13% of Democrats agree with Trump on that.

What the actual fuck?

          • Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            This country, possibly your grandfathers or great-grandfathers (and in many cases grandmothes), went to war against Nazis, as did most of the world. There were a few fringe sympathizers, but they weren’t representative of “the greatest generation.”

            This shit is a new Nazi wave, and it’s not a continuation of something. It’s a flare-up of an old ugly root. All over the world these shits are gaining ground. New media empowers them.

            • EldritchFeminity
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              The idea that the world united against the horrible atrocities of the Nazis is post-war propaganda. Your average person didn’t know anything about what was going on until photos of the camps made their way home as we pushed into Germany itself. Most countries didn’t give a shit about the Nazis until they were on their doorstep. Most people said, “Hitler’s only saying that stuff to get elected. Once he’s in office, he’ll calm down, you’ll see.” And then they said, “Well, if we leave him alone, then he won’t bother us.”

              Many people across Europe and North America actually agreed with Hitler’s views about the Jews before “The Final Solution.” Antisemitism was common across Europe and North America, if not the globe. In Mein Kampf, Hitler refers to America as the sisterland across the ocean that shares his values.

              The phrase “Make America Great Again” was used by the pro-isolationism political group the America First Committee, who formed in 1940 and dissolved after the attack on Pearl Harbor, who largely opposed support for the UK. And they had over 800,000 members from all different backgrounds (from Democrats and Republicans to communists and anti-communists) with major tones of antisemitism and pro-fascist support amongst its leaders and speakers. They dissolved 4 days after Pearl Harbor and joined the war effort, not to fight the Nazis but to protect the US.

              The Nazis were inspired by the treatment of Native Americans when they started their camps, and we had our own camps for Japanese Americans. We hated the Chinese when they came here, and we hated the Irish as well. Most ethnic groups coming to the US settled in communities of their own culture from their homeland. That’s why the culture is so varied here, even across a single state. To quote somebody else, “Racism is as American as apple pie, and some people will see hatred of the first as hatred of the second.”

              I remember the days after 9/11, when attacks on black people doubled, attacks on Jews tripled, and Muslim parents were asking their kids if they wanted to change their name to something more American to avoid being bullied. That racism has always been present. It was just often couched in the lie of being edgy jokes or just that one racist uncle at the family party. The biggest differences today are that they’re no longer afraid to say it openly, and the number of young men caught up in the rhetoric of the online fascist pipeline that gives them a target to blame all the problems in their life on. The ironic racist jokes of their teen and childhood years stopped being ironic at some point and became their actual beliefs.

            • n2burns@lemmy.ca
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              The idea that Nazi sympathisers were a fringe group is an vast oversimplification of history. Yes, America chose to fight against the Nazis, but there were huge racist/eugenist movements at the time that included high-ranking politicians and military personnel. Look up the America First movement for just one example.

              I first learned about this from the podcast ULTRA. I kept having to check their sources and do further research, because what they said sounded so wild that I felt I should have already known it. Instead it’s just another example of people not wanting to teach their uncomfortable history like the Tulsa race massacre, Indian residential schools in the US and Canada, the Tuskegee syphilis study, etc, etc, etc.

              Also, I’d suggest you learn about the history of Nazi Germay. The Nazis weren’t this huge supermajority of the German population, they just had people in the right positions, took power by force, and the populace went along with it. It’s not hard to see parallels with a lot of events in US history where if things went just a bit different the USA could have become a racist, authoritarian state.

            • Kintarian@lemmy.world
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              In 2016 they said it couldn’t happen here. They laughed at the idea of trump getting elected. They were shocked when he was elected and racism once again reared its ugly head. In Germany they said it couldn’t happen here and look what happened. Now we have Trump, the racists have come out of the woodwork, project 2025 was revealed and we’re very close to the end of America if we don’t do something.

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          Nativism is unfortunately a consistent undercurrent.

          Look up the “Know Nothing” movement.

  • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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    The US has a growing fascism problem

    It does not go away with Trump. I wish democrats would address it instead of pointing at Trump like he’s an aberration

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      Fascism is the problem. Trump is a very notable symptom, but many others are also to blame for the fascism issue, including some democrats. I believe this fixation with Trump is due to people wanting simple answers to complex problems.

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        The fixation is because there is no clear line of succession. If he fails, who steps in? They’ll splinter and fragment. They’ll still be deplorable, but less effective when not united behind a single authoritarian leader.

        • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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          Like how democrats splintered and fragmented when Biden stepped down?

          They’ll reform and continue gaining power in lower-level positions until the next election, like they’ve been doing since 2020

          I cannot emphasize how naieve it is to think this problem will go away if all we do is beat trump, or even if he dies or gets incarcerated.

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        The symptom is on the brink of winning everything.

        When you have a 42 °C fever, you focus on the fever before worrying about the infection. Dead people don’t need antibiotics.

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    That’s funny because we’re almost all immigrants, so I guess we’re all poison?

    Ehh, then again there was that whole native genocide thing.

