- cross-posted to:
- greentext@sh.itjust.works
- cross-posted to:
- greentext@sh.itjust.works
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This post makes me want to check out graphene OS when I get my new phone.
You’re gonna love it. I switched about 6 months ago, and it has been nothing but fantastic for me.
Alright fine, you’ve convinced me. I’ll give LineageOS a try.
Install WhatsApp
That’s when you lost me. Either teach your boomer relatives to use Signal, Matrix, or, at the very least, Telegram. Otherwise, let them reach to you via Facebook which you open only in web browser in containerized tab.
Otherwise, let them reach to you via Facebook which you open only in web browser in containerized tab.
I just hire a rando guy from a different country to become me on Facebook. Then I have them email screenshots to a different email. A separate person gets those emails and prints them out. They mail it to a PO box, which gets picked up by a whole different person. The handoff happens at 615pm at the subway on Broadway Ave.
I open the handoff. It’s pictures of my niece celebrating her 6th birthday. I give the guy a thumbs up. He takes that thumbs up, translates it back to paper and reverses the whole process.
It takes 6 weeks for me to respond. But that’s the price of security.
I think you understimate boomer relatives intelligence =) Some simply can’t be taught.
If your friends and family are willing to use those apps over WhatsApp than they love you in a way I don’t really believe is possible.
What’s wrong with WhatsApp? Honest question. They are E2E encrypted just like Signal, right? Better than Telegram, which isn’t in normal chats.
No its not. Only your chat is E2E, other meta data is collected. Who you have saved in your contacts, who you are talking to. Your friends, family co-workers etc. They are all connected to you.
So if only one of your friends were to voice their opinion about a controversial opinion (eg palestine, luigi etc) it will be linked to you.
I thought WhatsApp used the same encryption tech/lib/method as Signal? But again, as you said, still only for chats?
But how would anyone know if we’re talking about Palestine or whatever, if chats are encrypted? Or do you mean talking about Palestine elsewhere where it isn’t encrypted, and then it’s linked to me via WhatsApp connecting us?
Yes, if someone talks about it on fb or insta, it would be immediately linked with their phone number which is also a requirement for Whatsapp.
I was recently watching an interview with some tech workers who were fired for voicing their opinion against israel and one of them was from Meta and she confirmed that meta is closely working with IDF especially sharing WhatsApp meta data.
Weeell then, that’s pretty fucked up. Yeah. Going to continue recommending other alternatives, in that case.
Thanks so much for sharing.
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It’s Facebook
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It didn’t work on PC until very recently
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It’s closed as fuck source. They went as far as sending cease and desists to third party client developers.
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It’s tied down to phone number and shares it with everyone you talk to
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It’s bolted down to gdrive
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Only boomers use it to send trashy GIFs to each other
That’s about all I have, but I’ve never actually used it. Maybe someone else could chime in with more reasons, but for me those are already enough to stay away from it as far as possible.
And then you get to Europe and notice that it’s used by literally everyone… :)
In Russia, too. When I need them I just call them and pretend to be ultra-Z-patriot and do my best to be extra annoying while complaining about them using an illegal app made by a designated extremist organization. Works well enough for them to at least offer another option.
South America, too.
Last point isn’t true unfortunately. My late 20s to mid 30s coworkers use it almost exclusively, as well as most of my customers, and even some businesses (AirBnB, airlines)
It didn’t work on PC until very recently
Wrong. It had an official webapp since forever.
Wrong. The webapp was (still is?) just a glorified remote to a phone app, and would cease to function if you turn off the phone.
… because chats are E2E encrypted. It still has a web app. Why wouldn’t it count?
The same reason as… say, you can’t say Gran Turismo works on PC, even though its compatible with PlayStation’s remote play.
And I don’t buy the E2EE argument. It’s not impossible to have multiple “ends” on each side e2e. Heck, they’ve done it themselves… In 2022. Given their track record, I’d suspect they’re just doing something shady in the app and are being overly protective because of it.
deleted by creator
But we’re not seeing some screen sharing of the android app. We’re seeing a completely separate web app, running in the browser. The only difference is from where it is syncing its messages. It’s a real web app.
And it works this way because chats are only stored on a single “main” device. Then they sync to connected peripheral clients as needed. I think that’s a good thing, to be honest. I don’t see that as a negative thing. It’s not stored on any server (I assume(?), due to the current behavior), which is nice.
