going to admit that as long as Republicans own all major media platforms, any messaging by Democrats is going to be distorted into nonsense by the media?
If American bombs kill American citizens shit will hit the fans. Gaza was going to kill Biden no mater what and the dumb bastard doubled down.
I think a lot of people have problems with the Democratic Party being bought by the billionaires as well …and supporting genocidal regimes.
I voted for Harris but you boiled it down to a few lines and missed a lot of reasons why I think a significant amount of Americans didn’t vote at all.
Nobody cares about genocide, man. Nobody is even talking about it anymore. Trump wasn’t the “ANTI-GeNoCIdE” candidate, and anyone with half a brain knew that ensuring Trump’s candidacy was not going to stop GENOCIDAL REGIMES.
Now we have President Pump n Dump promoting a shitcoin for his inauguration, because the SCOTUS wrote Trump a blank check for corruption. Anyone idiot enough to believe Trump was gonna stop genocide should go long on his memecoin.
You’re missing the point. No one thought Trump was the “anti-genocide” candidate. The people who DO care about Palestine knew that Biden was arming and facilitating genocide, and they heard Harris when she promised more of the same. Trump also supporting the genocide clearly wasn’t enough to get lots of those people to vote against him. You can call them stupid, or short-sighted, or whatever names you want, but the reality is that it’s not enough to point at the GOP and say that they’re also pro-genocide.
I voted for Harris, but I think that they’re missing the point. They needed to win over more people with their candidate. You still have to be popular and you don’t have a divine mandate because your opposition is intolerable.
I am a demographic Dems claim to champion, but I haven’t ever seen that support materialize. Somehow they never help me. I vote Dem because I like Rep less. I get not liking Dem as a party. I don’t like them either. This is very prevalent within my communities. It drives voter apathy and pushes moderates to the right. They’re viewed as incompetent in addition to being just bought and paid for as Reps.
They haven’t had a genuine primary in decades. They haven’t tried to connect with small-midsize cities in decades. They’ve completely failed to communicate with their average voters and that is THEIR job to do that. The last minimum wage increase was signed into law by Bush and then Dems sat on their thumbs for three terms. I do not accept “I tried.” I need a party that can win those battles. I’ve tried engaging with my local Democrats, but I get boilerplate responses. I’m fairly sure they’re all chatbots at this point.
And most importantly, it’s hard to root for a perpetual loser. Even when they win they still lose and can’t do anything. It’s never their fault. They just never do anything. I need someone intelligent enough to win. Dems don’t provide that.
They’ll get my vote until anyone else who isn’t a Rep/Fascist has a chance of winning and not a moment longer. It’s so wholly undemocratic that I have to choice between a Kleptocrat or a Fascist.
deleted by creator
the key breakdown here is: people concerned for the health of the country either voted for trump or kamala. Everybody else didn’t vote because they either don’t care, or would rather bitch about other things for no particular reason.
It truly is the biggest shitpost of the century.
In a capitalist society, the role of government should be to protect citizens from corporations.
If nobody is willing to do that, what use are they?
yes please.
Three things are needed for this to work: labor, capital, and
governmentauthorized violence.The first got destroyed, and the second used the third to get bigger than ever.
So we went from a tricycle to a penny farthing and now we’re falling over.
The government is a tool of the capitalist class in a capitalist society. Democracy was originally for the capitalists and their allies and now is a hedge against revolution.
Neoliberalism is done, it’s fucked. The liberals wanted and thought they could pull another Bernie and people would just go with it, fuck that.
You clearly have no idea what neoliberalism is if you think it has anything to do with liberals or, even more, with Bernie Sanders.
Reading comprehension is hard, but I believe you can get there someday.
The left is fucked overall, they have splintered and hate each other more than they hate trump. Meanwhile the right is united.
This election in particular, the American left has become toxic. If you’re even slightly left or right of any other leftist and you may as well be a nazi to them. No leftist was left enough for the other leftists. “No, I’m the true left, and fuck the rest of you, you’re fascists!” Was basically what every leftists was yelling at each other while not voting, and allowing trump to win. If you’re left and you stood aside and didn’t vote, fuck you.
