Vincent Oriedo, a biotechnology scientist, had just such a question. What lessons have been learned, he asked, from Harris’s defeat in this vital swing county in a crucial battleground state that voted for Joe Biden four years ago, and how are the Democrats applying them?
“They did not answer the question,” he said.
“It tells me that they haven’t learned the lessons and they have their inner state of denial. I’ve been paying careful attention to the influencers within the Democratic party. Their discussions have centred around, ‘If only we messaged better, if only we had a better candidate, if only we did all these superficial things.’ There is really a lack of understanding that they are losing their base, losing constituencies they are taking for granted.”
“We have set ourselves up for generational loss because we keep promoting from within leaders that that do not criticise the moneyed interests. They refuse to take a hard look at what Americans actually believe and meet those needs.”
While that’s true, choosing to vote for Trump, a third-party, or not at all is like saying, “I don’t like this ham sandwich and I don’t like my sandwich choices… so I’m going to eat this dog-turds-and-radioactive-glass-shards sandwich instead!”
This country is fucked.
Edit: Rather than respond below to every comment, thought I’d clarify a few things here.
- I never said Democrats didn’t fuck up. They certainly did.
- But - and this is important - we can’t ignore the roles that racism, sexism, and above all misinformation played. To pretend there was none, and that vast swaths of the electorate didn’t fall for it, would be disingenuous.
Democrats have moved to the right, and hurt themselves doing so. That is true. But they are still objectively superior to Republicans in every conceivable way. People who voted Republican voted for the Leopards Eating People’s Faces party because they were angry about Democrats being imperfect, and their faces will be eaten.
You’re missing the lesson too, ironically.
The voters didn’t like what the Democrats were offering them, they wanted change, and they wanted it badly enough that they went ahead and ate that dog-turd-and-glass-sandwich.
You’re saying “they shouldn’t have eaten that, the sandwich the Democrats were offering was better.” Okay, well, they did it anyway. So you’re wrong. The Democrats were wrong. They’ve been wrong multiple times now. They’re doing the “Am I so out of touch? No. It’s the voters who are wrong.” Meme.
America’s a democracy. The voters aren’t wrong, as much as you might personally disagree with their choice. If you want a different government you have to offer them one that they’ll vote for. That may require some compromises, but that’s part of democracy.
I hope that they get it this time. This is the second time in recent memory that they’ve made this mistake. Even Biden’s election was closer than it should have been. I really hope that the DNC gets its head out of its ass and cleans house, but articles like this are disheartening.
I live in a deep blue state. Family is all very blue. They have learned absolutely nothing. They all think what the Democrats did was perfect. Kamala was flawless. She didn’t get elected because America is racist AND sexist.
They genuinely believe that there was nothing they could have done to improve.
I think they are gonna have to learn this lesson a few more times before they pull their heads outta their ass finally. I hope.
It won’t happen. Every election in the last 25 years, including midterms, where the democrats tried to play to “moderate republicans”, they got wiped out.
and they keep trying to dislodge “sane” republicans because they’d rather maintain centralized power than risk a grass roots movement distributing power to the masses. dyed in the wool democrats prefer fascism to meaningful reform
Obama was amazingly effective at the ballot box, but to the established Democratic power structure he was dangerous. Luckily for them he merged himself into their structure rather than maintaining his separate power base and taking on individual in-party resistors like Trump has, but it was a warning about what could happen and they took that lesson to heart. They do not want anything resembling another Obama.
Yep, that’s why Hillary was basically in control of the party via Debbie Wasserman-Shultz and how much the DNC effectively owed Clinton at that point.
People want to memory hole that aspect of it but it was 100% a response to the Obama presidency an attempt to grab a stranglehold on the party which she used to shut down Sanders and force her nomination. People often forget this is the same year the Republicans rejected Jeb Bush. America didn’t want Bush v. Clinton again, and Trump and Sanders were the only voices offering anything different. Democrats shut down their nascent progressive wing, and Trump just steamrolled the Republicans because he’s a fucking bully and those guys bend over and take it for bullies.
Typical leftist using the rigged theory just like MAGA.
You have to conclude that they’d rather chase after “moderate Republicans” and lose than chase after the left and win.
So if Dems are never left enough for you. Wouldn’t that mean they’re moderate. Which means they won in 06, 08, 12, 18, 20 and 22 being “moderate”.
They won in 2020 on the wake of protests and low-information voters who thought they’d be freeing the immigrant camps, defunding the police, codifying roe, and getting free healthcare.
They got wiped out in 22 by being moderate and getting fuckall done by trying to compromise with republicans for 2 years.
In 06 and 08, they were finally coming about against the Iraq war and promising things, unlike in 2004 where they simply said they would do the war more competently.
Her fascist border plan, embrace of genocide, and her running mate Liz Cheney were all great in their opinion? Wow. I need to talk to some Dems sometime.
I need to talk to some Dems sometime.
.world is here 24/7.
75 million votes
Biden got 80 million and won on a much more progressive platform (that he ignored when in office). Harris ran a conservative campaign that depressed her base in favor of appealing to republicans. It was some sorkin brained shit that obviously stupid and many of us were yelling about it at the time. We were right but Dems will never listen because they love corporate money more than winning or having a livable planet.
To be fair afaik Biden didn’t ignore his progressive platform. He definitely said things he then didn’t accomplish, but if I understand it right they were within the range of “all politicians lie” rather than having completely ignored his platform Obama-style.
