It’s wild that the U.K. doesn’t teach the Odyssey, I thought their whole thing was stealing other peoples’ culture and pretending they owned it now.
Shakespeare invented literature, so clearly there’s no value in teaching anything from before him…
You haven’t experienced Shakespeare unless you read it in the original klingon.
taH pagh taHbe’!
ghu’ qaS wa’DIch’e’, qar’a’!
Fair point.
Well Greece wasn’t ever a British colony, so they didn’t have as many opportunities to steal artifacts and culture as they did with, say, Egypt or India
I’m sure they had ample opportunity to steal Greek artefacts from when Greeks invaded Egypt and India.
I’ve heard of Assassin’s Creed Odyssey, does that count?
That translation has fallen out of favor with contemporary scholars but you get the gist.
Just looked it up, the Odyssey can be taught in the UK but it is rarely chosen because Shakespeare is easier to teach and students who pick Shakespeare get better grades on average.
We don’t like to brag about it but we fought the Brits in the War of 1812, one of the things we took from England was Greek literature. In turn, we Americans lost the definition of jams vs jelly and the superior spelling of “colour”.
I rebel against this fact by being American and using the spelling of “Grey” for the color, autocorrect be damned.
Odd that it’s a choice between them. We learned Shakespeare and Homer where I am in the US.
In the UK secondary students study 3 bits of literature for the exam, modern (20th century+), victorian and classical which is everything before then, I think that’s how it works but that’s just from memory
……………I did the odyssey at various points man I think the guy in the tweet is just Polyphemus or smthn like ‘I don’t know who this nobody guy is, ain’t never heard of no odyssey before bro’
Not in secondary school but I did the Illiad, the Anaed, the Odyssey and Ovids Metamorphoses in 6th form college.
I did study it at school but had to take Classical Civilisation for one of my GCSE options. Our default in English Literature was a Shakespeare work as previously mentioned (Merchant of Venice for me). I also recall studying An Inspector Calls?
When the only Homer they know is Homer Simpson.
Fun fact: the voice actor for Homer Simpson also voiced Homer (the Greek one) in the Disney Hercules animated series.
Fox should sue those lazy Greeks for stealing the name.
Even The Simpsons covered the Odyssey at some point though.
The world doesn’t revolve around America, but you’ll see idiots in Bumbfuck, Romania talking about Soros and wokeism. It’s got to be exhausting.
Soros is a Hungarian Jew who survived the Holocaust and moved to America afterwards btw, so when someone from the Balkans is complaining about him it’s not ignorance, it means something very specific.
Even more of a Nazi dog whistle than when the American right does it? I guess that would make it a Nazi Air Horn
More that it’s not just an idiot complaining about things supposedly happening in a different country.
“The Jews are trying to replace us.” ?
Orban / the party in charge were saying Soros was using his money and power to flood Romania with immigrants.
Still exhausting!
I find that people get more ticked off about the woke in non American countries even if it really doesn’t involve them (it should) but even then they increase their hostility because of it
As an American, I am going to dine on this single example as if it disproves the idea that we are insular and provincial hicks for the next decade.
nah, it just proves that brits are as stupid as you are, which is, tbh, is not a surprise /s
We had Brexit. We can’t say nothing.
As a layman, i believe you have a stronger private school presence, which tend to specialize in order to differentiate. But I might be wrong because I have limited information on the topic of British education.
We have a strong private school presence, yes. Trouble is it leads to privilege and people get on in life not cause they’re clever, but cause they wear the right school tie.
People often choose the easier path, which in this case means choosing status over knowledge.
The /s is unnecessary, I can assure you we are stupid and nobody should be surprised.
it’s /s because someone could’ve implied that i consider americans and brits as the winners in this competition, when in fact, the only competition they’re winning is the one for the most villanous politic actions. USA is a leaéer here at the first glance, but brits literally created USA, so that kinda makes all of the USA villainy into a subset of the british one
edit: i was wrong, the best villains are the french, bc William the Conquerror is the reason brits exist, and therefore also the reason usa does
No country has a monopoly on villainy
i’m not saying they have, i’m entertaining the idea of this trio’s leadership in it in terms of quantity
Certainly stashing it away in the ammo belt.