The left doesnt exist in America my dude. Read what the other commenters that replied to you said, I agree with them. There is neoliberalism and fascism. Thats why Bernie was and is still popular.
Run on healthcare, stopping the genocide, run on raising wages, and anything really to help workers and people and you win easily.
Bullshit. Run on healthcare and ending genocide in Palestine. Those two issue alone would catapult a candidate into office. The Left has a lot of unfortunate infighting. That doesn’t mean we would reject a good candidate over small differences.
Neoliberals will say the most racist things and then act like you have a moral imperative to never criticize their policies.
I think it’s just a vocal minority that is overrepresented online causing the issues, but I promise that’s why most of my extended family votes for Trump.
The Democrat aristocracy do not care about winning.
They only care about marketing the disaster of their losses so that they can launder billions of dollars in “vote blue” spam campaigns.
All those donations are going somewhere - to “consultancy firms”. To “ad agencies”. And then they get to enjoy kickbacks from this mutual relationship.
THEY DON’T NEED TO WIN TO RAKE IN BILLIONS.
and so they don’t even try.
deleted by creator
Left vs right or democrat vs republican — that framing is a distraction in this political reality. The war is between the 99% and the 1%. It’s the working class vs the billionaire class. Your republican neighbor may be a MAGA religious crazy, voting against his financial interests, but he’s been successfully manipulated by a corrupt party controlled by billionaires. Your other neighbor may ‘vote blue no matter who’, ignoring or ignorant to the fact that most democrats at the state and federal level are also influenced or bought by corporate interests and the 1%. These neighbors are clearly not the same, but they are both supporting the interests and agenda of a billionaire class that is oppressing them.
That is not to say that republicans or religious extremism are not threats — they very much are — but they have been allowed to gain power due to a broken and corrupt system of government.
The system is broken because unlimited money gets funneled into politics. It’s destroyed our checks and balances, as well as the incentive structure for our judges and our representatives — most of whom no longer have a primary interest in representing the 99% of us. We are being taxed, robbed, poisoned, oppressed and enslaved by our own government, without even proper representation to show for it.
We cannot expect that our elected representatives will act in our best interests; they require our constant input and scrutiny of their actions. Either we as a people become more involved with politics at all levels of government, or we start a revolution. The problem of corruption in all levels of our government will not be solved by the corrupted. A continuation and increase of wealth inequality will destroy this country.
The corporate-backed fascist MAGA-America regime starts tomorrow, but we are not powerless. The 99% has power. We must come together, organize, educate, exercise empathy and patience with one another, and take action; we can take back control. We have to.
The 99% has power only if we seize it.
We have set ourselves up for generational loss because we keep promoting from within leaders that that do not criticise the moneyed interests
Evergreen quote-
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” - Upton Sinclair
What funny is everyone knows for a fact what lesson they should’ve learned, and if you ask 3 people they will give you 5 contradicting answers, every single one of which will be the most important strategy advice that stupid dems don’t see. It will usually can be boiled into “They need to focus on this specific issue and only on it, to the detriment of all the others”.
All voters say Democrats should cut ties with big corporations and focus on economic populism. Taxing big corporations not identity politics whilst giving corporations a tax break.
Bernie Sanders is what people would have voted for. There is no confusion. The Democratic party does not “understand” this because they do not want to understand it.
In this political environment, when the corporations are the kingmakers, you can’t afford to not be a corporatist. Democrats and Republicans are both very pro-business, but big business likes the Republicans better because they are completely mask-off about letting them do whatever they like, while the Dems have to pretend they care about stuff like regulations to appease their voters.
Bernie, or someone like him, is essentially fighting an uphill battle. You can’t take money from corporations, while simultaneously having to defend yourself from far-right extremist slander and the DNC actively trying to sabotage you so they can replace you with a corporatist. Meanwhile, Trump can be the big tent and get everybody in bed with him because the right will clearly stoop to any level to win and businesses have no scruples about who sits in the chair as long as they get a return on their investment.
