• brucethemoose@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    2 hours ago

    I get not liking Discovery, but do people really think Lower Decks, SNW, Picard are “Woke?”

    Also, obviously, sci-fi is at its best when tackling politics… Isn’t that kinda the point?

  • kittenzrulz123
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    20
    ·
    15 hours ago

    I havent gotten past the original series yet (I started with that), so far Star Trek seems like the entire point is to get into complex social and political issues that other companies would be too scared to cover.

    • Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      4 hours ago

      Since when does wokism have meaning? Its just something the right uses to describe everything they dont like, like equal rights.

    • orrk@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      5 hours ago

      in a technical sense? yes.

      in a practical sense? it’s superficial, generally without any actual actions to address anything about it. they will praise a company for plopping rainbows on everything ONLY during the exact days of pride month while funding Christian gay conversion camps

  • grue@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    64
    ·
    1 day ago

    Nichelle Nichols was at one point thinking of quitting the show but stayed because MLK Jr. himself told her how important her character was.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      34
      ·
      22 hours ago

      And without Nichelle Nichols on Star Trek, she wouldn’t have been hired by NASA and then we wouldn’t have had Sally Ride, so she is a legitimate space hero.

  • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    47
    ·
    1 day ago

    They didn’t have everything figured out back then. For one, they bullied Spock for what we could only describe today as his neurodiversity.

    • the_crotch@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      29
      ·
      22 hours ago

      The message I got from McCoy was that humans got along because they found new people to be racist against instead of each other

    • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      edit-2
      22 hours ago

      And there will be things that are being created today that’s considered progressive that in 20 years, will be considered as missing the mark.

    • Aa!@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      1 day ago

      You should see the episode when a woman body swapped with Kirk, and how the Enterprise crew suspected something was wrong

      • usernamefactory@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        23 hours ago

        The one I always feel like I need to warn people about is the treatment of Rand in The Enemy Within. Particularly since that happens so early in the series.

    • Taleya@aussie.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      22 hours ago

      McCoy was racist as shit and would not only have been cashiered, he probably would have been charged for hate speech

  • Lad@reddthat.com
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    72
    ·
    1 day ago

    Guaranteed if original Star Trek came out today, it would be decried as “woke” and “DEI” and there would be outrage over it from the usual culture warriors.

    • H1jAcK@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      46
      ·
      1 day ago

      Okay, I’ve finally looked up what DEI means… Diversity, equity, and inclusion are things people are berated for??

      • CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        44
        ·
        1 day ago

        It’s not what DEI means. It’s about what it stands for.

        Conservatives don’t want to be told to treat people with decency. They want to treat however the fuck they want, and then tell you that you aren’t treating them decently.

        It’s about wielding power.

        • Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          10
          ·
          1 day ago

          This is what they mean with those “My rights don’t end where your feelings begin” bumper stickers. The only right they’re losing is the right to being a bigoted asshole.

      • Soup@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        23
        ·
        1 day ago

        DEI is the current iteration of affirmative action, that’s all.

        The problem with DEI is that it’s an imperfect solution that only came about because racists and other bigots couldn’t behave themselves. Forcing the hiring of specific demographics isn’t going to result in the best possible outcomes in every case but those groups also need opportunities even though they’ve been systemically given worse educations and have been generally shat upon. Removing race we’d also probably hire the white man more often but not because they’re inately better, but rather because they are simply more likely to be able to afford to have pretty looking resumés compared to disadvantaged minorities.

        We wouldn’t need DEI in the first fucking place except people like an old boss, who saw an immigrant classmate of mine’s resumé come up and because of his African last name said “no thanks I want to keep jobs in Canada”, need to be forced to do the right thing. They create the problem and throw temper tantrums when we try to fix it. These people are obstacles and it’s getting tiring.

        TL;DR: They feel as if they have a point because DEI can result in a more qualified person being turned away, which I get feels unfair. However, they refuse to acknowledge the fact that said person was only more qualified because we make it so difficult for minorities to fucking do anything. I’m getting so sick of right-wing bullshit.