Most pro-labour administration since FDR, but that still counted for nothing, apparently.
Ran on being compassionate to migrants, deported more than Trump and had Title 42 longer. Said he’d get rid of private prisons, those migrants end up in private prisons.
Ran on cleaning up Trumps mess with Covid, just declared it over with while Americans died in droves. Didn’t even try to mitigate it. His press secretary had the gall to laugh when a reporter suggested sending free tests which they ended up doing because of public pressure.
Ran on cleaning up Washington after Trump. Appointed the most useless man in the word Merrick Garland who sat on his fucking hands until Trump rehabilitated his image. Speed was key and Biden might just be responsible for the end of American democracy because of his lack of spine.
Ran on the energy from the George Floyd protests. Solved the problem of policing of black people by funding the living shit out of cops. I assume he is trying to drown them in money.
Then he funded the shit out of genocide that his base fucking hated. Just from a pragmatic point of view he should have stopped for the elections sake, but he did it anyways because he doesn’t think Palestinians are people.
I was Biden’s biggest fan after the IRA passed. Finally we are doing something for the environment. But that is all going to be undone because the fuck refused to step down so we could have a primary.
It counted for nothing because inflation was hurting the working class and Democrats are shit at messaging.
Because thats pretty debatable. Where was the Biden administration when the cops were breaking up the amazon strike? And Biden forced the rail union not to strike, right? And in the end years later gave them a fraction of what the strikers were going to demand, and called it victory. Typical centrist outcome.
She didn’t get elected because America is racist AND sexist.
This talking point is just so Democrats have an excuse to keep AOC out of the 2028 race in favor of some centrist turd barge.
What has AOC done that Kamala hasn’t?
Have positions to Biden’s left.
Kamala is way more unpopular and doesnt support progressive policies, Kamala is a neoliberal, not a progressive.
I like neoliberals
That’s obvious
What has AOC done that Kamala hasn’t?
Give a coherent speech. Talk about policy poistions. Pave her own way instead of riding on someone elses coattails. Have some basic principles and humanity. Have a staff that doesnt talk to the press about what a tyrant she is. Fight for whats right instead of what will bring in bribes.
The two couldnt be more different.
How does her dick taste?
Actually asked voters what they want rather than tell them bullshit lies.
Stood against the palestinian genocide
Wants universal health care. Pushed the green new deal.
The blue bubble is as heard to burst as the red bubble. My mom lives on msnbc. There is not a moment that its not on just like my dad lives on fox. They are completely in their own different worlds made of fiction. Dad thought there was no way Trump could loose to Biden just as my mom thought there was no way Hillary/Harris could loose to Trump. Both had no moment of realisation, no moment of reflection just disbelief that they live in a bubble. Its always someone else’s fault. Dad blamed the Democrats and mom blames the left.
To me it’s obvious that Chomsky was right about manufacturing consent.
MSNBC is liberal Fox News. They both are the circuses while the public is clamoring for breadcrumbs.
To me it’s obvious that Chomsky was right about manufacturing consent.
Always has been.
Your family is correct. America is racist and sexist. Asl yourself, after that debate and the several Trump fumbles on the campaign trail. Would you vote for him or Harris? Regardless if you thought she was perfect or not.
If you voted for Trump, you obviously didnt care about policy when every indication points to his being objectively worse. And I’m ready to argue that all day.
No. You’re showing the same fundamental misunderstanding the Democrats do.
If people are hurting, and one candidate says “I see you’re hurting, and I will do XYZ to help you” while another says “We’re all doing fine, nothing will change with me” - it’s no wonder people go with the former! Even if they are lying.
Harris has a lot of flaws, but America is absolutely racist and sexist, and Trump couldn’t have won otherwise. .
And thinking like this is why the democrats are going to continue to lose, and minorities and women will continue to get fucked for it.
Democrats, it’s the economy, stupid.
Well they don’t even have to decide they wanna eat a shit sandwich- they just have to not be motivated enough to go to the polls and say “I’d like the snot sandwich instead of the shit sandwich, please”. Which is what seems to have happened this election as best I’m aware
A lot of democratic voters weren’t motivated, and didn’t show up. And I agree with the statement made by the person quoted in the post, a huge part of that feels like it’s the democratic party’s complete unwillingness to criticize moneyed interests and figure out how to actually appeal to their constituency, and so they’re loosing people. And now we’re all stuck with that shit sandwich.
The voters aren’t wrong, as much as you might personally disagree with their choice.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
If only someone, or a group of like minded thinkers, had predicted this exact social course and offered another course that actually has ideological solutions for capital interests fucking over everything in their quest for more money and power!
I think a lot of the core of the Kamala base is just as out of touch as the Democratic establishment. The fact that the establishment can’t understand this outcome just demonstrates their ineptitude.
People are hurting, a lot. Real wage growth has been stagnant, people are having trouble making ends meet, the wealthy are richer than ever leaving the working class with less and less.
What do the Democrats do to actually improve peoples material conditions? Absolutely nothing. The CHIPS act and IRA are great for longer term problems, but does nothing to put more food on people table. Kamala had the gall to ignore the problem all together. The economy is great, look at the stock market! And her big economic plan? Tax breaks for small businesses and your first home purchase. That’s it. That’s their fucking cornerstone economic policy. That’s not gonna help the vast majority of people.