The problem is, I have this big bag of stones in my glass house, and I want to throw them at the UK for being dumb, but if I do, I also have to admit the US education system is trash.
I’ll throw that stone for you
The British education system is almost as bad as the American education system. The biggest difference between our cultures is that a lot of Americans are willing to point out how incredibly racist our country is
It’s not just slavery minimization. A lot of far right Americans have taken over local school boards to ban books that talk about gay people existing or the fact that sex is something that happens, among other nefarious purposes. And a religious organization in Texas writes pretty much all the textbooks used across the country. It can’t be this bad in the UK can it?
So much broken glass, was it worth it? Now I have to go get the broom.
The amazing part is you somehow broke France and the Netherland’s glass too? Just so much to clean up.
I mean, I have no qualms with recognizing the US education system is garbage… It gives me more fire to try to improve it.
I can do both. I’m ot gonna let some backwater pit like the UK insult my home, especially since the UK is essentially completely dependent on the US at this point.
Both can be true. We can be trash in different ways!
The Illiad and the Odyssey are classics and hardly American culture. They are western culture as a whole. No idea what the drama is about but some dude not knowing what the Odyssey is, is the same as not knowing any other classic. (There are too many to count, but not knowing the most popular ones are is like not knowing the titanic sank.) (Spoilers)
That’s the joke.
To be fair, the only people left on Xitter are idiots
The world is awash in morons and they aren’t localized to that venue, although by way of it’s very structure, it’s a venue that strongly attracts people incapable of holding two thoughts at the same time.
As G Carlin would have said, think how stupid the average person is and realize 50% are stupider than that. This is the world we live in - where the trivial thoughts emerging from society’s dreck take have equal stage and prominence to expertise and wisdom
$10 says the dipshit in question did a frantic google, saw ‘ulysses’ and went james joyce.
Still not American though
Getting closer at least
…the US is not closer to the UK than Ireland though…
You haven’t experienced The Odyssey until you’ve read it in its original Klingon.
Liam’s a tool. UK schools absolutely do teach the Odyssey, and have done so at least as far back as my youth.
most of the time someone says something wasnt taught in school its because that person straight up didnt pay attention in class
I suspect there is significant overlap between the kids who were complaining in math class that what they were learning was useless along with the adults who claim math class didn’t teach them “how to do taxes”. (As if you do anything other than fill out a form, anyways.)
Take the numbers from the numbered boxes, and transpose them into the numbered boxes on the tax form. There, you know how to do taxes, what are we gonna do with the other 13 years of your pre-college education?
But what if it puts me in a higher tax bracket and I get less moneyyyyyy?
lol
Let’s see… what other words are in the Financial Incompetants’ Guide to Life… ok here’s something that sounds cooL WRITE OFFS!!!1
Wait we were supposed to pay attention in school now it makes sense
Guess someone didn’t pay attention when the teacher said “Pay attention please” multiple times.
Mine didn’t. We did Buddy, The Crucible, Animal Farm and Shakespeare from what I remember. First I heard of the Odyssey was when I was 19 and DW did a retelling of it on Arthur. When I saw a copy of the story in the shop I worked at, I got it so I could read the actual story.
Were you not aware of it at any point? I don’t necessarily mean as part of the GCSE curriculum. I’ve been aware of the Odyssey and the Iliad from the “Ancient Greeks” part of our primary school curriculum back in year 4. Of course we weren’t analysing texts, but I’d expect any ten year old to be capable of rattling off some major plot points like blinding Polyphemus, or sailors plugging their ears with wax against the sirens and tying Odysseus to the mast.
Nope, I don’t think I’d ever heard of it prior to the Arthur version.
We did the fall of Icarus in Year 3. My little sister learned Theseus and the Minotaur when she was around the same age, which is how I knew about it. Other than that, I don’t remember studying Ancient Greek anything, not even Heracles. Your school was obviously better than mine.
The Illiad was like the Bible before the Bible.
Only in that it was widely published but there are others too like the Epic of Gilgamesh.
