Trump winning supports the genocide of every LGBTQ+ person in all of North America, be it directly or indirectly. No one wants what is happening in Gaza. But, I have to say the potential genocide (in the sense of complete erasure of culture as well as open murders with little to no consequences sense) here is even higher.
I have the unfortunate circumstance of being a trans woman in GA. I already have had to completely shut off most contact with people, both work and personal.
I’ve already had rocks thrown at me in an attempt to kill me (this was years ago, even). I already feel like I have to carry a gun. If things go the way they seem, I will even have to order in groceries because it will further empower the people that hate my existence.
The foreign policy is shit, no question. However, I don’t like the possibility of being raped and murdered by some asshole that thinks he understands Co² emissions after watching some video.
I have a lot to say here, especially as a very blue collar machinist. I will refrain, though.
In conclusion: by “avoiding” the genocide in Gaza (which would have in my opinion had a much higher chance of being resolved with Democratic policies), you have also doomed people like me to maybe live in fear for the rest of our lives.
I hate to downvote a Star Trek meme, but that top half is inaccurate. America voted for a genocide of American LGBTQ and Gaza. Both.
We “avoided” precisely fuck-all and everyone who claimed otherwise is a blatant goddamn liar.
You’re not wrong. Yeah, I could have done better, but I’m in a self induced drunken rage.
Understandable. I feel sorry for you guys.
It’s directed at people who absolutely cannot vote for Harris due to her stance on Gaza. Instead, they enabled a war on their LGBTQ neighbors.
But that’s my point, though: they didn’t do that “instead.” They did that in addition to!
Fucking lying, bloodthirsty, fascist clowns, all of them.
Now that the election is over, we can admit it: both sides were bad. Sure Trump is worse, but Harris can be blamed too
There’s plenty of anger and blame for everyone today. Trump and his voters are the most at fault. Harris listened to the lobbyists instead of polls about Palestine. Democrats should never have nominated Biden, and shouldn’t have gaslit everyone about the economy being fine. Americans are far right.
And last of all, I’ve never punched a Nazi or joined a union myself.
And last of all, I’ve never punched a Nazi or joined a union myself.
Not yet.
I hope for the best for your safety, sanity, and well being. Fuck this “interesting times” nonsense.
There’s a reason people’s are cursed “to live in interesting times.”
Me as a child:
Wow! History was horrible at times, but so interesting, too! Just imagine if we could have seen that first hand!
Me now:
No, not like that.
I have to reply here because SDF was down for a while and federation is still catching up. I want yout to know, though, you’ve kept me laughing and that has helped me a lot, so thanks for that.
Thank you for doing the same.
The laughter is the release and therapy we’ll be needing going forward.
Trump winning supports the genocide of every LGBTQ+ person in all of North America, be it directly or indirectly.
Trump winning also supports the genocide in Gaza.
This is very true. I wanted to address the idea that not a single outlet has touched on, though.
Should just be pointing yes at both.
Trump winning supports the genocide of the planet
Trump literally said Israel should finish the job. You’re getting both genocides and probably a few on top!
Ukrainians in Ukraine too. And immigrants in US. Interesting times.
Tankies See this as a bonus.
A genocide of brown people too. And not just the ones in the U.S. illegally. Anyone who is brown and happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time either without ID or with an ID that a cop thinks is fake or stolen is going to be sent to a camp. That’s not even a “potential” thing. Trump has promised to deport millions of people. There is no way they can do that without accidentally deporting plenty of citizens and putting them in concentration camps first while they work out extradition deals.
So this is wild speculation but if you had to gander, how many days do you think we have till Russia v Poland, 180? 360? I think we are going to have to Tony Hawk it and say 720 at most. Normally it takes Russia 8 years to get a new erection but I hear Trump’s got pills in his mouth
In conclusion: by “avoiding” the genocide in Gaza (which would have in my opinion had a much higher chance of being resolved with Democratic policies), you have also doomed people like me to maybe live in fear for the rest of our lives.