Then on the other hand you have trump. He tells everyone it’s the brown peoples fault everything sucks, so we will get rid of them (and, by implication, your problems). It’s their fault egg prices are high, just get rid of them and things will go back to the way things were. Of course the rich are the real problem, not immigrants or trans people or any other conservative boogie man, but Trump acknowledged the pain many working class Americans are under.
Now you can think to yourself, how would anyone believe that? Think about someone who’s working two jobs to make ends meet, they’re surrounded by Fox news, all their family is Republican. They were raised in the public education system (half the country can’t read at a 6th grade level) and can’t parse the details of domestic economic policy, but Trump says it’s the brown peoples fault. Finally they felt seen and acknowledged. They remember the Trump stimulus checks. They remember the tax break (even if it’s temporary, they won’t look too closely and notice it’s permeant for the rich).
You know how Democrats win? By bringing back the party of FDR and really championing the working class. Thanks to citizens united we will never see that again, but it’s quite easy to understand their loss against trump. There’s only one issue, and thats class conflict. Until the Democrats stop serving their corporate donors they will never win again as it’s too easy for Republicans to acknowledge working class pain and scapegoat marginalized people.
You know how Democrats win? By bringing back the party of FDR
At this point, I’d expect them to bring back Japanese internment camps and nothing else. I’d say redlining too, but that would involve having a housing program to be discriminatory with.
Wouldn’t surprise me either. Just understand that my point wasn’t that we should go back to the regressive social ideas of that era, but more so that we should return to supporting/expanding the welfare state at the expense of reducing the wealth of billionaires.
Just understand that my point wasn’t that we should go back to the regressive social ideas of that era, but more so that we should return to supporting/expanding the welfare state at the expense of reducing the wealth of billionaires.
Absolutely. I just can’t trust Democrats to do it anymore.
Because the Democrats jave just been a controlled opposition party since Regan.
Redlining was mainly a private-sector thing involving loan availability and insurance premiums. It wasn’t primarily to do with housing programs.
Redlining was an official policy of the Federal Housing Authority under Homer Hoyt.
Not reading all that. I’m apart of Kamala’s base of 75 million. I guess I’m out of touch and super wealthy according to you.
The fact that you so proudly claimed to not want to read yet decided to respond anyway makes you pretty out of touch. That last bit is just icing on the cake since they never claimed that.
You’re certainly out of touch if you won’t even read the explanation as to why you lost.
But I expect little else from the Khive.
Cry more
k then I’m not ready any of yours past “Im not reading all that”. Or any of your other comments either.
Too bad RCV is moving so slowly
Can’t imagine why politicians would be hesitant to mess with a system that put them in power.
RCV was on like 5 ballots last election and failed in each one. The VOTERS didn’t want it.
Neither centrists nor republicans want RCV, yeah. Republicans might lose and centrists might lose the ability to run as second worst to republicans.
In Nevada they tied RCV to independents being able to vote in primaries, instead of being its own bill. The carrot and stick approach upset a lot of people, including me.
Doesn’t matter anymore. I was gonna type “but genocide Joe” every time trump fucks over in some way the people who had a chance to vote for Kamala. But in the end, unity is far more important, division is how putin disarticulated his opposition.
I was gonna type “but genocide Joe” every time trump fucks over in some way the people who had a chance to vote for Kamala.
That would be a great demonstration that you have learned nothing.
I learned that Joe should have dropped out earlier and allowed proper primaries. You will miss “genocide joe” ;)
I learned that Joe should have dropped out earlier and allowed proper primaries.
Then type that instead.
Doesn’t matter, you’ll be lucky to vote again.
Democrats have moved to the right, and hurt themselves doing so. That is true. But they are still objectively superior to Republicans in every conceivable way. People who voted Republican voted for the Leopards Eating People’s Faces party because they were angry about Democrats being imperfect, and their faces will be eaten.
The problem you (people blaming voters) don’t seem to understand is, the Democrats moving right DIRECTLY demotivated voters and they stayed home because they were going to get right wing policy either way. They literally had no choice in multiple different avenues of how the country would be run so they said “fuck it if I got no choice for x y AND z, why vote?” maybe they still had a choice for a-w but maybe those specific policies didn’t matter to them personally and wouldn’t have affected their life.
This is A) the problem with having a shitty party platform and B) the problem with hyper-individualism that our country loves.
See, this is where you’re wrong. By every measure, the Democratic party platform was objectively better for humans living on planet Earth. Its problems were in degree (not being nearly progressive enough), not in focus (such as screaming incoherently about trans people).
But people didn’t know, because of the aforementioned misinformation and disinformation. Seriously, did you know that the party platform contains an entire section on protecting LGBTQI+ people and rights? Most progressive voters who sat this one out never read it. Here, see for yourself.
But because the Democratic party wasn’t progressive enough (in some people’s eyes), they sat out the election, and someone who is a thousand times worse in every respect is going to be president tomorrow.
I take that personally. I have a trans son and a gay daughter, and their lives will be so much worse, starting tomorrow. And to protect them, I’m actively trying to figure out how to leave this country, because a lot of people didn’t care enough to protect my kids.
In 1930’s Germany, the Jewish people (and Gypsies, and - again - gay and trans people, and so on) who survived when that country descended into fascism are the ones who got the fuck out first. That is the reality that this purity bullshit has created for people like my kids.