I got my family’s chat onto signal as neither I nor my partner have Facebook accounts and they were using messenger
I deleted my old Facebook account to bring that situation about, though
Good for you. I wish my friends cared enough about privacy. I need more tech bro friends I guess.
Mine aren’t techy. I have them a problem and a solution, they accepted it
That’s the thing. My friends don’t care about the problem. It’s not important enough. 😭
Well that sucks
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As someone that lives outside the US, this is not a real friction point.
What do you think all the rest of the Boomers in the world do?
This is great if all you want is a dumb phone. Or you’re perfectly ok without all the things that make your phone smart. Check the balance on your banking app? Nope. Venmo a buddy because your buddy is spotting you? Nope. Chat with your friends or family where they are, not forcing them to use another app they don’t want? Nope.
I think everyone should be picky with what they are comfortable using on their smart phones.
Unless you’re some kind of tin foil hat person or have a specific phone use case or a criminal or terrorist, there isn’t many reasons to root your phone.
There are two kinds of people: criminals and really fucking stoopid, hypocrite, ignorant, criminals… Be the former. Only war is the class war. 🏴🏴🏴✊🏿
>reboot to bootloader -> unlock -> you will use your warranty -> yes
It’s fucking outrageous that companies are allowed to blatantly lie like that (you will not, in fact, lose your warranty – Federal law doesn’t allow it). Every company that displays such a fraudulent message ought to be fined by the FTC, or worse.
ought to be fined by the FTC, or worse
Fines don’t work, just start throwing people in jail already.
By its nature, the only penalties that can be applied to a corporate entity are fines or revoking its charter. The latter is what I had in mind when I wrote “or worse,” although I suppose piercing the corporate veil and going after the company’s executives personally is certainly an option too!
You can pierce the corporate veil. "What lawyer approved it? Who was responsible for putting that message there?”.
The corporation might not be able to be punished, but the actual people who did the thing can be.
The corporate veil for legal action only makes sense for a limited number of things that are problematic for the company but no person could really be expected to have directly made the choice.
Board members should be individually liable
The amount that companies lie about laws is just disgusting.
Oftentimes most of the EULA isn’t even enforceable, but they put it there anyway. It really ought to be illegal to do that.
Good to know… Is this only related to software hacking? Or is the warning sticker on hardware also bullshit?
The warning sticker on hardware is also bullshit.
The TL;DR of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is that if the manufacturer wants to deny your warranty claim, the burden is on them to prove that the owner’s “unreasonable use” (abuse), neglect of required maintenance, or modification of the product was the actual cause of the failure.
For example, a car manufacturer can’t use the fact that you tinted the windows as an excuse to deny your claim for an engine failure, but they could deny it for your failure to perform oil changes.
Unfortunately the TOS you agreed to says a ridiculous “arbitration” will determine who’s right that you abused the equipment - and guess who the arbitrator will decide for.
Add it to the pile of reasons why, for products (as opposed to services), things like EULAs and ToS are unenforceable bunk.
I’ve heard that from a lot of people, but never seen it in action. Someone who sues or somehow gets what they want in spite of arbitration, I’d like to see that.
In EU at least
So in other words: the rule applies to you unless you can afford to pay a bunch of lawyers.
Not in the case of a googlephone.
Hardware sticker is bs
In all of the US?
Yes.
Edit: Side note for consumers: Some US states have something called “implied warranty” laws that extend the warranty period of almost ANY product you buy – even online – usually for up to 4 years, and some states also extend it to used products as well.
Terms & conditions are more a wishlist than anything else ;)
GrapheneOS. Easy, quick, reliable.
Yeah you have to buy a phone by Google but I don’t mind giving them money to reward them for making a decent phone with an easily unlockable bootloader that lets you do what you want with it, even if it means denying them your data. This is extremely atypical from a company like Google so I want to encourage that kind of behavior.
For peeps who want a lower cost option, Motorola allows easy unlocking too. I have a moto g7 power that I got for under $100 running Lineageos with microG. Its a six year old phone but it runs Android 14 just fine. I work in construction and I don’t even use a case because these Motorola phones are durable and inexpensive.
The easy unlocking isn’t the killer feature with regards to bootloader.
Being able to lock the bootloader again after having installed GrapheneOS is though.How do I know which ones do?