Doesn’t matter. They get to LARP with their purity politics. The lives of American minorities don’t matter to them.
I’ve taken to calling them out as exactly what they are: virtue signallers. Like you said, they’re just larping about caring about these people, and boy do they get salty when they have to deny it.
Dumb fucking children
The democrats do not care about American minorities
The number of people who essentially told me that my kid’s life didn’t matter because of Gaza before this election was just disgusting.
And they’re going to stand there as queer people are marched into conversion camps and say it was your fault.
I will put money on the fact no one gets marched into queer camps enmass and forcefully in America
Believe it or not, you being willing to gamble on a child’s life is not an especially good look for you.
I mean, we’ve already had conversion therapy camps that families throw their queer or questioning kids into. Who’s to day that’s not a solution dreamed up here: Project 2025
Forgot this part: LGBTQ+ and what they are already doing now: mediamatters
Odessa, Texas has bounties. Trans person uses the “wrong” bathroom, they can be sued for 10k by any private citizen. Also a misdemeanor crime.
Nex Benedict was jumped and murdered in a high school bathroom in Oklahoma, and the murder was covered up with cooperation between the Owasso PD and the state board of education.
Many states have already invalidated trans licenses. My state has legally defined me back to female. My drivers license says male. That could probably get me sent to jail.
You have the peak masc username.
What about trans people getting marched one by one into prisons with the wrong gender because they got reported for pissing in a public toilet?
Because it’s already the law to do that in some states. I can tell you more about what happens to trans people in prison if you don’t already know, but suffice to say it’s bad.
If this kind of thing can and does happen in the U.S. already, what in the world makes you think that queer youths are not going to be kidnapped and sent to “conversion camps?”
Does it count if they are minors and have their parents supporting it? Or do you only count if the government officially organizes it?
the neat part is now we get both genocides.
He had one genocide, yes. But what about the second (and third) genocide?
And fourth?
Life could be an all you can eat buffet, except every course is genocide.
Oh trump is going to help flatten Gaza with such a raging boner. Everyone that voted “uncommitted” has the blood on their hands they blamed others. Fucking repugnant
Everyone that voted “uncommitted” has the blood on their hands
Once again, the peaceful protesters are responsible for the state violence inflicted upon them. Its just like when the BLM protesters cost Hillary the election. Or when the LGBTQ community and the anti-war movement handed Bush a second term.
Just stop resisting! Stop resisting! Stop resisting or you will be hurt much worse! And then you will have only yourself to blame!
You voted for trump. You’ll get what you deserve.
Theres a little thing called picking your battles
Uncommitted to democracy, uncommitted to secular society, uncommitted to global stability, must I go on.
Honestly I’m hoping he gets stuck between a rock and a hard place. IF he lets Israel do so he cannot help Putin defend Iran, his missile and Drone supplier. Millions will suffer, no doubt. It’s horrifying, but Trump can’t let Israel kill wildly (hard to say they haven’t been) until he gets the majority of the U.S. to side against Russias invasion of Ukraine. Which means also turning against trade agreements in Europe. He will have to kill so much to gain little. (A few beach condos in the West Bank) Is what all of that started about. His son did the appraisals if I remember correctly.
Meaning. Would it not be easier to collect $2 billion in kick backs from Putin and ditch Israel. My thought is that is what he will choose. He will say the ammo caches we have their are dated, and we have no interest supporting foreign wars. So cut funding and ammunitions to Ukraine/Israel. His base will act like it is for a good reason… And he gets his wish. Russia will make an agreement with Iran which will make an agreement with the entire area… That a few beach properties are set aside for the Trump family businesses
After all, the cache loses are U.S. tax dollars, not his
I told this to one of the tankies over in leftymemes, got called a genocide apologist and banned. Funny thing is, one of their mods is trans. Not American, though, so it doesn’t matter to her I guess. And let me tell you, that mod in particular, she was working hard to convince people not to vote for Harris. Didn’t have much to say about Trump, though… pretty interesting.
Asking a tankie what the best path forward is for the US is like a black man asking a Klansman for career advice. They want to see us burn, not be better.
