Keep it polite, folks. No personal attacks against others, especially speculations regarding mental or emotional capabilities.
Lol don’t give them any attention. It’s the same 3 people who didn’t get loved enough during their formative years and cannot distinguish between good attention and bad attention
All three of them are Lunduke.
But lunduke doesn’t hate Linux. Only the fact that women are using it.
Idk if this is a joke or not.
Based on his more recent content, it’s almost serious.
Meh. I have no issues with novelty accounts/ projects that are taking the piss.
Some of those posts are decent jokes to be honest. Some are just desperate/scare tactics though.
I thought it was a satiric thing - is it meant to be seriously?
The owner once said they were not a meme community in a post. Empirical evidence disagrees.
I’m not sure. Some posts legitimately seem like Linux users making fun of themselves. Others really seem like people who have an actual grudge against it.
Ehh, it’s not like Linux is perfect. And if we want more Linux adoption it’s good to have different perspectives and be made aware of things that perhaps we haven’t thought of. It could be useful to vent about Linux through memes if we can have proper discourse and are willing to work collaboratively to solve issues.
a satirical linuxsucks would be so funny, like making fun of Linux for not having enough LLM integrations and ads
Why do we want more Linux adoption? I think that’s part of the problem. There is no reason to try to oversell Linux. If someone doesn’t want to use Linux and they don’t ask to about it you shouldn’t just randomly show up and say to use Linux.
If someone is complaining about windows, or raising privacy concerns that Linux would solve, or just talking about price options, then I think it’s perfectly fair to mention Linux.
Right now the biggest issue with Linux is that some software is not made for it. With more Linux market share, devs have a higher incentive to build software for Linux. Like imagine if videogame devs didn’t think they needed windows to work, or Mac to run adobe.
They’re very serious. Or a very dedicated troll. Or both.
I got banned from that community when I said that I had no trouble playing any Steam or Heroic Launcher games. I also said I don’t play any AAA slop and especially any rootkit shit.
If it was satire, they wouldn’t have taken offense at that.
If you satirically make a community about the Earth being a triangle, users who actually believe it will pop up eventually.
linux is terrible because removing the entire root folder can brick your system it should be more like windows where removing system32 can brick your system
The mention of UEFI in this context likely means they are thinking of a deletion recursing through sysfs and by extension deleting all visible UEFI variables which, in some firmware editions and versions, causes it not to be able to get through post or into the setup menu.
I vaguely recall this and the general issue was very bad firmware design, but it was possible to make it impossible to even reinstall a system. If you were industrious in windows you could have done the same thing, so malware under windows could also brick such platforms.
Of course rm has more safeguards on it so you have to pass more flags and really really be asking it to try to screw things up.
Like you said, it was just some early implementations of UEFI. I haven’t heard of anything like this happening recently.
Also the kernel makes those variable immutable by default now, except the well known standard ones, so even for buggy UEFI this is mitigated nowadays. Just pointing out it came from a once legitimate space as a consequence of “everything is a file in a monolithic file namespace”. Which on the one hand is bad if someone uses rm with all sorts of flags to overrule the “you don’t want to do this” protections in the utility. On the other hand what you accidentally managed to do in Linux represented a problem that windows malware could have exploited.
Also the kernel makes those variable immutable by default now
More specifically it has done that for the last 8 years :-D
Nice to know.
So, I would assume the firmware gave write access to a part of permanent memory, critical to starting the system.
I feel like that would be someone like me, thinking of it as a feature and giving the possible values for those variables in the readme. And of course, who reads the readme even though it says “READ ME”?
UEFI defines a structured way to have data shared with OS as read write variables, including the ability to create, modify, and delete variables that UEFI can see.
However, some firmware used this facility to store values and then their code assumed the variables would always be there. The code would then crash when it goes to read a deleted variable and not know what to do. The thing is deleting those variables per spec is a perfectly valid the due the OS to do, but firmware was buggy and the bugs not caught because normally OS would not bother those variables except for a few standard popular ones, like boot order.
I see, in that case, that would not be someone like me :P as I tend to care about specifications.
This is a really useful explanation for someone who doesn’t know about the UEFI spec.
So flashing the firmware would “solve” the issue? As in, it should rewrite the variables missing (and everything else), making the hardware usable again?
Generally speaking, these platforms are not flashable unless they can boot a flash utility, assuming that whatever prior firmware is running is at least in good enough shape to boot to an update environment.
There are designs to be robust and accessible even in the face of all this, but relatively rare, effectively unheard of in laptop market. Even some of those emergency recovery environments may be more limited than you would like to repair this sort of thing.
I was going to ask why anybody would want to move the root directory and where to but it was a joke right?