At least the ones supported by GrapheneOS, so the Pixels, but I haven’t really looked into it, so there may be more phones that do.
decent phone
-costs $800
-no SD slot
-no headphone jack
-no swappable battery
-camera juts off the back so it doesn’t even sit flatBut hey, you can take your temperature by pointing the camera at your forehead!
- ample space (256 GB for same price as 128 when I bought it)
- I use Bluetooth…
- great battery that lasts 2 full days and more, and can be changed by taking it to a shop when old, np.
- you… need your phone to sit flat? With the standard case it’s pretty dang flat anyway.
My experience with a Pixel 9 Pro, this is.
ample space (256 GB for same price as 128 when I bought it)
My music collection by itself is larger than that. Then on top of it I have game roms, movies, and books.
I use Bluetooth…
Even with my expensive earbuds BT is janky and there’s always a delay with every one I’ve tried.
great battery that lasts 2 full days and more, and can be changed by taking it to a shop when old, np.
You shouldn’t have to take your phone to a shop to repair it. I can change the battery in my phone myself in 30 seconds. No tools or risk of breaking it. There’s a button that pops the back cover off.
you… need your phone to sit flat? With the standard case it’s pretty dang flat anyway.
Yes, if I have to set it down somewhere precarious the less it can move on it’s own the better.
My music collection by itself is larger than that. Then on top of it I have game roms, movies, and books.
Yep, if you treat your phone like a laptop or hard drive, then you definitely need a phone with an SD card. No argument there.
Even with my expensive earbuds BT is janky and there’s always a delay with every one I’ve tried.
I don’t experience “jank” of any kind, but delay, yes indeed. If you are doing time-sensitive audio tasks/gaming, then definitely choose a phone with an audio jack.
You shouldn’t have to take your phone to a shop to repair it. I can change the battery in my phone myself in 30 seconds. No tools or risk of breaking it. There’s a button that pops the back cover off.
It won’t be as easy as that, but with new Pixel phones, there are official instructions on how to do this yourself now (I believe, some partnership with iFixit?). It requires some work, but swapping batteries doesn’t really need to be a 30-second maneuver for me either. It is done so rarely (years), so if it takes me an hour, I’m fine with that.
Yes, if I have to set it down somewhere precarious the less it can move on [its] own the better.
👍 I never take the risk of placing my phone anywhere precarious, but obviously if you are in the demographic where you have to do so (maybe in your line of work, or through your hobbies), you should probably buy a case that alters the shape of your phone significantly anyway. So I don’t see an issue here either. I just have the standard case from Google that fits the Pixel 9 and my phone is basically flat in the back.
Wow 2 full days. My Oukitel does 3 weeks.
Wow, my Nokia 3310 does 30 days. What’s your point? 2 full days is way more than I need it to do. I can charge whenever. 🤷♂️
You present it like it’s a good thing.
Those battery lives are absolutely terrible.
I’ve also heard it’s more like 1 day if you actually use it.
Who doesn’t charge their phone when they sleep at night?
Nah, it’s two days and more with plenty of use.
It all depends on what you need. It’s not at all terrible if you have plenty of opportunity to charge. I charge every day, once a day, and I’m never below like 60%. Sometimes I choose not to charge for a day, and the next evening it’s at like 40% or so.
Very comfortable battery capacity. And the battery life is also great. My last phone, which was a Pixel 6, was also like this. I rarely ever went even close to the bottom half percentages on my phone, with plenty of screen hours each day. And it was like this all up until I switched phones. Barely any degradation noticed.
My Pixel 6 I still keep around with battery saver on, and I charge it once a week.
Maybe you shouldn’t listen to what you hear, sometimes. 👍
What’s your Graphene compatible alternative? I might need a new phone this year.
I don’t have a suggestion unfortunately. I’m still running an LG V20 because I prioritize hardware features and nothing since I started looking to replace that phone has all the options I want.
Less than half of that, if you’re fine with a Pixel 8a, which I would be.
I hate Google as much as the next guy, but if they offer me decent hardware at are reasonable price on which I can run GrapheneOS instead of their spyware, I’m not disinclined.Paid under 400 for a new Pixel 7 two years ago after waiting for the prices to go down and it was about to be discontinued. No idea how much they cost now but you’ll always overpay if you go for the latest and greatest.
Google usually does a good sale of the previous generation once the new ones are ready to come out. I got my pixel 7 $350 USD brand new right before the pixel 8 came out.