Asking a capitalist what the best path forward is for the US is like a black man asking a Klansman for career advice. They want to see us destitute, not be better.
I really don’t get that.
US is one of the world’s hegemons. They have disproportionate control overthe global energy markets, financial sector, and so much more.
Pretty much wherever you are you will be impacted by US politics.
And it sucks because the US is increasingly becoming a shit hole country.
At least they will get what they deserve. To bad about everyone else.
Bottom panel should be “Genocide in Gaza AND…”
Its always amazing to me.the lengths someone will go to to avoid blaming their party or candidate for a loss. The blame is not even directed to the millions of people who actively voted for the fascist, but to the political minority with the least impact on the result.
Lets face facts. The DNCs strategy to move to the right and court the mythical moderate Republican failed again. Their strategy to fund extremist Republican candidates in local races was another bet on the goodwill of the GOP voters and look they lost the Senate. They failed you.
They failed the country. They had a huge hand in creating the trump mess for their own assumed gain and yet, none of the average libs will acknowledge it. They took the votes of independents and leftists for granted and decided Liz Cheney and AIPAC would bring them victory and they failed again. Face it.
Yeah where’s all the fucking dipshits that were on here before yelling nonstop about Kamala not getting their vote because of the genocide in Gaza, hmm? I guess Russia doesn’t need to employ them anymore.
More like canceled their ChatGPT subscription
They’re still here, for some reason. Maybe everyone thought the election would take a few days to call and so they paid for a few more days of disinformation?
They’re now advocating for violence. A civil war would be a great way to destabilize the US.
“no one wants what is happening in gaza, but the potential genocide in north America is even higher”
Have you tried opening a newspaper recently? What is happening in Palestine is worse than anything else happening in the world; to say that your potential event could be worse than that is a tremendous display of ignorance and insensitivity.
Trump will go along with whatever Israel wants to do. If Hamas was in power, I can all but guarantee they would be doing the same shit, if not worse.
ETA: I’m not advocating for what is going. I’m just rather pissed that so many people keep doing the counterproductive thing of using this as a reason to vote trump or sit this out. Considering that Trump is worse in this regard and with global warming, humanities only chance is to ramp up efforts like the US is a lost cause, because for the next 2 years at least, we are.
Where have you seen that I’m advocating for Trump? I’m not even American! Every time I see someone criticizing the role of the US government in the Palestinian massacre, somebody come and says “yes but Trump”. I know trump is worse, can I still criticize the current US government or do I have to wait for the campaign to be over?
You have every right to criticize. I really and truly do empathize with what you are saying, believe it or not. You never advocated for Trump. Things are just very tense here in the US. That isn’t an excuse, but maybe an explanation for our overall behavior.
I think this might be one of the effects of dual party system, there is a binary vision to most debates that is more nuanced in multi party countries. I might be wrong though, interested in hearing other’s ideas about it
I, obviously, disagree here. It’s all horrible. However, I have every incentive to vote for my own well being. My point in that statement wasn’t necessarily that it would be worse (I probably should have phrased things better, but I’m no writer), but I do think it could potentially be more impactful for the “West” in the sense that the US could, potentially, devolve into a state similar to Russia (or a large number of nation states) where anyone who is not straight or cisgendered will be persecuted to the point of erasure. And in my personal case, though I know this is anecdotal, potential murder.
You say it’s all horrible like it’s a comparable horror. It’s not. Leaving aside the fact that your described event is hypothetical (and I hope it will stay so, don’t get le wrong I fully support LGBTQ+ rights), comparing murder to planned ethnic cleansing and thousands of civilians lives lost is a negation of the horror Palestinian endure on a daily basis.
Ethnic cleansing, orientation or gender cleansing, I see them as the same. thing. Ever have someone physically assault you for pissing? The drive for murder and erasure is literally on the same scale. The difference has been the backing of a state. Now, that may very well change. We will now have idiots with guns threatening us to to “be normal.” And no, it’s not a comparable horror… yet. I fear for my life constantly.