If the electorate doesn’t know a party’s platform, that’s the party’s problem. It’s literally their job to scream it from the rooftops.
And all I saw was democrats, like motherfucking Henry Cuellar, throwing the LGBTQ under the bus. Especially trans people.
If the electorate doesn’t know a party’s platform, that’s the party’s problem. It’s literally their job to scream it from the rooftops.
They did. Harris campaigned constantly, and contrary to the constant and incessant media narrative, she went into plenty of specifics.
It was all drowned out by Trump noise, and the media was 100% complicit.
And all I saw was democrats, like motherfucking Henry Cuellar, throwing the LGBTQ under the bus. Especially trans people.
Yes, Cuellar is an asshole, no argument there. But he was by no means the only Democrat on the campaign trail. Again, the media wouldn’t fucking give Democrats the time of day, because the 24-hour Trump clown show got the ratings.
We also shouldn’t dismiss the problem of sexism, some of it internalized. Back in 2008, I had the misfortune of meeting a woman who wasn’t sure who to vote for. She wanted to vote for McCain at the time, but was hesitant because she didn’t want a woman to be vice-president. (The fact that Sarah Palin was immensely unqualified didn’t matter, but the fact she had a vagina did.) That attitude is still a lot more common than people who live in largely progressive areas realize.
not in focus (such as screaming incoherently about trans people)
why is “trans people” always the example the centrists bring up, like its some sort of totem. Trans peoples rights are not exactly on very many peoples top 10 list of concerns, and I doubt many people could even name the rights trans people are fighting for and dems are supposedly helping with. Trans people are 1% of the population. If thats all we have for a convincing argument we’re doing politics wrong.
Bite me. I’m no fucking centrist. And maybe if you’d actually read my comment, you’d understand why trans issues are important enough for me to mention.
Edit: In light of this instant and predictable attack on my kids, I cordially invite anyone who is okay with Trump in office to “teach Democrats a lesson” to fuck themselves sideways with a pineapple.
DISINFORMATION, not misinformation.
People want real fucking change. One man stood up against a massive evil health insurance company and regular people from all sides of the political spectrum support him.
Dems could have won if they were willing to do the same and no one would even need to be hurt to do it.
Naturally, there are a host of other problems mentioned in this thread. The trouble is that there is too much free $peech from the ruling class in politics.
I think for people like me, the biggest fuck you was from Obama. He ran on hope and change. He ran on at least a public option. And he went into the office and literally shut down the ground operation that swept him into his position and then basically spent 8 years appeasing Republicans despite the fact that people wanted transformational change. That’s why they picked him over Clinton. He delivered Romneycare, bank bailouts, and drone wars.
Kamala was running on “Isn’t Trump a weirdo?”, but that was working so she stopped.
The DNC does not want to win if it means causing actual change.
They pivoted from “Trump is a weirdo” to “Dick Cheney likes us!” like the absolute morons they are.
I love how “We were too woke!”, and I"m like “Woke? Is that what you call having Thanksgiving with Penis Cheney?”
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Y’all stay on Obama’s dick.
Maybe you didn’t read that comment? I think you got it backwards.
and drone wars
I’d have been fine with the US killing even more Al-Qaida and Taliban members, even those that happened to be US citizens fighting alongside their comrades in a combat zone. Every single one of them would be about right. And if you’re squeamish about drones, let’s be real, you are really just squeamish about warfare, because every other form of killing in warfare is just as brutal and most are far more indiscriminate.
Also, as soon as Trump got in the first time, he changed rules of engagement to take less account of civilian casualties.
iirc technically Obama reduced counting of drone strike civillian casualties, Trump just stopped counting all together.
They want us to think real change is impossible.
Every breakdown and postmortem i see make it pretty clear:
If you paid close attention and were well-informed, you voted for Kamala.
If you believe things aren’t true or didn’t pay close attention, you voted for Trump as a sort of totem for wealth and success, not because of a specific policy of his you like. He just represents making lots of money to you.
Any grappling with what went wrong or improvements needed within the DNC first needs to reckon with the reality that people aren’t seeing left-wing messaging and are instead exposed to a fake version of leftism pushed constantly by right-wing actors on social media.
Everyone complains about poor Democratic messaging but when are we going to admit that as long as Republicans own all major media platforms, any messaging by Democrats is going to be distorted into nonsense by the media?
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I think a lot of people have problems with the Democratic Party being bought by the billionaires as well …and supporting genocidal regimes.
I voted for Harris but you boiled it down to a few lines and missed a lot of reasons why I think a significant amount of Americans didn’t vote at all.
I voted for Harris, but I think that they’re missing the point. They needed to win over more people with their candidate. You still have to be popular and you don’t have a divine mandate because your opposition is intolerable.
I am a demographic Dems claim to champion, but I haven’t ever seen that support materialize. Somehow they never help me. I vote Dem because I like Rep less. I get not liking Dem as a party. I don’t like them either. This is very prevalent within my communities. It drives voter apathy and pushes moderates to the right. They’re viewed as incompetent in addition to being just bought and paid for as Reps.
They haven’t had a genuine primary in decades. They haven’t tried to connect with small-midsize cities in decades. They’ve completely failed to communicate with their average voters and that is THEIR job to do that. The last minimum wage increase was signed into law by Bush and then Dems sat on their thumbs for three terms. I do not accept “I tried.” I need a party that can win those battles. I’ve tried engaging with my local Democrats, but I get boilerplate responses. I’m fairly sure they’re all chatbots at this point.