Pixel 7a can be bought new for 350€, this is what I would consider a decent phone. Admittedly I don’t need much from my phone other than text, web browsing, taking photos.
You don’t have to purchase the flagship model
eBay, older model, profit
As someone that’s run older pixels on LineageOS for years now (no gapps, just fdroid), what benefits would I be getting from using graphene? I appreciate the hardening they do but my needs are fairly simple.
I was going to try this with my old Pixel 3 until I found out the bootloader was locked. 😡
Locked in a way you can’t unlock with developer settings?
Bootloaders are always locked, pixels generally let you unlock them, unlock is in developer options, Google for how to enable developer options
Correct, the option is simply greyed out. Based on my research, Pixel 3XLs purchased through Verizon are just locked and there is nothing you can do about it.
All that trouble yet you still install whatsapp. Make them text you by sms
Signal
SMS is literally unencrypted and contents of messages stored on your cell provider’s servers. At least WhatsApp is E2E encrypted (even if the metadata isn’t- just use Signal).
At least WhatsApp is E2E encrypted
Unless the source code is available it’s not e2e encrypted.
Maybe I’m missing something but why be concerned about privacy when you’re using whatsapp? It’s owned by meta, they paid almost 20 billion for it
SMS is arguably worse than WhatsApp, at least in terms of overall security
SMS lol
Make them text you by sms
SMS is expensive in Europe. There is a border and international charges every 100 kms.
Ehm, no, it’s capped at 0,06 euro per sms, excluding vat: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/faqs/calling-and-texting-other-eu-countries-questions-answers
That’s quite expensive…
that would require a SIM card
GrapheneOS
GrapheneOS is amazing, but im on my 3rd issue with Pixel hardware. Bad battery, fingerprint scanner, and now sim card tray.
Must be extremely unlucky to have all those three.
I’m on my third Pixel phone without a single issue. 😬
At this point, I find a rom I like then shop for a new phone in the supported section
Bought my Pixel just for GrapheneOS. It is not perfect, but better than all the Samsung etc. shit. And for the next couple years I am not forced to upgrade due to missing security updates, so there’s that.
Same with calyx
Exactly what I did, my Samsung had a tired battery and wanted to just start fresh with a privacy oriented device. I just hate the irony of having to buy a Google phone to get away from Google.
Me too, it’s awesome, I’m not planning on going back. On top I always buy the phone on the secondary market, still sealed, pay cash and everything works out great :D
I ran my secondary phone on Graphene for a while until I decided I needed my bank apps and work apps on my secondary phone or it’s a bad backup, so I restored Google’s OS to it and locked the bootloader again so I could use those apps
It sucks that Samsung can’t be resecured by reinstalling the official image
Did the apps not work on GrapheneOS? My banking stuff works flawlessly for me that way 🤔
Nope, all reported phone insecure
Dang, sorry to hear that. Shitty apps.
Yep. I suspect one of the two big banks added the check and the others followed
Who makes you upgrade your phone? Does anyone have a case where something bad happened because of outdated security patches? I haven’t come across any apps that don’t work because of outdated security patches, but a bunch of apps won’t run if you have root on your phone.
Running insecure software is a bad idea.
I asked about real cases. And if it’s a bad idea, why do banks allow their apps to run on “unprotected” phones?
A lot of hacks are done through browsers. Phones have browsers. When the Chinese make off with Federal Reserve documents because Joe IT logged in with a phone it doesn’t make it into the news.
It’s just the case that patched security flaws are standard practice for a reason. Hey - use http only, make all your passwords Password1, knock yourself out, but don’t expect others to be like “Yeah! Why are we doing all this . . security ???”
It’s a bad thought process to ask for proof that security matters. You do not require proof of that as we know that it does. Many identities are stolen every day.
I think that all this hysteria around security updates may be part of a marketing ploy to increase sales of new phones. Why? Because 3 years ago, no one cared how many updates a particular phone model would receive. I also found information that more than 80% of Android smartphones in 2015 had known unpatched vulnerabilities. However, I don’t know of a single case where my friends’ phones were hacked without their involvement. But I know 1000 cases when my friends clicked on a fake link and entered their passwords/card details. Anyway, I agree that security patches are a necessity, but not a reason to immediately buy a new phone when my old one stops receiving updates.
Do you walk around with your shoes untied because you don’t know anyone who tripped over their laces?
more than 80% of Android smartphones in 2015 had known unpatched vulnerabilities
This is a reason to stay up to date, not evidence that you don’t have to care about it…
immediately buy a new phone when my old one stops receiving updates.