I’m a bit bias right now because I tried to install PopOS on a partition last night to see if i could play with it and make a media server. My VPN client failed to install properly, corrupted the OS and when I booted back to the live disk (Rufus made USB) I was able to format the partition but no longer install to it. The boot loader no longer works and it can’t get into any OS now.
I have to say I haven’t had this problem before, but working in IT and installing Windows on over 10 thousand computers in my career, this has happened to none.
(I’ll try another installer likely and format the partition over and see if another bootloader like grub will take and fix the issue).
Edit: changed course and said fuck it… formatted the entire drive and so much for the other data that was there. Clean install maybe the VPN client won’t botch everything this time.
Bootloader no worky can be caused by a hundred different issues. The installer may have removed the kernel or a CPIO archive (initramfs or processor microcode) that the bootloader needs. You could be missing some EFI program. If the boot entry is set to identify the root filesystem by its UUID, formatting/reinstalling would have changed the real UUID and then the bootloader wouldn’t be able to find it. Maybe installing the OS simply wiped or damaged that partition.
If you have to reinstall the OS, you should also reinstall the bootloader (the OS installer usually lets you do that from the GUI), or if you’re confident, update the boot entries to reflect the state of the computer. I strongly recommend using btrfs as your root filesystem instead of ext4, and use Timeshift to set up regular snapshots (btrfs) or backup clones (ext4) in case this happens again.
Darn, wish I would have read this prior to restarting the install after wiping the disk. I would have tried btrfs, it defaulted to ext4 as the machine was using mbr previously and not uefi for the boot, so I Rufus popped up with ext4 recommended and I ran with it
Ext4 is still perfectly fine. It’s a mature technology, and much more stable than btrfs. Your experience will not be any different because of this.
I still recommend using Timeshift. The only downside is that only the Rsync backup method will be available, which creates a full on-disk copy of your system files.
Thanks I’ll try it out once I set up the media server and figure out storage setup. Right now it just has an old 256ssd (sata) for the boot drive, originally was just taking 50gb for that and was going to use old 7200 drives for media storage. I assume I’ll need to have the time shift backups running to one of the other drives or it would be useless if the drive dies.
Yes, it’s best to store them on a separate hard drive. The target partition must be formatted as a Linux filesystem (ext2/3/4 or btrfs) in order to retain file ownership and permissions. I have a 512 GB partition on a hard drive reserved for the last three weekly backups and never ran out of space.
How is this not a joke community, like the Lunduke videos?
I thought the same at first, then I started to think the main person was just trolling, now I’m pretty sure they’re actually serious
Well, Lunduke is making hour long nuanced content just with baity titles. And he doesn’t spend a portion of his days on banning people and sending snarky comments. This is mostly shitposting, ragebait and wrong factual claims…
I love how he complains about being “brigaded” when the most comments on any post in the community is like 8.
That, and due to the relatively small nature of the fediverse, simply being in the new tab makes things likely to be seen for quite a bit, enough for ~8 users to come in and explain how backwards they’re being.
The community definitely has been brigaded though, as every single post (except one that is negative to Microsoft) has been downvoted to oblivion.
‘Brigading’ would be if pro-Linux communities were organizing to specifically target another community.
The fediverse is likely to attract the kinds of people interested in Linux in the first place, and all the negative attention that community attracts comes organically.
I talked with the user a bit in Linux_vs_Windows before they were booted from the community, and it’s my opinion that they just have a hate-boner going for Linux. It’s possible to have valid criticism of Linux, but they go way past legitimate and straight into obsession territory. They tend to post in that community daily. So their points aren’t exactly great (though sometimes they hit on a good meme) and they get the points they get naturally.
It’s not a conspiracy, their arguments just tend to be shit.
I read a really egregious childish and angry comment that had nothing to do with linux, and it went on so badly I checked the persons post history up, something I very rarely do, guess who it was…
I also already had that linux hate community blocked, it was so low effort when it wasn’t just outright wrong.
the one and only mod there was practically the only poster.
it was honestly sad to see how much anger they harbored against a platform that literally doesn’t care.
Gotta protect the microsoft stocks.
Funny that there’s a meme against open source on lemmy
For whatever reason, Reddit’s algorithm decided I should start seeing that community, and I’ve always struggled to figure out if it’s just Linux users shitposting, or if there are people out there who really just have huge boners for Microsoft
It started out as ironic shit posting which attracted and built an unironic hate/conspiracy community
It’s happened over and over and over again lol
I’m inclined to think former. Excepting X box players, I’ve never actually met anyone in real life who actually likes Microsoft. Only people who are forced to use it, and don’t feel like migrating to greener pastures.