It’s frustrating. Maddening. We are completely screwed for the foreseeable future unless Trump manages to fuck up even worse than he did in his first term or a grassroots left wing movement really gets going in time for the next election, presuming the institution of voting isn’t completely ratfucked or dismantled by then.
this. Biden was relatively famous for making bad deals with repubs in congress, but somehow once those audaciously bad deals were made, the individual house and senate representitives votes to empower those bad deals materialized on the dem side of the chambers. Just out of thin air. So the rot goes far deeper than DNC and Biden. A good percentage of the party also needs cleaning out, along with the republicans. More or less this entire system is trash. Their oaths of office are a joke.
If this is true then we’re well and truly an oligarchy.
Well, Bernie participated in two primaries, and in both cases he demonstrably, objectively lost the popular vote, which means that people did not vote for him.
Which is exactly what I am talking about, your idea sounds good to you, but you base it on your vibes, and numbers tell the different story apparently.He lost in 2020 because of a coordinated campaign to get all the centrist candidates except Joe Biden to drop out, while Warren stayed in as a progressive candidate against Bernie.
They did this precisely because he was on track to win the popular vote among the Democratic base. No candidate was set to win a majority of the popular vote, but Bernie was looking at a clear plurality.
Bernie WAS winning the popular vote until the DNC deliberately prevented him from doing so.
That’s a very interesting theory that for some reason circulates around.
It has nothing to do with reality, both because in the final roaster there were both Bloomberg and Buttigeg, who got 3 million and a million votes respectively, and who aren’t exactly paragons of the leftist values, and also because more people voted for Biden than for every other candidate combined, he got 4 million votes more than Bernie, Warren, Bloomberg, and Buttigeg combined.
I don’t know where did you got all those theories, but they once again, seem to not correlate with reality.It would be a nice story, in theory, but unfortunately in reality in 2020 finals there also were such bastions of leftist values like Bloomberg and Buttigieg. Which still would not matter because Biden got more votes than all the other candidates combined.
Which once again brings us to the question, where are all the Bernie voters that are suppose to bring his victory? Do they don’t know how to vote, do they too apathetic to do that or do they just not exist?
Ignore the sabotage from the DNC for this narrative to work
The whole thing about popular vote (I repeat, popular vote) is that whatever you think about the process of actually choosing candidate, and whatever trickery the DNC did, it does not affect how the popular vote went. There could be something to your words if there was a popular vote swinging one way and electoral picking swinging the other, but it wasn’t the case. All the millions people who in your mind would vote for Bernie didn’t show up to do it twice. Either that because they don’t vote and don’t know how democracy works, or because they don’t exist I don’t know, and I leave it up to you to decide which is worse.
You clearly didnt see what happened or what the DNC did.
Its not that people like this dont see it, its that they desperately dont want to see it. Cognitive Dissonance is very unpleasant. It makes you start doubting everything related to the concept in question, which is overwhelming even for the best of us.
Yes exactly, but that doesnt give people permission to project their mental illness onto others. They instead need to look within themselves to see why they so desperately need to stay attached to their dissonance.
Did they personally brake the legs of all the leftist voters so they don’t vote for their preferred candidate? Or did they just run a campaign against him and all the passionate Bernie voters just decided to believe their campaign and not vote for him?
I don’t see an explanation here that supports that “Bernie would won the election” narrative.
And I don’t think it’s a good thing, I totally agree that he would be the best president US ever saw and he absolutely, unequivocally was the best candidate with the best ideas. I just don’t believe american voting population wants what’s best for them, there is much to be done to undone centuries of capitalist propaganda. But this work doesn’t start with escaping into fantasy world, it stops there.They didnt even give Bernie camera time, you are ignorant beyond belief my god
Doesn’t really seem like America really wants to cut ties with big corporations, seeing how people are voting. Nor identity politics for that matter, seems more important than ever among the right wing. Just that their identity politics is of a different kind.
I’m not saying I know wether it would be a good idea to actually do what you’re proposing. But I think people are way to quick to know the solution. Because it resonates with their own beliefs.
People aren’t voting anti-corp if anti-corp isn’t even on the ballot
Anti-corp is not an issue where you either are, or you aren’t. It’s a scale. And people are voting for the party that is highest on the pro-corp scale in basically all of the world.
Makes it hard to believe that is such an important issue for people.