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      Nuh uh. I was born here. My parents were born here. (/s, of course)

      Let’s not go back any further than that because it hurts the argument.

      For context, I am 50% Italian, 25% French, 12.5% Irish, and 12.5% English. At least going off what my parents had told me. I never did a DNA test or anything.

      It’s been barely 60 years since racism against Italian- and Irish-American individuals really eased up. All based on xenophobia and an anti-Catholic belief. Before that, they may as well have been Black. Or worse, Japanese.

      Tons of people alive today that experienced it first hand. Did all the lead in the paint and gasoline make them forget all about it?

      Even still today we have to tiptoe around ideas like renaming Columbus Day. On the one hand, he was a massive piece of shit. On the other hand, it’s morphed into the only holiday celebrating Italian-American heritage. I very much agree with the former, but if we are gonna go all-out on St. Patrick’s Day, Italians should have a day too.

      Maybe we could make a bigger deal out of St. Joseph. I could really go for a zeppole right about now, but that’s really all I know of the day. It’s a day for a zeppole.

    • solsangraal@lemmy.zip
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      i live in a small town full of old people who incessantly whine about people “moving here and trying to change things” from other parts of the country. while sitting on stolen cherokee land.

      among americans there is this weird fucked up notion that we are, and always were, entitled to this land, and no one else is allowed on it. including the people who were living here first. it’s been passed down through generations since the first colonists and still remains, even among democrats. so we hate “other,” but we especially hate them when they move into town. and god fucking forbid they ever speak anything but 'murican

      for context, my town still has a confederate statue because the usual “bUt MuH hIsToReEeEeEeEs”

    • VoterFrog@lemmy.world
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      The real racists are the ones calling people racist just because they hate people for no reason but race.

          • madjo@feddit.nl
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            Poe’s Law strikes again. There are people who actually say that and mean it.

            • VoterFrog@lemmy.world
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              I feel that they would at least change the framing instead of directly mirroring the OP. “Hating people for no reason but their race” is pretty clearly the definition of racism. Usually racists reframe their argument as actually being about criminality or at the very least some fear of cultural change.

  • lousyd@lemmy.sdf.org
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    Compare to George W. Bush, who said:

    “We’re also a nation of immigrants, and we must uphold that tradition, which has strengthened our country in so many ways.”

    and:

    “Some in this country argue that the solution is to — is to deport every illegal immigrant and that any proposal short of this amounts to amnesty. I disagree. It is neither wise nor realistic to round up millions of people, many with deep roots in the United States, and send them across the border.”

    and:

    “We must honor the great American tradition of the melting pot, which has made us one nation out of many peoples. The success of our country depends upon helping newcomers assimilate into our society, and embrace our common identity as Americans.”

    Source

    I’m not saying G.W. was good or anything, but god damn that’s a big change from what we see now from Republicans.

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      So, you mean everyone except the native Americans should leave America? Just trying to understand clearly the implications of what you’re suggesting :P

      In all seriousness, after all this time I would bet most people couldn’t trace a lineage to a single country now anyway.

      • dual_sport_dork 🐧🗡️@lemmy.world
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        They probably couldn’t. And Europe being what it is, a bunch of them would have lineage going back to a country that no longer exists, i.e. if they were of any of the states that were ultimately absorbed into unified Germany in the 1800’s.

        It’s all arbitrary. But we know damn well Trump and his goons don’t mean “white” people when they say “immigrants.”

  • madjo@feddit.nl
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    A third of Americans are xenophobic bigots. Got it.

    Meanwhile they proudly exclaim their great great great great grand daddy came in on the Mayflower.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
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      They also love to claim that they had a great-grandmother who was “full-blooded Cherokee” (it’s almost always Cherokee) and if you check their DNA, nope. All European.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
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      The funny thing, though, is that the people who supported slavery also generally supported immigration. And I don’t mean by importing slaves (that too, of course). They wanted immigrants because they wanted America to grow. Sure, they didn’t want black immigrants, but that’s a whole other thing. When Chinese immigrants started pouring into California during the Gold Rush era, the response wasn’t, “immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country!” it was “Hey! Dirt cheap labor! And stay out of the buildings with the posted ‘no Chinese’ signs or else.”

      So even those people, awful as they were, wouldn’t agree.

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        When Chinese immigrants started pouring into California during the Gold Rush era, the response wasn’t, “immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country!”

        Chinese Exclusion Act says hi.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
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          Okay, fair point. But that wasn’t really a “poisoning the blood of our country” thing either. It was a “they tuk’r jerbs” situation.

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            Oh, no, there was definitely strong fears at the time that foreigners would ‘ruin’ America, and blood-related arguments were far more in vogue then than now. Even foreigners as white as the Irish and Germans.

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            It was a ‘catholics are evil and all follow the commands of the pope so we can’t let them in, they’ll sell us all out to the European powers’ thing.

            Also Irish are all drunks and Italians are all criminals, unlike the wonderful people who populated this country who were the European upper crust of course, and not religious nut jobs and people fleeing debt or other crimes.

