Not just for series, this is the same with games.
“The first 50 hours of Final Fantasy 14 suck, but the expansions afterwards are worth it!”
“The game starts at max level!”
I can’t stand it. And it’s not like the game magically gets much better, it just feels pretty okay for someone who just wasted months of their time on the bad parts. Of course you’ll enjoy mediocre parts later on after suffering through that crap.
A game has to start being fun ten minutes after the tutorial tops. Why play it otherwise?
For PvP centric games they absolutely get better at max level. You finally are at parity for numbers, and so skill plays a larger role.
I find PvP games with unlockables and grindables to be the opposite of a good time.
Same. Even on the rare occasion where I’ll do a free to play MMORPG, I avoid PVP and otherwise dealing with other players as much as I can and of course eventually get sick of the grind and return to single player games
This is exactly why I hate PvP games with unlockables. Just put everyone on a level playing field from the start, à la CSGO etc.
“The game starts at max level!”
Diablo 4 fans be like
Nah, Diablo 4 is much more fun when leveling from 1 to 70 or so. 70 - 100 is just doing the same things over and over with barely any rewards. It’s the other way around there, leveling is fun, endgame is dogshit.
Usually “game starts at max level” is used for MMOs like WoW. Where all the leveling is seen as annoying bullshit fetch quests and at max level you do dungeons and raids.
That would not.apply at all to EvE Online. Levels? What levels? Game content? Only if you make it happen. Lol.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the game, but it certainly isn’t for everyone
This is not true for D4 unless you’re trying to max level as fast as you can. I took my time and did most of the side quests, and I intend to go back and finish them all. The quests are interesting and engaging and voice acted all the way through.
D4 is quite a good leveling experience if you don’t play it zoom-zoom.
Ironically what got me into Diablo was my then-girlfriend now-spouse insisting that I go back to Diablo 1 with her and experience it for the story, and damn if that didn’t hook me quick. Endgame D2 and D3 are great and all, but what makes something great even greater is having any sort of emotional connection to the story the game takes place in.
Also hot damn the ambiance of D1 is just something else.
2 and especially 3 too, though
Conversely, too many good games get bad reviews because of lacking endgame. So go play the next thing in your overflowing backlog. Some games do what they came for, and that’s fine.
It’s like giving a bad movie review because the concession stand was closed when you left the cinema.
My brother is 100% this…”ohhh you just have to get through the fetchquests of ARR and then the story is SOO good”
Ugh, ARR is horrible for that. It really is a good game after all that bullshit, but it doesn’t excuse the bullshit existing in the first place. Plus it’s so weird for Final Fantasy, a story driven RPG, to have so many low quality quests in the first place (both story and side quests). I can’t fault anyone not wanting to deal with that.
Best thing it has going for it is that the dungeons are really fun even when the story quests suck. But it’s been years since I’ve played and my knowledge may be stale. Someday I’ll go back, but no way I’ll start with a new character lol.
Also the tutorial shouldn’t take an hour.
Ehhh, Final Fantasy I’ll give a pass to on that sort of thing. They were telling good enough stories at least up till FF 10 that a two hour tutorial was ok, because the rest of the game was going to take you a minimum of 60 hours to complete. There are a few other RPGs that would get a similar pass. Baldur’s Gate would get the pass, but unless they changed something in 3 I expect less than a half hour tutorial in that game as well
I’ve said that about FFXIV lol
It gets so much better though when Heavensward enters, it’s insanely good
The story or the gameplay? Because all I wanted to do was play a fun MMO, get items and do dungeons with other people. Instead I did quests like hit 3 rocks with your basic ability. Great! Hit 3 more rocks with the same ability. Done? Now run between 4 NPCs and talk with each of them. Great, now kill 8 enemies over there. Run back, talk with 2 more NPCs. Run through the city and interact with 8 lamp posts, the interaction takes several seconds each, because why not? …
I really tried to power through this absolute bullshit, but after a few hours I simply gave up. It only got worse, not better.
As you say Heavensward, I still hear that there is a ton of dumb quests then. Like the story is right at a critical point and they send you off on hours of fetch quests before you can continue?
