Here you go, a “real” source. He said there were more bullet ballots than there likely really are, but there’s still a really suspiciously high number of them. How is this not at least worth investigating?
However, Snopes’ research, in which we compared the vote tallies cited by Spoonamore with the latest official election results, found his figures to be incorrect and his assertions to make no mathematical sense.
Sure, investigate. But what though? You need evidence of something before even alleging a crime.
I’d say the number of bullet ballots is evidence that something is almost certainly up that needs investigating. That’s not a normal occurrence
So the assertion is that Republicans inserted a bunch of fake votes but only for president? Why would they not just make it down ballot?
Ostensibly because the presidential election is the one that they really cared about this time around.
Things can be anomalous and abnormal and not be nefarious. Abnormality isn’t evidence of criminality. So, why investigate? Because the number of bullet ballots is slightly higher? A more reasonable explanation is that some people cared more about president than other down ballot elections.
Why do you assume it’s not nefarious? This is literally Trump and the GOP we’re talking about, did him trying to bribe governors for votes make you trust him more or something?
A more reasonable explanation is that some people cared more about president than other down ballot elections.
Hanlon’s Razor: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” There are a lot of stupid people in the United States who would vote for Trump. His campaign was directed at turning out low-propensity, low-information voters, and the type of voter who would cast a bullet ballot are low-propensity, low-information voters.
Why do you assume it’s not nefarious?
The past two elections are regarded as two of the most secure in history. Plus, if there were actual malfeasance, I very much doubt that Trump, knowing his famously insatiable ego, would not allow his popular vote to get below 50%.
In the end, investigate away, but nothing will be uncovered, just like in 2020.
Any anomaly on this scale is worth investigation. Regardless who the current outcome or an overturned outcome favors.
What seems more likely, 1) A vast conspiracy involving the Trump campaign, a group of hackers, Elon Musk and various employees at his super PAC, along with countless other shadowy actors in a cabal that supposedly hacked the vote—an elaborate plot divined by one guy who has gotten nearly every data point verifiably wrong and has provided zero evidence for his related claims, yet somehow “got it right.” Or, 2) A small number of Trump voters simply didn’t care or know much about other offices or candidates and just voted for Trump and left the rest blank?
Right.
It’s genuinely sad to watch people grasp at conspiracy theories like this. Conspiratorial thinking is strongly correlated with feelings of insecurity, low agreeability, narcissism, intolerance of uncertainty, a lack of control, fear, and tendencies toward confirmation bias and proportionality bias. So while it’s not entirely surprising to see some on the left indulging in this kind of thinking—just as Trump supporters did and do—it’s still disappointing to witness.
You didn’t read the article did you? Or even the snopes “correction” of it? Pls do that before discounting it as fake, being wilfully ignorant about this does nobody any good
🙄
The key flaw in this idea that fake bullet ballots put Trump over the top ignores the fact that Republicans won House and Senate seats as well.
If it were bullet ballots, we would have seen split tickets where Trump won but Dems won House and Senate seats at that did NOT happen.
So, no, this is all specious reasoning from the start.
Look at the Abortion bill in Arizona:
https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Proposition_139,_Right_to_Abortion_Initiative_(2024)
Yes - 2,000,287 - 61.61%
No - 1,246,202 - 38.39%3,246,529 votes cast.
Now look at President:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election_in_Arizona
Republican - Donald Trump - 1,770,242 - 52.2%
Democratic - Kamala Harris - 1,582,860 - 46.7%
Green - Jill Stein - 18,319 - 0.5%
Libertarian - Chase Oliver - 17,898 - 0.5%3,389,319 votes cast.
There were 142,790 more votes cast for President than in the abortion race, but Trump beat Harris by 187,382 votes.
Even if all 142K overvotes cast in the Presidential race were fake bullet ballots, Trump STILL would have won by 44,592 votes.
“The election wasn’t stolen! And if it was then it actually didn’t matter and he would’ve won fairly anyway”
What is your point here? Why are you so intent on making sure nobody discusses the evidence that trump stole the election? And why are you so intent on trying (and failing) to debunk it?
Also I 1000000 percent trust an expert on voting machines over a mod of a random lemmy community. You’re gonna need more than your opinion on how one state went to debunk all of those bullet ballots my guy
The point is that the whole notion this guy is putting forward is bullshit and the reason he’s putting it forward is that he’s bad at math.
This.
Posting on a blog doesn’t make someone an expert on voting machines. This guy is no expert, no mathematician, no ‘cybersecurity’ expert. None of that.
I don’t believe there was fraud but I do believe statistical anomalies are worth a second look. Some people won’t ever be convinced but I’m certain the various audits of 2020 that came up empty swayed at least a few people (on that topic, not Trump as a whole).
That doesn’t mean anything, are we really doing this? Can we just accept Americans are idiots
Considering how much trump and his supporters tried to steal the election last time around, this almost certainly means something, and we’d be idiots to ignore it
Damn imagine if true, knowing that your US Government was illegally elected. This really should be investigated for the sake of the entire world.
Well, we saw it in 2000 so that’s nothing new…
according to that planetcritical post I shared, it seems that the public still doesn’t know the actual results of the 2000 election? Doesn’t seem democratic to me.
It doesn’t seem democratic because America is a corporate plutocracy masquerading as a democracy.
Even if every single one of the bullet ballots were invalidated, trump would still win.
Do we really need to chase after ghosts rather than look at the terrible campaign Harris ran? She ran Hillary’s campaign again, took the left for granted and made stupid campaign stops in Kentucky and Texas rather than focusing on more important matters.
Harris lost the election running a center right campaign.
All good points here, but the clarification that Snopes and everyone else is missing and not talking about are kind of important:
- “Bullet Ballots” are single votes for one candidate with nothing else filled out. In order to be valid that means…
- A voters information would have to be put on a form and fed into a tabular, and in the case of Georgia and Arizona (I think?) physically reviewed before fed into said machine because…
- The tabulation machines are set to confirm a specific amount of information, and if that information is wrong, it will error. This is a code on the form that can be machine scanned, so that makes sure it fits a specific location, precinct, county, whathaveyou., BECAUSE…
- if someone were to get a grip of these forms and ballot stuff them, then counts would be meaningless.
So really all that needs to be done is to find a large enough sample of size of consistent voters who had a flipped vote, find their forms, ensure nothing is fucky with the forms, then interview to confirm with the voter. Do that for a few thousand people in Wherever, USA and you’ll have your answer.
It’s not hard, it’s just time consuming and costs money. Voters don’t generally have a way to even check their vote was counted for all the candidates they chose in most states, which I think is fucked up, otherwise this might be a bit easier.
Ballots are anonymous, there isn’t identifying information on the part put in a tabulator.
Yeah, what did you read about my post that said that was the case?
The point is you are wrong. The ballot itself is anonymous.
Again, you’re missing the entire point. It’s a fact, and I can’t be wrong.
Edit: guy, you don’t need to try and revisit all my comments and downvote. You’re just wrong. Deal with it.
find a large enough sample of size of consistent voters who had a flipped vote
Is that possible in AZ? In my state the poll worker records that you appeared to vote, then gives you a generic ballot. The ballot is not tied to you. Your vote is completely secret with no way to trace it.
Some states it is not, as I mentioned.