If your phone stops receiving updates, it’s probably over 5 years old and should be replaced by more modern hardware. I’m all for recycling electronics and not being wasteful but it’s really asking for it to base your digital livelihood on the idea that you probably won’t be a victim.
if it’s a bad idea, why do banks allow their apps to run on “unprotected” phones?
My requirements for and definition of “security” differ substantially from my bank’s.
Security patches address vulnerabilities that hackers can exploit to do fun stuff like steal your personal data, install malware, or compromise your financial accounts.
While you may not have personally experienced issues, outdated patches leave your device and data exposed. Cyberattacks are often silent, and the consequences - like identity theft or financial loss - can surface long after the breach. Think fucking without a condom and trusting your pull out game, and years later that ONS calls you and asks for money for the one to x children you fathered that night…
So upgrading isn’t just about apps working; it’s about safeguarding your privacy and security in our connected world.
I am concerned to find myself in a green text unironically
My sexual orientation is now this post.
My banking app won’t work if I’m rooted and before that when I had developer mode on it wouldn’t work. Just gave me a error so I have the login to Firefox each time. I hate apps that block you because they can’t track you anymore
Banks that do this are just ignorant and hypocritical. Those same banks will let you log in from a web browser on the phone that is just as (un)likely to be compromised or from a desktop computer where you also have admin rights.
My bank apps (three different Australian ones) are fine with developer mode, but not root, and not unlocked bootloaders
They block you because the phone can’t “guarantee” it’s not corrupted. Theoretically it’s for your protection as an unlocked bootloader means there’s no local security, you may have used root to install something that breaks their security model
I understand that side loaded apps can also reduce your device integrity score
Change banks bro.
Or you could just not bank or just live in the woods. Some things are not as simple as it seems.
It’s really not that difficult to open a new account and transfer your money
I argue that not rooting your phone and not moving to another bank each time a bank decides to change it’s security protocols is much easier.
A lot of banks don’t care if you root your phone. In this instance it’s actually easier to move banks.
My bank locked me out of my account with their latest authenticator app update, I had to install an old version from backup. Which I only could do because my phone is rooted. I’m switching banks this year, not to one where the app won’t lock me out (apparently that just isn’t a thing, I’d gladly sign some paperwork about liability too, but nope) but one where I can still use a separate, purpose-built authenticator device. Because mine stopped supporting that for no reason.
All of these bullshit security functions in Android and iOS seem to be there to be used by third parties against the device’s owner. If Google and Apple actually cared about privacy and security they wouldn’t let trash apps like WhatsApp steal your entire contact list.
I changed banks partially because of this. Ally bank would fake a “couldn’t connect” error on the first 2 attempts and then succeed on the 3rd attempt. I switched to aspiration bank and their app works perfectly fine.
Don’t forget the part where the preinstalled OS forces you to accept the Google ToS. You just spent a few hundred bucks on a new phone and then it won’t let you use it without also selling your soul.
And that’s after you swim through a hundred forum posts to figure out how the fuck to do it and why the fuck it isn’t working.
helps if you specifically get a phone model that isn’t absolute bullshit, pixels generally don’t actively fight you, which is extremely ironic since they’re google’s flagship.
True enough. Samsung was a minefield of bullshit. If I’d have started with an old Pixel it’d have been much easier.
Any other great phones for custom OSs?
Motorolas are cool for custom roms and Xiaomi are pretty open for a chinese brand.
However don’t go to non snapdragon chips and the latter brand you have to create a Xiaomi account and wait 15 days to unlock the bootloader.
I had to get a new phone recently and since I was on a budget, went with a Motorola.
If got enough money though go for a pixel.
Xiaomi are pretty open for a chinese brand.
Be warned, they just restricted their bootloader unlocking even more. Now you can only unlock 1 device a year. The waiting period annoyed me so much at the time, for my Redmi Note 8 Pro I had to wait 168h, 1 week. I’m not doing that anymore.
Fuck them then, always hated the 15 days. Now by chance even more no way I buying or recommending them again.
Literally me with Calyx OS
Me with most cheap tech I buy. Got a Amazon TV for like $200, and immediately went to blocking it.
This, except install LineageOS and don’t bother with removing google/Samsung stuff. And skip whatsapp as my older contacts email me and younger ones have moved to Signal