And, again, I’d like to posit the other meaning of genocide - cultural erasure. This, I think, is very likely.
Sorry, but as a queer Arab I think you’re completely off the mark here. Gaza is a literal concentration camp. People are burning alive every day. What LGBT+ people in the USA could go through under Trump is very bad, but to think it comparable is delusional.
The point is, now we get both.
Well, it’t won’t be like Palestine, but KKK style lynchings, taking away the non-profit status of pro-LGBTQ+ organizations (if not jailing every member of them for “pornographic speech”), forced detrasitions, forced conversion therapies, and jail for existing in public.
All of these so called anti fascists sure do seem excited about a fascist being elected
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I feel for your very unfortunate situation, but maybe you should’ve demanded more from your party, instead of putting the blame on people who draw the line at genocide. If the choice is between the number of genocides, maybe we should take a step back and reflect a little because this doesn’t stop anywhere. Next time there will be two, three…
Republicans can go as fascist as they want, but if the Democrats are drugged in this race to the right, they will lose. They endorsed the wall, they did nothing about the immigrants and they 100% backed a genocide no questions asked, ever, what difference is an immigrant or Arab supposed to see from this?
No matter how much you accuse the people who didn’t vote, the truth of the matter is that nothing will change if you don’t demand from your party to stand for some values. For now, they follow Trump moving to the right.
Our party? Democrats are no more my party than Republicans are. They are objectively the better option for someone like me given the alternative, but in no way do they represent me. They are just another element of the capitalist corporate hegemony, and I’m just a consumer to them.
I don’t understand why only one group of people can be blamed.
Trump voters, non voters, the democratic party, etc all have varying amounts of blood on their hands. Be it the blood of Gazaouites, queer folks, immigrants, or simply women.
Because the democrats didn’t stand by any values that supposedly differentiated them from the republicans like I explained, but you don’t seem to really care. You can put it on non-voters or third party voters all you want, the truth is that Netanyahu got anything he ever wanted and asked for by the US under Biden and Harris and not acknowledging this is part of the problem. Immigrants got the same treatment under them as well, which I also mention and you don’t really care.
That’s the issue with not having any red line, you will always play by the rules of the far right. And that will make you indistinguishable from them which will alienate the people who want change. They don’t see an alternative to a very very dark situation. In good faith, you would very much understand why endorsing the wall, genocide Gaza and standing proudly by it, supporting Israel unwaveringly, not promoting any substantial progressive economic or ecological policies and in general why having an extreme neoliberal agenda would not compel people to vote for you.
It’s not on the disappointed voters that you people can’t understand what having a red line means. Consequentialism simply does not hold up when the difference are so miniscule and the evil is so big.
I’m really tired of going over this again and again, if you could feel a fraction of the pain the democrats and their oligarchs brought by committing the worst crime against humanity of the 21st century and how the millions of pleas for embargo went ignored this past year and a month, you wouldn’t be asking this.
I think there’s a slight misunderstanding. And a good part of it is on me.
First and foremost: democrats sucks. They suck so hard it’s honestly mind boggling that the republicans manage to beat them to the punch.
My point is that in that instance of first past the post election they’re the slightly less worst choice on a lot of issues, including Palestine (and yeah that previous slightly is doing a lot pf legwork). This is why one should vote for them. This is also why they need to be shamed and harassed into better stances.
I know it’s a heart wrenching choice. I should have worded my previous comment differently in order to establish that non voters where on the very bottom rung of the blame ladder.
But the US is a reprensentative Republic with a fucked up version of first past the post winner takes all voting (which is already fucked up in its own right). There are absolutely no good choices in that election. Only slightly less bad ones and whatever one can get away with while still retaining a modicum of sleep.
There should be riots about the Democrats, riots about the republicans, riots about how fragile the entire American political system is, riots about the election system where your vote only matters in a few select states, and some more riots for an unending list of reasons.
I do care, even if I’m not a US citizen and live in one of the regions where I’m the most sheltered against American tomfoolery (western Europe).