        • chuymatt@startrek.website
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          4 hours ago

          Also, DEI is trying to diversify the points of view in the workplace. Homogeny of thought is NOT better when it comes to problem solving. Varied voices can create amazing solutions to problems one didn’t know really existed. If allowed, it builds creativity.

      • Stovetop@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        19
        ·
        1 day ago

        YES, it’s insane. It’s like saying “be a decent person” and people going “Fuck you, commie bastards, I do what I want.”

        • FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          10
          ·
          edit-2
          1 day ago

          From 2020 on we’ve seen that telling people “hey wear the most basic of facemasks when you’re out in public because the morgues are running out of space all over” causes them to start screaming at the Walmart greeters and throwing tantrums like children. We are still stupid apes in a lot of ways

      • TheTechnician27@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        ·
        1 day ago

        The outrage the far-right spun over DEI is by trying to portray it as hiring vastly underqualified applicants simply because of their belonging to an underrepresented group (often even being portrayed as vastly underqualified because of their race as white supremacist rhetoric). Of course in reality this wasn’t true and it was just a foghorn for racism/an ethnic slur, but that’s how it started.

      • Psionicsickness@reddthat.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 day ago

        Yeah, I’ve heard it called “Didn’t Earn It” and the idea is that people are given preferential treatment in job or services based on their ethnicity and not their qualification. As with all things the truth is somewhere in the middle.

    • Snot Flickerman
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      1 day ago

      Counterpoint: As long as they consider the women “hot” they will accept them as part of the franchise.

      Nichelle Nichols I think was probably hot enough to not draw their ire.

      Those culture warriors are somehow always okay with women they view as “fuckable.” Women only have value in their eyes if they want to sleep with them by their looks alone.

  • Pickle_Jr@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    28
    ·
    1 day ago

    They were even more upfront about it in TOS for some issues too.

    I remember many instances where they say “We have women in our crew in the future.” It’s not like DISCO flaunted around saying “we don’t hate gay people in this ship.”

    Like I understand that DISCO isn’t everybody’s favorite, and sure it has some issues, but all the flak it got for being “woke” and “preachy” was weird to me.

    Part of Kirk’s whole thing was preachy speeches, and Picard had many moments too.

    • Nightwatch Admin@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      1 day ago

      I quite agree STD wasn’t everyone’s favourite, in any case it wasn’t mine, although I really tried. But whining about it being woke was just stupid.

    • Solumbran@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      1 day ago

      Saying discovery is woke with their crew split in two parts, the queer ones all packed together and then the “normal” ones, seems like a stretch.

      The gay couple basically adopts the non binary one who is in a couple with the trans one, are friends with the gay engineer, but barely even talk to the rest of the crew? Ah and sex scenes between straight people but the most the gay couple gets is sitting next to each other, brushing teeth and a small kiss (not that it’s a bad thing on its own, it forced the writing to actually show a relationship and not just a bunch of sex, which is positive)

      • MajorHavoc@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        19 hours ago

        but the most the gay couple gets is sitting next to each other, brushing teeth and a small kiss

        While you’re absolutely right, I think the record should show that tooth brushing scene is one of the sexiest scenes in television history. Those two have some serious on-screen chemistry.

        • Solumbran@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          18 hours ago

          Once again, the “don’t show too much gay” policy they seem to have forced them to show a relationship through actual intimacy, in contrast to the usual “relationship=sex” that shows usually have (which we can see with most heterosexual relationships in the same show, for example). Even the doctor that is portrayed by an actor that, let’s say, likes to show his body (most of the google results are him half naked) was not sexualized stupidly like they usually would ; a positive thing, except that it’s probably only because they don’t want to “show the gay” (Book for example is always naked and fucking).

          So yeah, taken independently it’s a better relationship image than most relationships in most shows, but in the context it’s pretty horrible.

          • MajorHavoc@programming.dev
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            edit-2
            17 hours ago

            So yeah, taken independently it’s a better relationship image than most relationships in most shows, but in the context it’s pretty horrible.

