I cannot help but wonder where all this is going. It just doesn’t seem like trends like this, at least if they extrapolate out to larger groups could really lead to healthy outcomes.
I see men bitching about women and how they cannot find a woman they trust/build a long-term relationship with. That they risk nearly all of their income by meeting and marrying the wrong person. Men in total despair with the incel thing, committing murder/suicide in some cases. Or going for the MGTOW thing.
I see women declaring they are done with men, they want autonomy, are fed up with misogyny and patriarchy.
I don’t know if these are just the loudest people in the room, the voices getting boosted the most, or what but it does seem there are just a lot of very unhappy people. It’s like our system has worked to create a world of lonely narcissists, even if they are not clinically narcissists to begin with. Men and women both thinking they deserve a partner that gives them what they demand, while not holding up their side.
( Maybe listening to the audiobook for It Came From Something Awful and all the nihilism involved is not helping my current view on things, either)
The State of the world, in a nutshell. At some point you just go ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and move on. Ait nobody got time for shit.
TBF, their comprehension of the word “celibacy” is only slightly more accurate than any religidiot’s understanding of “abstinence”.
Very reasonable point!
They lead to continued declining birth rate, population decline, and then hopefully eventually a more sustainable world with a lower population.
I don’t know. Some of these people arrive at these positions due to underlying causes that just don’t seem like societal health and happiness in general. Some of them seem to be absolutely miserable. I just cannot help but wonder where all the nihilism and misery leads.
If someone wants to carve out space for themselves and is done with men due to maybe some things in their past - I get it and that’s their prerogative of course. Men making similar decisions, no matter their reasoning, is not necessarily given the same treatment.
Also, I don’t know if those not in relationships are not necessarily procreating. I’m sure there are more than few miserable single moms/single dads that have already had children but are lonely and depressed and have given up on dating. I know people can find someone to be happy with and decide NOT to have children (assuming they are hetero) since I’ve seen it. I don’t think people need to be part of the Quiverful movement to have a healthy marriage, LOL. I do think people don’t need to be having as many kids, and most developed countries seem to follow a trend where the only way they are sustaining their population levels is by immigration…
You should go watch the beginning of “Idiocracy”.
I saw that movie many years ago. I need to watch it again soon. It’s great!
I’m not thrilled about the 4B movement as it’s transphobic, but I support women making decisions for themselves. Ideally this trend in the US will be lgbtq+ aligned.
I would assume lemmy would be supportive of this trend for people in the US in at least broad terms, but I remember the Man v Bear discussion. Bear by the way.
Here’s a challenge for anyone reading this, start by empathizing with these women and what they’ve been going through that would make this a popular trend for them.
I’m not thrilled about the 4B movement as it’s transphobic
Can you explain why this is? I’m only familiar with the basic premise, what’s transphobic about it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4B_movement#Transphobia_and_homophobia_in_the_South_Korean_movement
The website was founded because Megalia had begun prohibiting homophobic and transphobic slurs.
The main site for the original South Korean incarnation of 4B, WOMAD, was created to be able to freely post homophobic and transphobic content.
Yikes. Sounds like TERFs.
The main issue is that 4B in South Korea specifically is a manosphere esq movement for woman. It ends up with the same reactionary bent to it as it is not about equality but separation. It ended up with terf rhetoric as well.
Here’s some articles to read:
https://www.them.us/story/how-4b-actually-leaves-trans-people-behind
https://time.com/7177557/4b-us-women-resisting-patriarchy-essay/
Shepherd, who is trans, notes that the many South Koreans participating in 4B have developed hateful anti-trans, anti-gay views, given the “bioessentialist ideology” that places immense import on child-bearing as a marker of womanhood. “Korean women aren’t transphobic or homophobic, I have friends there and they love me and my transness,” he adds. “I’m saying that the most stalwart members of the 4B movement, those who champion it the most passionately, usually fester in queerphobic forum spaces like Womad. This wasn’t intentional in the creation of the 4B movement, but a separatist movement based in biological essentialism is a movement that can very readily foster that environment.”
Thanks for the explanation. Sounds reminiscent of terfs and feminism, where the movement itself is good, but the extremists co-opting it are the problem? I’d only heard about it in passing, and it seemed quite reasonable to me; I wasn’t aware of that side of it, though.
With 4B in South Korea I think it was bad from the start and not a case of co-opting. With people championing 4B in the US it’s a case of it’s still new, but unfortunately has roots in a bad movement. Hopefully 4B in the US will reject the terf aspect of 4B in South Korea, but that will take work.
I dated heavily during COVID. Weird, I know, but that’s how it went. I had 4 first dates at my place or hers. Weird, but those were the times.
Every woman I met was from a dating site. Not like anyone was meeting in person in 2020. (If those aren’t working for you, it’s you. Yes, it’s a crap shoot. So is any other form of meeting people. You mostly lose, sometimes score. Sorry.)
If you were anti-vax, sporting a Confederate flag, dead animal, hot motorcycle or truck, you likely lost out. Conservatives were strictly screened. I’m relaying these anecdotes from hyper-conservative NW Florida.
“LOL, yeah, I’m kind of a redneck.”
“Uh… Exactly how redneck?”
“I fucking loathe Trump if that’s what you’re asking.”
“Whew. Just had to check.”
That was a girl from Mississippi. (God she was a great woman.)
These guys have to be frustrated. It’s funny on one hand, but they’re lashing out with the other. Just like Christianity diminishing. They’re freaking out.
I like the idea of these “protests” but it kinda just makes it easier for the people they’re trying to burn to take over in a couple generations.
If they’re the only ones having kids doesn’t that mean they win?
Only if we assume the only way to convince people of anything is to brainwash them as children. I would like to give people more credit than that. People can be convinced that they’re wrong, but it takes time. To that end, it’s useful to be vocal sooner rather than later.
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I’m sorry but i have been noticing this trend for many years now. In school, the higher-ups all formed couples. Our class and the youngers didn’t so much form couples, it seems to me. This has been going on for ten years or sth.