As a heavy Linux user, the more I use it, the more shit I talk on it.
I also thought it was Linux shitposting, but I’ve had a few comments deleted there. I think they seriously hate Linux for some reason.
Reddit?
Yeah, Reddit’s got /r/linuxsucks
That’s hilarious. Is that one also run by 2 mods that are the only ones that post?
I honestly don’t know, but that would be hilarious
In A UEFI World, “rm -rf /” Can Brick Your System
efivars are made read only by the kernel. That firmware bug (!) was worked around in the kernel years ago.
https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/filesystems/efivarfs.rst
Specifically in 2016: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/ed8b0de5a33d2a2557dce7f9429dca8cb5bc5879
uefi is cringe anyway, reject uefi and return to grub in the system firmware
Firmware is one step before.
BIOS, UEFI, coreboot, or whatever weird code runs on a Raspberry Pi’s GPU to load your system, those are firmwares.
The firmware is what starts your bootloader; grub, BOOTMGR, u-boot, etc
even if my grub is in the system eeprom?
Oh I’ve never heard of such a setup. But that does muddy the lines a bit, I can see the argument for calling it part of firmware then.
yeah it’s goofy, you can embed grub in coreboot cbfs and load straight into it, skipping the bios/uefi stage. it’s a bit difficult to set up (and you need coreboot supported hardware) but when you get it working the boot times become really quick
i just realised though that you can embed Linux into cbfs as well, does that then mean that Linux could be my kernel and firmware at the same time?
Wow very cool. Thanks for that link, I had no idea coreboot was so flexible!
you can embed grub in coreboot cbfs and load straight into it, skipping the bios/uefi stage.
Why would someone do that? *keeps reading*
boot times become really quick
Now I almost want to try it out.
I’m not even all the way switched over and I got my only comment deleted. I apparently broke the rule about only being allowed to hate.
rm -rf /can brick your systemWell good thing there’s basically no legitimate reason to ever even use
rm -rf /anyway so GNU version is perfectly within its rights to refuse to do that by default, am I right? If you know what you’re doing and want to nuke partitions, that’s whatcfdiskandmkfsare for, dammitYeah like so could deleting system32, and there were plenty of memes about that also.
‘Bricked’ in this sense meaning not that you’d just trash your OS and need a reinstall, but that it could actually stop your computer from booting at all. So the system32 analogy doesn’t exactly fit.
It’s because some motherboards implement UEFI in a way that allows important variables to be overwritten by I/O processes. Executing
sudo rm -rf /*would recursively go into the EFI parameters folder where the kernel mounts EFI variables and attempt to delete things. Some motherboards allowed these delete operations to remove things in the motherboard’s firmware it needs to complete POST, thus rendering the motherboard useless.But that’s a problem with the motherboard, not with Linux or Windows. The same damage can be caused by Windows.
rm -rf / won’t even run. Only sudo rm -rf / --no-preserve-root will
Really? Let me tr
yeah but what about
rm -rf ../../../.../var/lib/../../?
I just realized that I’ve already blocked both of the mods at some point in the past. The community looks really dead without their posts.
Madthumbs posts a lot of misinformation.
I looked at some posts of them. They posted a meme about how Linux users don’t shut the fuck up about Linux, while running this community… Lol.
As a Linux user, we might be a little too passionate.
It’s easy to be passionate when you aren’t killing your soul with Windows.
we might be a little too passionate
We have to offset the complacency and downright apathy of Windows users, and the tribal/cult mentality of Apple consumers.
One of the reasons I dont like local moderators being perpetually in charge of some communities. We should have a way to vote out unwanted mods. Or at least have term limits.
On the flip side, if I create a community for some really niche thing that I want to discuss with others, I don’t want an irrational mob of users kicking me out of my own community that I worked to grow.
Mob mentality on social media is also a real problem. People see downvotes and continue to down vote a comment without even reading the whole thing, automatically assuming a user must be an asshole if everyone else downvotes them. Oftentimes, it’s just something people don’t want to hear, but is true.
I don’t want an irrational mob of users kicking me out of my own community that I worked to grow.
Without the “irrational mob of users,” wouldn’t the community just be you, and thus… not a community?
Isn’t that missing the entire point? “It’s my community I built it.”
So the people who exist in the community and partake in it aren’t part of it? Only you are because you spearheaded it? When you die they will shut it down in reverence for what has been lost, like the NBA retires numbers?
Then why even give a shit and start one and put unpaid hours into it? I don’t do any work without an end product to show for it. The users are just casually posting media. The mod has to sit there all day and make sure the community doesn’t turn into a shit show.
I don’t do any work without an end product to show for it.