It’s true that it’s very grindy with lots of fetch quests, but the actual story gets really good from then and on
I honestly don’t care about the story that much in games. A good story is nice, if the gameplay is there. If the only thing that is actually good about the game is the story… I’ll just read a book instead.
The grind is kind of an MMO thing, it’s not for everyone. Personally I enjoyed the gameplay while chilling with a friend and listening to music on the background
That’s why I don’t play japanese rpgs despite liking them. You have to “play” for 10 to 15 hours before the game actually starts. And during this time it’s a whole lot of cinematic and dialogs with minimal gameplay. Sometimes it gets ridiculous. I can’t remember which game, but after few minutes of dialog you’d be walking for less than a minute to then have dialog again… I want to play and have fun damn it.
I can’t remember which game, but after few minutes of dialog you’d be walking for less than a minute to then have dialog again… I want to play and have fun damn it.
Sounds suspiciously like Final Fantasy 13. I swear that game was basically an 8 hour FMV that was broken up every 5 minutes for the first 8 hours of the game.
Yeah no I can’t do games like that. I don’t have as much time for ma vidja games as I used to or as much as I would like these days I can’t afford to wait 50 hours for enjoyment to start. If it takes that dn long for a game to be fun its just bad game design
Not to be that guy, but once you get past the first 35 levels of story in FFXIV (which is a lot faster than 50 hours) it really picks up quick. Like a lot.
The story or the gameplay? Because all I wanted to do was play a fun MMO, get items and do dungeons with other people. Instead I did quests like hit 3 rocks with your basic ability. Great! Hit 3 more rocks with the same ability. Done? Now run between 4 NPCs and talk with each of them. Great, now kill 8 enemies over there. Run back, talk with 2 more NPCs. Run through the city and interact with 8 lamp posts, the interaction takes several seconds each, because why not? …
I really tried to power through this absolute bullshit, but after a few hours I simply gave up. It only got worse, not better.
Also, the episodes are an hour long each…
And each season is 20 episodes
It’s like they suffer from “sunk cost fallacy” but with entertainment.
‘I’ve already watched 30 episodes of this show… But I can’t stop now. Not until it gets good!’
I recently watched a video called Why Do We Play Games We Hate? I feel it applies to other media as well.
The thing that stuck out to me was that some people don’t feel ready to decide whether or not they like something until they’ve totally completed the experience. They feel it isn’t fair to judge the partial product, so they’ll stick it out through the end, even if it’s terrible, just so they say without a doubt they did not like it.
I can understand the mentality, but sometimes you have to just jump ship.
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I kinda got sad when he got back to the main topic about games and stopped talking about the history of the concord.
He taught me a lesson about aviation engineering history I didn’t expect to learn, I’ll give him that.
I have a friend who grimly stuck it out through Wheel of Time long after he stopped enjoying it out of completionism.
Screw that.
For books, I get it. I feel a deep compulsion to finish any book I start, whether I like it or not.
For television shows? Nah, I’ll stop right away if I get bored.
The books or the godawful Amazon series?
Books.
Yeah, I don’t blame him. If the slog were one or two books, that would be forgivable, but four and the majority of Knife of Dreams is excessive.
I’m pretty sure I would never have fully read the series if I didn’t start it as a teen with too much time to spare
One Piece fans lmao.
This week’s episode is actually really good. You just have to watch the other 1071 episodes first and I swear you’ll like it.
I think that’s just called Stockholm Syndrome.
Just spend a month’s free time doing nothing but reading manga and you’ll be fine. Wait shit that was how long it took 8 years ago when I was last caught up
I can’t deny this lol. Sometimes you like it from the start, but the start is very corny since it was made in the 90s, so it doesn’t grab everyone right away, but it matures really well over time and becomes more timeless. But even then I have to admit it can be an acquired taste with its cartoony style and wacky characters/world.
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You’re right and wrong, but the way you said it makes me think no one likes talking to you or much less holding a conversation with you. Which is why that’s all I’ll say.