            Don’t get me started on antisemitism: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-united-states-and-the-refugee-crisis-1938-41

            Roosevelt warned that even Jewish refugees could become a threat, aiding Nazi Germany in exchange for the lives of loved ones held hostage in Europe. The FBI warned Americans to be on guard. Neither the president nor the FBI were able to provide any specific examples of Jewish refugees committing acts of espionage or sabotage.

            • Carrolade@lemmy.world
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              Not just fleeing debt or crimes. People tend to be pretty well familiar with the British Empire using Australia as a penal colony, but that didn’t really get going until after the American Revolution. Before that they just used the 13 Colonies. Not quite as far to travel, bit cheaper.

              We’ve largely blotted out that particular perception, though, replacing it with pilgrims in funny hats fleeing religious persecution. Which, there were those too, of course, but there was also quite a lot of every other sort of person.

        • InverseParallax@lemmy.world
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          For peace, he knew how monstrously cruel and evil the south was and that they would never tolerate black people as anything but chattel.

          Removing them made sense.

          I wish he wasn’t so kind and gentle, giving every slave owner to their slaves and walking away would have solved most of Americas problems to this day

    • GiddyGap@lemm.ee
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      People forget very quickly. Just look at what’s happening in Germany and Austria and the Netherlands and France and Italy. It’s like everyone’s ignoring history.

      • mectag@lemmy.world
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        Yes, and people who forget history are destined to repeat it. It’s sad to hear some people in Germany wanting to “get over” our history…

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          America’s entire Capitalist model is based on 3-month cycles of amnesia. It is designed to forget. Business could be run successful, profitable, and non-asshole, but the hunt for the next quarterly positive shareholder report by design blinds them permanently from comprehending history.

      • mectag@lemmy.world
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        You’re right. I just meant that with the background of our history, that it’s something that wasn’t just said, but actually happened, it feels more concerning.

  • rayyy@lemmy.world
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    Which immigrants? They said that about Italians, then Irish. Seems the new guys on the block are always the bad guys until they aren’t.

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        Literally African-American.

        Can we bring back lynching for a day? Just for him?

          • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
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            No no. Just for him. There’s a special place in hell for him and his clique, and the more painful way to deliver him there the better.

        • Glytch@lemmy.world
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          Lynching? Because he’s technically African-American? Wow dude.

          I agree with ending the rich and nationalizing their fortunes, but that’s a bad joke.

  • Granbo's Holy Hotrod@lemmy.world
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    I was at a Ska show last night. They played a tRump ad about the border before the music. We almost left. Surreal, honestly, for the type of crowd I would expect.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
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      Music and politics are super weird. Paul Ryan, former Republican speaker of the house, was an RATM fan until Tom Morello told him to fuck off. Ann Coulter is a massive Deadhead. So is Tucker Carlson. There’s even a photo of Tucker hanging out with Jerry Garcia when he was in his 20s. The story is in an interview here if you can stomach it: https://www.maxraskin.com/interviews/interview-with-tucker-carlson

      And then there’s the musicians themselves- Johnny Ramone, Alice Cooper, Gene Simmons, all conservatives.

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        Music and right-wing politics are weird. I can’t even begin to count how many bands were proudly anti-war in the 70s. Then there’s the punk movement, which was highly critical of Reagan and Bush.

        I guess music and a message of hope/protest works better than a message of oppression, especially when appealing to youth.

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          Springsteen’s Born in the U.S.A. is about a Vietnam veteran who has been fucked over by the country he came back to.

          Reagan used it as part of his flag-waving “it’s morning in America” bullshit because no one listened to the lyrics beyond “I was born in the U.S.A.”

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            Yeah, it’s like Trump playing CCR’s Fortunate Son. Fogerty was pissed.

            Some folks are born made to wave the flag Hoo, they’re red, white and blue And when the band plays “Hail to the chief” Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord

            It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no senator’s son, son It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no furtunate one, no

            Some folks are born silver spoon in hand Lord, don’t they help themselves, Lord? But when the taxman come to the door Lord, the house lookin’ like a rummage sale, yeah

            It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no millionaire’s son, no, no It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no fortunate one, no

            Yeah-yeah, some folks inherit star-spangled eyes Hoo, they send you down to war, Lord And when you ask 'em, “How much should we give?” Hoo, they only answer, “More, more, more, more”

            It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no military son, son, Lord It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no fortunate one, one

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
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              He also plays YMCA at the end of his rallies constantly. I guess his audience doesn’t know what that song is about or who The Village People even were.

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              Dude, I have anxiety (/s) from some of the people I have heard blast this. Like…YOU ARE the FORTUNATE ONE…the square footage of your pool would beg to differ on the amount of oppression the system is hoisting upon you :)

      • Granbo's Holy Hotrod@lemmy.world
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        Yeah, I get it. I was really into Dead Kennedys and Jellos spoken words. The whole movement was anti-rayguns. It’s just super weird. I imagine Paul Ryan is so dumb he didn’t realize he was the forces in which we we were raging. Conservatives are not big on context. i.e. YMCA…