And most importantly, it’s hard to root for a perpetual loser. Even when they win they still lose and can’t do anything. It’s never their fault. They just never do anything. I need someone intelligent enough to win. Dems don’t provide that.
They’ll get my vote until anyone else who isn’t a Rep/Fascist has a chance of winning and not a moment longer. It’s so wholly undemocratic that I have to choice between a Kleptocrat or a Fascist.
Nobody cares about genocide, man. Nobody is even talking about it anymore. Trump wasn’t the “ANTI-GeNoCIdE” candidate, and anyone with half a brain knew that ensuring Trump’s candidacy was not going to stop GENOCIDAL REGIMES.
Now we have President Pump n Dump promoting a shitcoin for his inauguration, because the SCOTUS wrote Trump a blank check for corruption. Anyone idiot enough to believe Trump was gonna stop genocide should go long on his memecoin.
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No, you are missing the point. With the democrats, you had a chance of a better outcome. You have sympathetic representatives.
With the republicans, you will have better luck trying to convince a brick wall. Your logic is so faulty it’s bordering on trolling. Good luck with the Trump administration.
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Left wing messaging is all focused on logic and targeted to the well-informed. They have no emotional message for the poorly educated, and that’s a stupid mistake. I thought these were supposed to be the smart people? Zero EQ.
They didn’t vote for Trump as a totem of wealth and success. They voted for him as their embodiment of rage, performative cruelty and payback against all the people in the US who make them feel like backwards losers. They identify with him because he’s a raving asshole, and they instinctively kiss his ass because he presents himself as a grotesque WWE caracature of the rich.
We also need to consider that a massive swathe of the electorate is ignorant and for that includes a lot of people who have college degrees.
the key breakdown here is: people concerned for the health of the country either voted for trump or kamala. Everybody else didn’t vote because they either don’t care, or would rather bitch about other things for no particular reason.
It truly is the biggest shitpost of the century.
Trump pretty much won on optics alone and positioning himself once again as looking out for people despite not being true at all. Dems didn’t want to address people’s issues with the economy and did the weird thing of tap dancing for right Dick Cheney voters who don’t exist.
Just stand for something, even if the risk of loss is high. It pays off in the end.
I am convinced that the assassination attempt secured him the win. I’m not American so maybe I’m way off, but over here that felt like the pivotal moment. It’s still annoying how GOOD that picture is.
It helped bounce back with momentum. Harris was actually doing good when she was on the attack and pointing out how weird modern republicans are. Trump is the text book example of failing upwards.
Nah. At the moment it seemed like a really big deal but then it just kinda faded into the background after a news cycle. Nobody can tell you what day it happened on without googling.
Trump won on optics because the optics on the ground matched what he was saying. Democrats insisted the economy was fine when people were hurting, and lost because of that.
The slimy bullshit artist politician that lies about everything seems to be what people expect, like it’s the devil they know.
We have set ourselves up for generational loss because we keep promoting from within leaders that that do not criticise the moneyed interests
Evergreen quote-
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” - Upton Sinclair
Honestly I think this article is completely wrong. I’m convinced modern elections are 100% based on vibes and so better messaging and a better candidate would have meant a great deal.
But to add to that - Trump and his idiot base had been messaging and memeing for four years starting with Covid and masks and then inflation and ‘I did that’ stickers of Biden at the gas pump. Biden had barely done any messaging even up until the point he dropped out which, in the social media era, should be obviously big fucking warning signs of a losing campaign.
EDIT - which is not to say I don’t think the Dems need to change in other ways because they absolutely do.
Yes, Biden lost because of stickers, not because the economy of the average voter is in shambles
No, you’re missing the point - the Dems lost because Biden hadn’t built up any trust with average voters regarding the economy over the last four years.
Any informed voter would know the Dems will be better for them than the GOP who has never been more interested in funneling money to their rich benefactors. But the average voter is not informed.
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In a capitalist society, the role of government should be to protect citizens from corporations.
If nobody is willing to do that, what use are they?
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yes please.
Three things are needed for this to work: labor, capital, and
governmentauthorized violence.The first got destroyed, and the second used the third to get bigger than ever.
So we went from a tricycle to a penny farthing and now we’re falling over.
The government is a tool of the capitalist class in a capitalist society. Democracy was originally for the capitalists and their allies and now is a hedge against revolution.
Well, I’m not in denial. This country is full of fucking idiots. The next Democratic presidential candidate should be a celebrity that promises to achieve world peace and full gay space communism. Apparently empty promises and celebrity are what win elections.
I think you may have missed the point a bit. It’s exactly these ‘empty promises’ which have been the democrats issue over the past 30 years.
They get elected on messages like ‘make the economy work work everyday americans’ and then once in office they prioritize the status quo and making sure that nothing major changes. This benefits the wealth and damages everyday people, many of whom voted for them in the hopes that the democrats would improve their situation.
As awful as much of their platform is, the Republicans have proven that they aren’t scared to break things and make big changes. This appeals to many voters who feel let down by empty promises.