I’m not really sure why it’s such a bad thing. The fact that they’re there and alive doesn’t necessarily detract from the story. They interact with so many other characters that get a lot of screen time compared to the main crew, and those characters eventually leave or die. And it’s fine. I’m not looking for the crew members to die and be replaced.
Tf are you doing trying to critique a show you’ve never watched or read based on random video game versions of them, neither of which are accurately placed in any part of the canon timeline and are just for fun. That’s the stupidest shit I’ve ever heard. That’s like judging a series based on nothing but the McDonald’s happy meal toys based on them. There’s so much wrong with what you said I’m not even gonna bother trying to address it seriously.
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I think what you’re smelling is your own farts my dude. Nobody’s forcing you to watch it, in fact I’m glad you won’t.
It’s a typical shounen with all it’s troupes and cringy narrative. The start shouldn’t shock people. It actually manages to grab people quickly enough compared to other shounens at their beginning.
Over the years the story matures and develops accompanying their audience. The beginning was for teens and now it still has the same fans and followers that are in their thirties.
It’s hard for shows that are so long lived to maintain their engagement.
My GF loves One Piece, she started me at just one episode quite a ways in - the one with Bink’s Sake - basically just to say “hey look, this story is actually going somewhere”. Then we started at like episode 60 or so and kept watching from there - it’s definitely a lot rougher, but I’m hooked enough now to watch it with her!
It’s unfortunate that it is true. No going around it - the first 25 or so episodes are cartoonish and the old drawing style kept a lot of people away. I tried to convince people to stick with it but most of my friends left it around episode 2 or 3.
It’s also evident that it is perceived as a dumb teens series since producers brought it to TV to a channel named 4Kids. And then they quickly realized by the second batch of episodes that kids definitely shouldn’t watch that.
That’s why I’m hoping the live action becomes a success. One piece has a lot of amazing things, but the anime adaptation is just shat out of someone’s ass every week. I can’t recommend that to anyone.
If Netflix is successful in recreating the one piece experience - and so far it looks like they are - I’ll finally have something to show people why I like this story so much.
I enjoyed even the first season of It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia, but it really starts to pick up in Season 2 when they introduce Danny DeVito’s character. Well, it really starts to pick up when his character evolves into trash goblin mode in like Season 3/4. Well okay actually seasons 5/6/7 are where it gets REALLY good!
Me with Bojack. I straight up tell most folks to skip the first 5 episodes and start with 1-6. The jump in quality the show does when it gets to “The Telescope” is staggering, it doesn’t feel like the same show.
I mention Bojack to pretty much everyone I care about. I am just worried there’s someone out there that could love the show as much as me and just doesn’t get the chance to.
let me start on episode 6 and get back to you.
The first few episodes of Bojack were super rough. I think I had a friend that loved the first few episodes and fell off as the show went on.
Guess I need to give it another shot lol
Well, yeah, I get that, even if I don’t find those episodes bad myself, but I do think episode two, Bojack Hates the Troops, is a really good satirical episode that shouldn’t be missed.
Ok, yeah, my partner loves the Mc Neal Seal puns, and even when we were watching it he was like “season one is supposed to be the bad one? Jesus the show is good then”
I was told to stick it out one more season for each season of breaking bad. Watched the whole show and it never got better. I hated it.
Seriously? Breaking Bad was awesome all things considered. But if you are not hooked by season 1 you won’t like it, period.
The middle part of the series was a drag, too many filler episodes. Strong start, strong end, but if you don’t like the start don’t even bother.
Better Call Saul was all killer no filler baby.
Yes, I should have stopped in the first season
I consider Breaking Bad to be one of the most consistent shows. If you don’t enjoy the first few episodes, you’re unlikely to enjoy the rest of the show. I’m not sure what your friends were on about.
Literally the one show that got me hooked in the first episode.
how?
Yes, this! Came to see someone comment this.
This is season 1 of Parks and Recreation. It didn’t really start to get it’s footing until season 2. I’m glad I stuck with it, so many great characters!
Yeah, S1 was trying to be the office too much. The camera shots and everyone’s delivery was just off a bit.
And I don’t think it really landed until season 3 with the cast change.
I like that after Mark leaves, he’s never even mentioned in passing again.