            Absolutely. I think a lot of the audience realize that if they weren’t a gay couple, we would see them with their shirts off together at every opportunity.

            The silver lining is that the actors are so attractive and doing such a beautiful and convincing job, that the omission makes the show runners look prudish and silly.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        22 hours ago

        That did really bother me, shoehorning all the queer people into their own little box after being far more progressive in previous seasons. Literally anyone else on the crew could have adopted Adira (who I didn’t really care much for as a character anyway, she was basically SNW Uhura but not as good an actor), but they had it be Stamets and Culber. How about making it, say, Detmer?

    • Sanctus@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      24 hours ago

      The only issue disco has ever actually had is their serialized episodes. People hate on the other shit cause they’re bigots. Its still good Trek. The story is just less flexible.

      • FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        14 hours ago

        it’s still good Trek

        Everything with Pike and crew and pretty much everyone except Michael is decent Trek. Deus ex Burnham in every century Starfleet exists in is boring as shit and the nacelles not even being attached to the ship anymore is veering into Star Wars level of nonsensical ship design.

        • Sanctus@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          27 minutes ago

          If floating nacelles is what does it for you but you can accept people being torn apart to the atoms and rebuilt somewhere else Idk what to tell ya bud. The saucers detach and float around, idk how that is sensical as it would create unnecessary weak points in the hull of the ship. The worst parts about discovery were how they were stuck trying to tell grand stories instead of being able to focus on the characters much. They didnt have that tight A plot B plot action that Trek does. But it was far from stinky poo poo terrible like most people say.

      • turmacar@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        12
        ·
        23 hours ago

        I just wish a single ship weren’t saving the Federation/Galaxy/Multiverse every season.

        It also waffles hard between “The important part of the Federation is it’s ideals” and “Section 31 is pretty badass right?”.

        • MajorHavoc@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          17 hours ago

          Section 31 is pretty badass, right?

          I have to say, I hated that. It feels like C suite “promote our upcoming show” meddling, to me.

        • AppleTea@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          14 hours ago

          Have yet to see anything outside of DS9 use Section 31 well. It’s inclusion manages to turn what’s supposed to be a hopeful story of the future into just another police procedural that happens to use Star Trek™ branded props

          • turmacar@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            14 hours ago

            Yeah it’s nuts how it went from “These are the bad guys. This is antithetical to the point of Star Trek and the Federation.” to “Secret agents in space that can just shoot ‘bad’ guys is cool though right?”

      • MajorHavoc@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        edit-2
        19 hours ago

        The only issue disco has ever actually had is their serialized episodes.

        And not spending enough on light bulbs in some episodes. I wondered if my TV was broken, at one point. Lol.

    • marcos@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      1 day ago

      It’s not like DISCO flaunted around saying “we don’t hate gay people in this ship.”

      Well, after DS 9 it would just be repetitive. Also TNG spent a few episodes on this exact point, but it wasn’t a main topic.

      But people tend to focus their complains about things being “preachy” when those things put the preach above the story-telling. DISCO absolutely had this flaw in some point or another. Never for very long, though, so it really wasn’t a main characteristic. Anyway, when a show is simply good, almost nobody gets bothered by the preaching.

    • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      14 hours ago

      I remember this exact conversation in the show, too.

      “It’s like: Who died and put Aristotle in charge?”

      Points to board “Plato.”

  • Snot Flickerman
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    20
    ·
    edit-2
    1 day ago

    Hey now hey now!

    It’s a cashless classless society, it’s about economic class justice, too!

    That part’s just more in the background.

    • FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      1 day ago

      Not for Sisko it isn’t. I wish I’d been born on the other side of the Bell riots and WW3 but at least we have cool digital watches now

      • Snot Flickerman
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun. Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-two million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue green planet whose ape-descended life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea.

        EDIT: I only noticed the username after I posted this, since it’s clear this is what you were making reference to ha

          • OpenStars@piefed.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            19 hours ago

            Have you tried… moving them around?

            What an odd thought though, it’s not like they are the ones unhappy:-).