The Illiad was like the ancient Greek Bible because it was used to provide behavioural guidelines and views common to all Greeks. It was a text central to any Greek’s education. How does a leader act? Read the Illiad. How are battles waged? Read the Illiad. What is the relation between humans and gods? Read the Illiad.
Alexander the Great was known to carry a copy of the Illiad with him at all times, and many philosophers routinely used excerpts from it to illustrate their points. And people would reference it like we reference things from the Bible in the west (Judas, turn water into wine, cross to bear, turn the other cheek etc)
Iliad was not a religious text(or even a text for many centuries). It was just a story of a dude trying to get back home.
I know you know this and likely just mistyped, but for clarity, the Iliad is about the war itself. The Odyssey is about the dude trying to get back home.
They weren’t religious texts per se, but they were certainly cultural touchstones which contain important lessons about the human condition, death, love, and what’s truly important in life. They would fill a role similar to histories in the Old Testament, probably, like the book of Ruth.
You are right, i wrote a comment about iliad before and mistyped iliad here too. And you are right, it was a cultural touch stone for ancient Greece.
I have not read the Iliad and I’ve only read a few excerpts from the Odyssey. They available as an audio book anywhere that isn’t Audible?
If you are going to delve into that, you could also try the book “Circe” by Madelleine Miller. Loved it.
I don’t reccomend reading/listening to the original, but reading/listening to one of Steven Fry’s books about them.
I have to admit that I have not read the Illias or the Odyssey in school, either. We were made read books in school intendet to make children shy away from books, so they won’t touch any of them after school ever again.
Luckily I had read loads of good books by that time, so I knew that only a few are as horrible as the ones they made us read in school.
There are basic versions of these stories with big drawings, mostly made for kids. Basically manga. When i was a kid(in Greece), 35 years ago, i had this
https://www.stratikis.gr/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/iliada-nea.jpg
This is Iliad and it was cooler than Odyssey. Badass dudes with almost divine powers fighting other dudes and entire armies on their own, while Gods are taking sides and fucking things up. Isnt that shonen.
Odyssey’s ending was cool though, even if it was a bit sad.
I first read the classic translation by Schwab when I was ten or eleven.
It does feel a lot like that, doesn’t it? Why else would the Bronte sisters be on the curriculum if not to snuff out any interest in literature?
It could be worse. We read Brecht and Kafka. Several works of them. I’ve never encountered worse waste of paper and ink than those idiots. And the rest was not much better.
the illias and the odyssey are ancient greek literature, I don’t think they’re that fun to read.
But, you still should be taught about their existence in history.
They were more fun to read than the sh-t the forced down our throats in school. At least Homer knew how to write a story.
is this why the miniseries is trending on some torrent sites?? haha!
It was also just announced that Christopher Nolan’s next film will be the Odyssey
simpsons did it first
Wasn’t that the Minivan Homer rented? So many cup holders
It could be an amazing movie if they follow the story and make it a multi part series… but also those hollywood assholes cant help but fucking up stories that tell themselves so I expect it to be shit.
Yeah, something like this deserves a several season show with one hour episodes. At least 10 episodes per season.
Remember when some assholes made The Dark Tower (eight novels, 4250 pages) into an hour and a half movie? I sure wish I didn’t. Great casting too. Such a waste.
Probably trending because of the musical tbh , it’s been pretty popular in some circles.
I am tired of western Cinema jerking off to same old stories, which tbh aren’t the pinnacle of literature or storytelling. There are so many cultural epics which are deserving of the big screen, but unfortunately this western culture bias keeps the general audience from being exposed to any of it.
It wouldn’t matter, but the issue is then you have utter fucking illiterates and philistines who believe that only western writers, thinkers or philosophers came up with anything good. New flash, many, many of the western writers took their influence from non-western sources.
I mean
Every culture does that, though? If anything, Americans appreciating the works of the Greeks is as widespread and diverse as a culture can possibly get.
Every couple of years Chinese make a new Sun Wukong move, TV show, or videogame. Tibetan Monks and the Dali Lama are a huge cultural phenomenon all over the world. Wuxia/Xianxia based on old Taoism writings and diagrams are popular in all forms of media. Period Dramas about the old aristocracy in Asia are a huge genre.