Democrats say good things for the people. Democrats win = Republicans just block everything and embarrass Democrats for it. Republican voters also go without understanding… The main thing is against the “enemy” (i.e. against America…)
Of course the Republicans only build shit and destroy America besides blocking everything good that would benefit the American citizen (you). But it was the Democrats… who accept a democratic election and after defeat. NOT block everything from Republicans. How deluded can you be.
Name one of those empty promises and let’s review how they were voted on in congress. If the Democrats voted against it then your comment has merit, if Republicans blocked it your comment has no merit
You don’t get to just blame the opposition for making sure nothing got done. Especially when the other party manages to succeed when they have power.
What are you even talking about? I do get to blame the Congress members who vote for or against something. That is your civic duty. What do you do, check boxes for funsies?
The failure of Democrats is their own. Giving them a pass because of Republicans is lazy. There’s always opposition.
So yeah, for funsies
Next? I’m sorry, but democracy continues to be dismantled. The train has left the station. Trump already had 4 years of training and now with direct support from Musk… Hate fear and more hate mongering…and Trump is using it… So are accusations of election meddling etc… fuck why hasn’t there been that accusation even from Democrats? That’s it… Its game over.
All those highly secured nuclear secrets or files in the restroom at the golf club… anyone who steals something like that… also steals/cheats in the election. But not 1 accusation… Republicans as well as Democrats don’t want democracy anymore. A convicted highly criminal traitor to the country and enemy of the state becomes president without riots etc… The Democrats who are now just pointing at the Republicans with “I told you so” but not doing a riot or anything else are just as hostile to democracy.
What you been smoking, my friend?
Left vs right or democrat vs republican — that framing is a distraction in this political reality. The war is between the 99% and the 1%. It’s the working class vs the billionaire class. Your republican neighbor may be a MAGA religious crazy, voting against his financial interests, but he’s been successfully manipulated by a corrupt party controlled by billionaires. Your other neighbor may ‘vote blue no matter who’, ignoring or ignorant to the fact that most democrats at the state and federal level are also influenced or bought by corporate interests and the 1%. These neighbors are clearly not the same, but they are both supporting the interests and agenda of a billionaire class that is oppressing them.
That is not to say that republicans or religious extremism are not threats — they very much are — but they have been allowed to gain power due to a broken and corrupt system of government.
The system is broken because unlimited money gets funneled into politics. It’s destroyed our checks and balances, as well as the incentive structure for our judges and our representatives — most of whom no longer have a primary interest in representing the 99% of us. We are being taxed, robbed, poisoned, oppressed and enslaved by our own government, without even proper representation to show for it.
We cannot expect that our elected representatives will act in our best interests; they require our constant input and scrutiny of their actions. Either we as a people become more involved with politics at all levels of government, or we start a revolution. The problem of corruption in all levels of our government will not be solved by the corrupted. A continuation and increase of wealth inequality will destroy this country.
The corporate-backed fascist MAGA-America regime starts tomorrow, but we are not powerless. The 99% has power. We must come together, organize, educate, exercise empathy and patience with one another, and take action; we can take back control. We have to.
The 99% has power only if we seize it.
I think that the Liberal ideology, with a capital L, is what is being revolted and rebelled against at a very fundamental level by a majority of America. But the Democrats can’t see it,
The average American has no idea what Liberalism actually is. Half the country believe the lie that the lifelong neoliberal / “traditional conservative” Joe Biden is “leftist” ffs.
Americans are the most heavily propagandized, and poorly educated, population in the developed world.
“The things Harris said, like she was going to give $25,000 for people to buy their first home, there were a lot of people said she was giving their money away to people who didn’t deserve it. It cost her votes. We were trying to tell her that.”
What’s the answer to that? On the face of it, this says that the electorate don’t want public money spent on helping other people who need help. How do you achieve anything other than conservatism with such an electorate? The only thing I can think is that you have to promise to help more of the electorate, and that the money will be come from the very rich. In other words, the only counter to conservatism is a commitment to actual wealth redistribution, and to going up against the selfish interests of the super-rich. That’s not yet even socialism, but it’s still further to the left that the Democratic Party is willing to go. For now, its leadership would rather lose elections to fascists than challenge billionaires.
Giving everyone 25K means housing prices go up by 25K. It was a very bad idea and would benefit the billionaire class.
What should have been done was capping rent and building more houses.
It wasn’t “give everyone 25k”
Be more disingenuous.
Indeed only people who use it to buy a house. If everyone has 25K more, then housing prices go up by 25K.
How did you transmute “25k for families that haven’t missed a bill payment in 2 years and who are buying their first home” into “everyone getting 25k to buy a home”?
Do you just disagree with whatever endgame you imagine she’s reaching for, and are speaking to that? Like that policy is just shorthand for something like “everyone gets free money” and that would be bad, so her policy is bad?
How do you transmute giving everyone free money into fixing a housing crisis?
The solution is extremely obvious, and has been done many times: government funded social housing.
Giving people more money to buy a house does not create houses out of thin air. It does not fix a supply shortage, it only exacerbates the crisis.
Making it non-viable for housing to be an investment asset would be more effective. Social housing is perpetually underfunded, and big centralized schemes invariably lead to social problems because of the ineffectiveness of central planning and the failure to involve the actual people living in the housing in the design of the projects. Also, the vast sums of money involved become pork for the big construction firms.
The shortcoming of that is the decades of decline as you destroyed the largest store of wealth people had up to that point.