I just think that voting democrats in this election was the least uneffective way to do harm reduction.
I’m not disagreeing on the facts. The democrats truly are the lesser evil and they truly are very evil. They did awful and Trump will do worse. There should be protests and everything.
All that is good. I don’t know about you, you seem more open minded than the average user here, but most democrat supporters cannot understand the idea that someone can decide whether to vote and what to vote for with a different logic/philosophy - not with different facts.
Most of the time we judge things with a consequentialist mindset, it’s the default for most people. It goes like this: what action out of all the possibilities produces the best results, positive or negative, it doesn’t matter as long as one is above the other? I choose that. That’s very standard but it has problems and there are a lot of philosophers who have criticised consequentialism/utilitarianism. One criticism is what time in the future are you assessing the consequences? It can be a year, it can be ten years. If Harris had won, would the LGBTQ rights be protected more? Yes, but would the democrats become more unhinged in Gaza, as they basically got away with a genocide? Also yes. Would that further move them to the right(because that’s what the oligarchs who fund them want and since they met no resistance), adopting extreme far right policies, like endorsing the wall? So would they in the long term turn out worse and worse? Yes. Someone can argue therefore, that a crushing defeat can maybe help them move to the left even a little bit finally, which in the long term can be more beneficial.
Another criticism is that for a lot of people like I said there is a red line. That’s following the deontological framework, where basically the means justify the end, the opposite of consequentialism where the end justifies the means. I’m not saying one framework is better than the other, I believe both have their merits and can be applied in different contexts. In this particular example where the democrats have done so absolutely horrific on all fronts but especially on Palestine, voting for them cannot be justified. They have crossed too many lines to be justified by the end. That end being miniscule differences, basically non existent on anything other than a handful of social issues.
It’s ok if you disagree, I’m not going to tell you what to believe, the issue is not recognising the different perspective, which is just not going to lead you anywhere. I’m going to keep explaining this and you(or anyone in your place) will keep repeating the same consequentialist argument. It will not get you anywhere cause it’s not a matter of misunderstanding or not realising the consequences, it’s a matter of framework and a matter of ideology at the end of the day.
So, your argumentation is sound. The problem is that demonology is not a tennable position. Not quite sure where you got the idea that consequentialism is the default either, but thats an aside
Truth is, no, I don’t care. Liberals and progressives arent a viable coalition, the Democratic party is cooked
I wasn’t the first to ask the question, but I haven’t heard an answer: If the genocide of Palestine is an acceptable price to pay to get a Democrat elected, then why wouldn’t trans genocide also be an acceptable price because of the threat to cis women? The utilitarian ethical calculation still works just fine.
You could ask that question, but the answer doesnt matter politically. Women, cis and trans, are on the same side in that if the genocide of the latter is plausible, the former is already pretty hard done by. A worsening of one position necessarily accompanies the other. Gaza does not work like this. Republicans are obviously the worse choice there too. You can argue about red lines and such, but thats not how realpolitik works. We get two options, nothing more or less, zero alternatives. The consensus necessary to change this is not possible in the current political climate. Denying support to the lesser evil on the basis of said evil when their opponent will do that same evil but more is not logical.
Tangentially relatee, there are those who sacrifice trans women for the sake of cis women. We call them terfs, and they’ve largely backed rightwing parties
I feel like the very existence of TERFs shows daylight between cis and trans women. In any case, even if it may not matter politically at the moment, I’m still interested in the answer to the question.
I think you are asking the wrong person, I’m the one saying the Palestinian genocide crosses the line. Although I don’t 100% understand the logic behind this. What’s the threat to cis women?
Although I’m suspecting the answer someone would give you is that it’s because the trans genocide will happen to “us the US citizens” not some Arabs at the other side of the world we don’t really care that much about.
Oh yes, sorry, I try to use Lemmy as a place for discussion, not an arena for rhetorical warfare. I had enough of that at the red site. So, I’m not challenging you, but building on your point.
Thanks for the Devil’s Advocate explanation. That’s what I suspect the answer is, too.