Yeah, on rewatch I generally start at season 2. Same with The Office (US). Both shows are phenomenal, but they take a while to find their footing.
However, I’d certainly argue that even on first viewing, the first seasons can be skipped. You might miss a bit of backstory, but you’d be able to understand most things perfectly fine.
felt the same with What we do in the Shadows
I think a lot of those kind of shows just need to get to know the characters better and see what works and what doesn’t in the first season and then improve on that when viewers also have a better understanding of that
Your mom is a great character.
Even then, you could skip half or more of season 1. I can’t remember which to skip, but there’s advice online somewhere I’m sure.
so that’s why streaming shows suck, they rarely make it that far.
After GoT and all the cancelled shows on Netflix, Prime, etc. I refuse to get into a show until it has a few seasons under it’s belt. Nothing like getting invested in a show only for them to cancel it.
I avoid shows until they are finished completely
I avoid shows until all the actors playing the main characters are dead. Got into Golden Girls about a year and a half ago, and I figure I’ll be watching Friends from a retirement home.
Unless…
Are you offering your services as an assassin? Because a couple of them DO seem like they might have very annoying personalities…
I’m the same way but it’s quite the catch 22 considering if people don’t want the first season or two it’s unlikely they’ll make another
Just has to grow its beard.
And Rikers Beard is glorious.
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Shit, if a show doesn’t interest me after 30 minutes I’m done with it. If the story only gets interesting after the forced exposition dump part of the script, then the script needed more work before they filmed it. In my opinion anyway.
Every Star Trek ds9 and tng person ever
on my first watch of tng i straight up just jumped to s3 or 4, you pick up what you need pretty quick and skip to the good part
Guilty
And Enterprise. It improved so much in s3, but good luck getting through 50 episodes to get there.
IT TAKES FAITH! FAITH OF THE HEART!
Once you’ve heard that song 50 times, it really grows on you. Last episode and it made me a bit emotional.
DS9 at least gets good towards the end of season one, and hits it’s stride in season 3. It never stops being good from there.
TNG I swear is mediocre until like season 5.
I actually liked the first season of TNG.
Me too. It’s a fun watch, getting introduced to everything. It just had the poor luck of being the least polished season of one of the best shows ever made.
What is tng?
Star Trek: The Next Generation
Thanks.
[off topic]
I started reading Neal Stephenson’s book ‘Anathem.’ Threw it down after twenty pages, because it was just ridiculous. A few months later someone told me to stick with it, the plot really starts coming together around page 200.
Yes, I read it, and yes, it takes 200 pages to start making sense.
Am I misremembering or does it have a lot of made up terms?
I always describe Stephenson this way; some college professors will just answer your question; some will tell you what page of the book to read; some will answer the question in Latin, making a pun. Stephenson loves his little enigmas.
This is Picard for me. I thought season one was alright, season two was hot garbage, but season three is what star trek fans had been waiting for all these years. Perfect conclusion, but boy was it rough getting there lol
I agree with your take on the first two, but s3 was so gratuitous I could barely stand it. A reunion episode would have been fine, but they didn’t do the story justice.
Yeah they completely lost me with the ending of S1 and I gave up on the show.
But RLM said S3 was actually good, so I watched it. Completely skipped S2. Nothing of value was lost. I guess Raffi and Seven are in a relationship? I think that’s the only thing that happened in S2 that carried over.
I think I’d have liked S3 more if I was a big TNG fan. But as it was, it was basically the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy, just that it brought back a beloved character rather than killing off a beloved character in the middle part of the story. Which of course made it so much better. But still, it’s basically the same kind of thing. It was fine. A good ending for the TNG crew.
I hope the Legacy thing can happen, I want to see how things are going on DS9 because that’s my Star Trek.
Totally agree, and yeah DS9 is my favorite trek as well (I’m actually watching it as I type this on my phone lol) so would love a revisit to the promenade.
But Picard season three was what I think TNG needed for a good wrap-up. It didn’t blow me away but the final scene of the last episode was perfect for me.
RLM didn’t like Strange New Worlds, I couldn’t take their Picard S3 recommendation