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First time buyers have had bonuses across the U.S. for years. It absolutely has nothing to do with house prices being higher. Texas does it, Tennessee, Florida, California… Probably everywhere
And the point is by offering up X dollars you increase the aberage price of homes rather than making them more affordable.
You know, I was being facetious, I didn’t actually want you to be more disingenuous…
Capitalism doesnt work, the end. Need a new and better system, not keep contributing to said system
Are… you lost?
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In the meantime, other societies manage it better than we do. Maybe do more of that while we’re coming up with an entirely new economic system?
Capping rent makes more housing less likely. Are you suggesting government built housing?
Not allowing one or two private equity firms to own a lions share of the market would help.
Government built housing is how the UK solved the problem last time. Then Thatcher sold it off and there hasn’t been any real interest in doing it again despite all the same problems coming back.
iirc its not so much a lack of interest as we literally banned local municipalities from building more (not straight up but we banned the mechanism by which they were doing it)
Yeah that will do it
Non profit housing, be it through companies owjed by the municipality or cooperatives who provide housing to their members are very effective means to limit rents and provide housing.
In many European countries it used to be normal for a large part of the rental market to be in the hand of such entities or even housing built to be buyed to own by lower middle class families.
Incidently rents started exploding after a lot of these got privatized in the 80s to 00s.
That’s why you only cap rents on buildings that have existed for some time.
Businesses do not plan for 30 years or more in the future. If landlords can’t make an acceptable rate of return within 30 years, they’re not going to build a new house or apartment building.
So you can attach rent control provisions to buildings that are over a few decades old, and it will have zero impact on the financing and construction of new housing. It will only affect buildings after they’ve long since been built and paid for.
You do have to worry about rent controls discouraging landlords from keeping buildings maintained. But that’s why good rent control doesn’t cap rent, but simply limit the rate of increase. If a landlord can afford to keep a building maintained today, they will be able to keep it maintained in the future, even if rent increases are capped to the rate of inflation.
If anything, smart rent controls like this actually encourage the construction of new housing. By limiting rent increases on old buildings, you encourage landlords to knock them down and replace them with bigger and newer buildings that can be rented at any rate. In unregulated markets, landlords can increase profits by colluding to suppress the construction of new housing stock. Why invest the money in new buildings if you can just increase the rents on existing buildings by conspiring to prevent new buildings from being built? Smart rent controls mean that if landlords want to see their profits increase at any rate higher than inflation, then they will need to actually build new housing units.
Can ypu provide an academic source that supports your claim regarding “smart rent controls” or are you just pulling this from the ether?
I would suspect that once you knock down a building you’ll replace it with luxury housing as you’ll profit much faster as construction is remarkably expensive. I suspect the results of ypur idea is many times fewer affordable homes being available in the long run as landlords are continually looking to make back their latest investment.
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A few conservative pundits attacked it from the “undeserving” angle. The actual base didn’t give a damn. The actual base thought it was a useless and tone-deaf figleaf of a policy. It was a wonkish policy only a milquetoast centrist could love - a market subsidy that had a long litany of provisos and qualifications. And one that economists stated would just serve to bid house prices up even higher.
The voters didn’t reject progressive wealth redistribution. They rejected half-baked meaningless gestures.
Neoliberalism is done, it’s fucked. The liberals wanted and thought they could pull another Bernie and people would just go with it, fuck that.
The left is fucked overall, they have splintered and hate each other more than they hate trump. Meanwhile the right is united.
This election in particular, the American left has become toxic. If you’re even slightly left or right of any other leftist and you may as well be a nazi to them. No leftist was left enough for the other leftists. “No, I’m the true left, and fuck the rest of you, you’re fascists!” Was basically what every leftists was yelling at each other while not voting, and allowing trump to win. If you’re left and you stood aside and didn’t vote, fuck you.
Bullshit. Run on healthcare and ending genocide in Palestine. Those two issue alone would catapult a candidate into office. The Left has a lot of unfortunate infighting. That doesn’t mean we would reject a good candidate over small differences.
The left doesnt exist in America my dude. Read what the other commenters that replied to you said, I agree with them. There is neoliberalism and fascism. Thats why Bernie was and is still popular.
Run on healthcare, stopping the genocide, run on raising wages, and anything really to help workers and people and you win easily.
Neoliberals will say the most racist things and then act like you have a moral imperative to never criticize their policies.
I think it’s just a vocal minority that is overrepresented online causing the issues, but I promise that’s why most of my extended family votes for Trump.
You clearly have no idea what neoliberalism is if you think it has anything to do with liberals or, even more, with Bernie Sanders.
Reading comprehension is hard, but I believe you can get there someday.
SHE HAS A VAGINA. THAT’S ALL IT TOOK. DEMOCRATS DIDN’T MISS THE MARK. SHE JUST HAS A VAGINA AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC WONT PUT ANYONE WITH A VAGINA IN THE WHITEHOUSE.
People stayed home because of Gaza and the economy but yeah it’s definitely because Harris is a woman.
It’s a combination of all of those factors, plus others. People try to point to one thing, but a whole bunch of people didn’t vote for her for a whole bunch of reasons.
Yeah, in 2016 it was so close any singular failing could have been the one that turned a win to a loss, but after this last one it’s multiple.
And they all sort of reinforce themselves. Seeing Democrats abandon one political principle and then seeing them being weak on one that’s close to home will make you less willing to accept it’s just a messaging choice. And all of that on top of the general economic malaise and lack of punishment for bad people in positions of power and something you might have let go becomes the final straw.