Then you honestly don’t understand what a community is or why you would want to be involved with it. Sadly this attitude seems to be everywhere these days.
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit.
A community isn’t just for you.
We’re literally in the Linuxmemes community where we’re supposed to be part of an Open Source community so this attitude fucking baffles me.
If I write code that gets overwritten by better code, is it really worth it to bitch about how I have nothing to show for it now? Or should I be happy that someone more competent than me made the community better for everyone, including me?
I get that. But I’m from the old school. In the 90s and early 2000s, if you paid for server space, bandwidth, and set up a forum for multiple users, nobody questioned whether it was yours or not and your ability to do whatever you want with it. Users who didn’t like it moved on or started their own.
You don’t own a community on another instance, it’s not even an ambiguous question, you can make one and be the main or only mod. But you do so with the understanding that the actual instance admins can remove you as a mod at any time.
You can still have that level of ownership with your own Lemmy instance, if you wish
Yup. I realize that. If the admin above me says to go fuck myself, I won’t hesitate to leave for another instance.
deleted by creator
The mayor doesn’t own the town
At least the ones that do are the villains in those stories
If you grow it, that’s great! If a “mob of users” votes you out… that’s the community.
And if it doesn’t grow but a mob of users that you’ve pissed off somewhere else go find your community and vote you out of it?
That’s a good legitimate issue.
There’s some things that could be done, like only allow people that have been part of the community for x amount of time may help. But it will definitely need to be thought about further.
But the current solution is permanent changes by mods of a community you are part of still sucks.
Sucked when it was part of reddit and sucks that it’s still a thing here
That was a potential solution I’d considered as well, but that’s also open to abuse (join a community, set a reminder for x amount of time, do the same thing as you were going to do anyway but with a delay). It would probably stop casual harassment but not do much for the KF-level stuff.
If it was easy to solve someone would have already done it, is my feeling. IMO trust in your instance admin to be fair when the community is at odds with the mods is the only practical way to deal with it without basically reinventing secure voting with verified voters. Which sounds like a hassle, but Godspeed to anyone who wants to give it a go.
I may take a stab at it if it bothers me enough. I dont know rust, but I could possibly see playing around with piefed/bookwyrm or some other like platform to prototype. Its probably one of those issues that comes up so rarely that we dont really need to worry too much about. Until its my instance of course 😜 .
Reminder ban communities would totally be a thing. To that, I have no solution other than they would have to be extra-ordinarily coordinated in their trolling. Which the internet is want to do…
To be fair having benevolent mods/admins/dictators are the best case scenario (and we are honestly in a pretty good spot in the fedi).
I guess I was thinking like the majority would have to vote you out, that kind of thing…
If it doesn’t grow and it’s only you and get kicked out of the server for being a nuisance, nothing is lost. There was no community there to begin with. Actually, there was a greater super set community that rejected the mod. And, if there’s a small community and they kick you out, even if you founded and started the community, then that’s what the community wants.
You are ignoring that harassment is a problem. If any group of people has the power to follow you around and kick you out of any space you create then congrats, you’ve just made Kiwi Farms a new playground.
That’s what admins are for, meta moderation. I’m not proposing said solution or even suggesting it is desirable. Harassment exist in all human spaces and it is up to those in positions of authority and the collective consensus to stop it. But most internet spaces are dictatorial and authoritarian by default. There are plenty of examples on the fediverse alone. If any admin chooses to promote or protect the harassment then you’re out of luck. If someone wants to annoy the Admins, then they have no moral obligation to protect your community. They are the one’s hosting the service and paying for the servers and bandwidth. No mod has any sort of ownership over anything in here.
EDIT: Maybe it is not right, but that’s how it is right now. If a bad politician gets voted out of office, we don’t call it harassment, even if they founded the town, we call it democracy. But Lemmy is not that, so the idea is moot. Admins are all powerful dictators of their instances.
Maybe have it so only users with x amount of time can “vote” to prevent brigading.
Worked for valve and the steam deck as an anti scalper measure.
This entire conversation is solving a problem that’s already been mostly solved.
If you don’t like an existing community, whether because of the mods or whatever, you just create a new one. This was common on Reddit (e.g. GameOfThrones vs FreeFolk vs ASOIAF), and extends further. If you don’t like !Linux@lemmy.world, you can create !Linux@lemmy.ml, @programming.dev, @lemm.ee, or hundreds of others.
The community will respond accordingly. If you run a better ship, people will find it and respond accordingly. The only real hurdle is fighting inertia. The mods of the existing community will probably not take kindly to anyone mentioning any alternatives.
I personally think the solution above will make people more confused. I’m already lost posting to the 5x Linux communities.
Just create a new community