Koreans shove Korean dragons and Dokaebi into every medium they can.
Japanese love them some Shinto priestess main characters and Yokai stories.
Arabia’s got thieves guilds, Solomon, and genies and other creatures of fire and wind.
Russia has Baba Yaga and Rasputin depictions.
Germany and western Europe have Fairy Tales, northern Europe is obsessed with Trolls.
India has a strong and proud history of racism, classism, Hinduism, nepotism, sexism, I don’t really remember where I was going with this point, tbh.
Africa… Honestly, Africa might need more time to recover, idk what their cultural epics entail… I do like Shaka Zulu’s vibe, tho.
That’s how culture works. The differences and uniqueness make them worth experiencing, and why people work so hard to preserve them in perpetuity across many generations. Except India. Idk y tf they’re doing that shit.
They could all appreciate some other shit, yeah, but that’s not how culture works.
fucking crazy to denigrate South Asia like that when you made the effort to respect culture for all the other regions you mentioned. I guess all the other countries you mentioned don’t have a history of racism, classism, nepotism, sexism or religion?
No they do but for most of them it’s sort of died off a little bit in the last 200 years.
In India, it doesn’t seem to be declining much…
Looks like it’s being lifted up.
I would actually argue that in many ways it’s increasing, at least in Pakistan where I have family, although these aren’t the only countries with growing fascism and regressive social politics (see lots of Europe and of course the US).
But your comment was about stories of cultural importance, not race or gender or class; I can’t help but feel offended that you would choose to shit on my culture for some reason instead of identifying relevant stories like you did for the other cultures you mentioned in your comment. I agree that those -isms should be criticized, but India definitely caught a stray from your comment.
Yeah, and I did very poorly represent my case. I really didn’t give it much effort or thought, and I apologize for that. It just appears from an outsiders perspective that the Caste System, while not officially in effect, is an integral part of India’s society and it shows in their films and TV. This is also true for the USA whose poor record of Civil Rights is also a continued focus for films and TV.
Every couple of years Chinese make a new Sun Wukong move, TV show, or videogame.
Let’s not forget that in the same way you can trace a huge amount of things you see in Western stories to the Greek epics and Gilgamesh you can trace a huge amount of things you see in anime/manga to the Journey to the West.
This comment serves as a reminder that the normalized hatred directed at India/South Asia on Reddit is alive and well on Lemmy too
A wise man once said “There are two things in the world I can’t stand: people who are intolerant of other people’s cultures… and the Dutch.”
In both his case and mine, the cultural insensitivity was part of the joke.
from one comedian to another, maybe workshop that one. it comes across like you’re a closet racist telling schrodinger’s joke. as a rule of thumb, if you have to tell your audience “don’t get offended it’s just a joke” you went wrong somewhere.
That wasn’t exactly my point. There are examples of Epic tales from other cultures which people often don’t get exposure to because the main focus of western cinema or storytelling is Greek or English.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_folk-epics
Note that epic tales are a distinct type of genre
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_(genre)
Edit why does it make sense for western cinema or storytelling to talk about other tales from other cultures? It’s just the right thing to do if something preceded you, or your work was influenced by it.
None of this is a competition as far as I am concerned, the point is just to find great ideas and stories.
Western media trends towards the myths and legends from western culture? No shit
I mean, what else would you expect? That’s human nature. Kinda a wild thing to be complaining about
But imagine if African or pre-Columbine American mythologies were used to film movies and series.
I get what you’re saying, but I guess I am just idealistic and expect more from people, like being honest about the sources and influences of their works
Edit here’s one of the inspirations for Homers odyssey, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh
Look, I am not saying both of these aren’t great works with their own merits, I am just saying that people aren’t exposed to different things and then live with cultural and racial biases.
How many movies are there about the Odyssey?
Quite a lot, although older. Not including On Brother, Where Art Thou?
"the world doesn’t revolve around your country"country Said the user from UK.
Silly anglophone countries, the world actually revolves around the chad mediterranean