How many voters do you think can find Gaza on a map?
But they sure can see that Harris is a woman.
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“didn’t change anything”
- “that mattered to me personally”
Which is exactly how you know that all the hand-waving over Israel is largely performative. If you are not affected by domestic issues and the Really Bad Shit about to hit the fan then you can afford to be Very Very Concerned about issues that don’t affect you directly and personally.
Not all of us have that luxury.
You’ll find many outlets reporting on this all citing the same poll, but here’s one.
LOL. Nice headline there. Not biased at all nope.
Harris didn’t “back” Israel’s genocide. She just failed to be sufficiently performative in her condemnation of it and failed to distance herself from her own administrations pro-Israeli policies. If you think that’s not all hand-waving and that somehow Trump will be less supportive of Israel’s genocide I have some gold colored sneakers for sale.
She did condemn it to be sure, but not enough to pass the purity test of those here in the US who felt that that acting against that genocide was far and away more important than preventing Americas rapid descent into a Christo-fascist oligarchy. Which, not incidentally, will happily support Israel’s complete and total erasure of the Palestinian people.
Well done! Good job!
They did-fucking-not. They stayed home because she’s a woman. Just like they did in 2016. End of fucking story. The rest is just political writers needing clicks to survive.
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And angry people in denial who STILL feel a need to parade their concern like it’s a fucking medal.
You’re literally doing exactly what this post complains about. The overwhelming sentiment of Harris replacing Biden was change - her campaign ran on that - yet she had basically all the same stances/policies a Biden, especially where it mattered to the voterbase (I.e. Gaza). She had an opportunity to diverge from Biden’s less popular platform, but chose not to, and it cost her the election. That’s the rub.
As for 2016 - people did turn out for Hilary. She won the popular vote by a significantly higher margin than Harris.
And as for 2020, Biden only won so easily because Trump’s woefully incompetent response to Covid19 was still in recent memory - and even that still resulted in a smaller margin than Obama’s first term.
Biden got 81 million votes, hasn’t been done since.
Firstly, I should clarify that I’m looking at % margin, not absolute, as it better accounts for voter turnout.
Secondly, if you want to go by absolute votes, then it’s worth noting that more people voted for Harris than voted for Hillary or Obama (who both won the popular vote).
She had the 3rd highest vote count in history, but that means nothing when she lost to Trump with the 2nd highest vote count in history.
She was battling Trump at the height of his popularity and needed the same turnout as 2020 Biden, but that simply wasn’t going to happen. As I said previously 2020 Biden had Covid19 on his side, and didn’t have the baggage of this election (I.e. Gaza).
Biden abdicating his candidacy to Harris was a brilliant opportunity for her to lift off the baggage Biden was carrying into the 2024 election (which he was predicted to lose), but she didn’t - and as such she lost as predicted.
Her loss had nothing to do with her being a woman, and much more to do with Democrats being out of touch and relying on Republican fearmongering to get people to turn out.
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yeah funny how the dems can turn out for a joe biden who sucks in 2020 but not for a hillary clinton or a kamala harris who suck in 2016 and 2024. like yes, people sat out for a wide host of reasons, but there’s a very glaring pattern that’s very easy to see
Biden ran on progressive economic policy and a generally satisfactory platform. People had a problem with his age, but he didn’t suck, not in the same way Harris and Hillary did.
the lack of criticism for how centrist and shitty joe biden, just like hillary and kamala, is kind of exactly what i’m talking talking about. they all three suck in basically all the exact same ways. of all the candidates to run in 2020 primaries, he was basically the worst one. kamala was actually more progressive than him. but yet, here we are. arguing that he ran left of Kamala’s 2024 bid. and before you bring up palestine, they’ve all been shit on that subject since 2006 at least, so drop it. that’s not why kamala lost at the end of the day. it’s that joe biden was allowed to win as a mediocre white man in 2020, but kamala had to do everything perfect to be viable in the eyes of those 19 million voters who stayed home, especially in the swing states where people absolutely mobilized to get out the vote for an overtly fascistic and racist orange candidate
they all three suck in basically all the exact same ways.
No they didn’t. Biden ran on progressive policy written by Sanders; Harris ran on including Republicans in her cabinet and finishing the border wall.
so drop it.
No I won’t. 29% of people who voted Biden in 2020 and stayed home in 2024 cited it as the top reason they stayed home. It is part of the reason Harris lost because she didn’t promise to do anything different from Biden while Trump did (and seemingly kept his promise for once).
BIDEN IS A TALL WHITE MAN. THAT’S WHY HE WON. THAT’S WHAT IT TAKES TO WIN IN THIS IDIOT INFESTED COUNTY.
- MAN
- WHITE
- TALL
NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.
Obama was president for eight years.
SEE NUMBERS 1 AND 3 ABOVE.
You learned nothing.
Fucking sigh.
This is bait haha no way it’s real
You’re wrong: the biggest cunt is going into the Whitehouse
The small concession is that Trump is almost undoubtedly going to trip over his dick, so we’ll probably end up with a blue wave of some sort in 2028. Nothing will change for the DNC and no lessons will be learned, so 2032 looks bleak as shit.
We need to understand that Dems are not going to fight for anyone besides their donors. They’d rather lose than take pointers from someone like Bernie
