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Me looking for Kamala Harris’s “radical Marxist policies”
I’ve got a set of microscopes I could lend you.
You’re going to need an overactive imagination too. Possibly a collection of cognitive impairments.
More cognitive impairments equals more human, right?
Surelly lots and lots of psychadelic drugs would achieve a similar effect!?
The five dollar milkshake.
You don’t put bourbon in it or nothin’?
Wtf
no one seems to like my memes
It’s because they’re strange. The message they’re communicating is inscrutable.
it’s trying to sell Kamala to anarchists
But why? That’s a very hard sell and a very inefficient use of your time. At best you could convince some anarchists of the harm reduction argument, but you could never convince anarchists to be enthusiastic about voting for Kamala, which is what those very absurd memes seem to be trying to do.
Edit: And very ineffectively I might add. I still can’t make heads or tails of what those memes are trying to say.
it makes me feel better about voting for her. also I think it is funny
Love it! 😅😅
God I wish Harris was a radical Marxist
Democrats: “let’s pass some reasonable reforms to temper the ill effects of deregulated capitalism”
Republicans: “that’s socialism and you’re a Marxist!”
Youth: “we want reform so I guess we like socialism!”
Republicans: “the radical left is indoctrinating our kids!”
Followed by :
Democrats: “Fine we’ll do whatever you want! Just don’t call us commies!”
Democrats: “let’s pass some reasonable reforms to temper the ill effects of deregulated capitalism”
Which democrats? The fuck?
I promise you, the Republican party doesn’t care who they offend as long as it’s an out-group.
Genuinely, watching Harris be referred to as a radical communist hurts me
Radical Marxist communist fascist or something wasn’t it. Lol
Radical:❔ maybe, if she can skateboard
Marxist: ❌ lol
Communist: ❌
Fascist: ✅ could be worse though
(I’m voting for Kamala, don’t be grumpy)
I’m not sure how many of the youngins remember that use of the word ‘radical’.
Only those who are totally tubular.
And Daniel
I kind of hate dad jokes, but you got me there.
🤘
Ah yes, those well known non-radical fascists
You 🤝 Trump
Things I don’t like are fascism
in political scholarship, radical has a specific meaning, and fascism is not radical. it is reactionary
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Lol
Knowingly voting for a fascist. That’s interesting. You’re different.
I was just impressed trump graduated from communist to Marxist. Getting more specific and less accurate!
I swear the republicans are running pr for democrats. Harris went from “communist” to Marxist, and not even attached to Lenin!
Republicans don’t know the difference between the types of communists.
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I laughed out loud at the debate where he said Harris’ father was a “marxist professor of economics”. That is not a thing.
What do you mean “that’s not a thing?” I don’t believe he’s ever explicitly called himself a Marxist but he has cited Marx as an influence on his works, as a professor of economics.
One of Harris’s most notable contributions to economics is his 1978 monograph Capital Accumulation and Income Distribution, which is a critique of orthodox economic theories that provides an alternative, synthesizing the work of David Ricardo, Kalecki, Marx, Roy Harrod, and others. Harris employs mathematical modeling to explore the relationship between the accumulation of capital and income inequality, economic growth, economic instability, and other phenomena, arguing that typical theories fail to adequately consider power, class, and historical context.
It seems basically true that he’s a Marxist professor of economics. It’s just not really relevant to Kamala since she’s an entirely different person.
Also, any economist worth their salt has studied Marxism to some degree. Love him or hate him, Marx is one of the most influential economists in history!
Why not a Ricardian? I guess it doesn’t have that same zing.
If someone called him a Ricardian professor of economics and someone else was like, “Lol that’s not a thing” I’d say that the first person was more right than the second, with the same disclaimers I said in my comment.
Again, I think the whole issue is silly. Kamala is not her father. And I don’t see being a Marxist as being a bad thing. Considering how much the term gets slung around in US politics to people it doesn’t apply to at all, like Kamala Harris or Obama, I think it’s kind of silly to push back against it when it’s being used with someone who could credibly be called a Marxist. Especially when the much more clear and relevant line is that her father is irrelevant.
Marxist is less specific than communist
I’m more of a practical American socialist than a radical communist (since that’s unlikely to happen here) but it offends me because republicans are just so ignorant. The average Republican essentially has no idea what socialism, communism or fascism actually are, and conservatives have been using this as a scary label for my entire life.
I’m more of a practical American socialist than a radical communist (since that’s unlikely to happen here)
Why do you say this? What’s a “practical American Socialist?”
- practical: I don’t have any delusions that the US will implement leftism more extreme than EU style socialist policies any time soon
- American: I’m from the US
- socialist: I feel the government should be involved more in regulating industries, owning certain categories of services, moderating excess wealth, and ensuring the financial/economic well-being of citizens, as opposed to the conservative style which is basically ‘well, if you’re poor then fuck off’.
- practical: I don’t have any delusions that the US will implement leftism more extreme than EU style socialist policies any time soon
The EU doesn’t have socialist policies, you’re referring to social safety nets.
- socialist: I feel the government should be involved more in regulating industries, owning certain categories of services, moderating excess wealth, and ensuring the financial/economic well-being of citizens, as opposed to the conservative style which is basically ‘well, if you’re poor then fuck off’.
So you’re talking Social Democracy, like the Nordics, not Socialism.
Not precisely as I mentioned public ownership of some industries and services that are privately owned. Healthcare and drug production would be two good examples.
Those are found in the nordics, that’s still dependent on Capitalism as the basis unless you also want to entirely restructure government.
I’d love for the US economic system to somehow be wholly restructured, but incremental improvements are the best we can do currently.
Not really, we have no actual control over policy.
Look, people have been debating the definition of socialism for decades, and you guys are not going to figure out here today on Lemmy World.
its pretty settled actialy, its the worker ownership of the means of production
It’s not a debate so much as a propaganda war where every state is lying.
Defeatist (based on observation of fact)
Defeatist because I’m not pushing for full communism or are you referring to something else?
The thing about defeatism is that sometimes it’s just correct, the war is lost. Socialism as in the workers owning the means of production is a currently impossible concept for America. Social democracy would need a tidal wave of the YOOTHS building a New Deal-type political coalition as the Boomers die off but it’s something you can work towards.
The capitalist and nationalist propaganda against communism has been at a completely insane level in the US for 70 years now… yeah, it’s hard to go against, but I do have faith it’s dying out. Conservatives can’t even really remember the USSR currently and younger people, mainly liberal (IN A US POLITICS SENSE) can clearly see the problems with the current system and have desire and will to make it change. Still lots of completely deluded younger folks too, though, and the levels of fascist propaganda we’re dealing with now are massive.
Both parties agree on the standard indoctrination. They only disagree about the purpose/topics of the brainwashing. Neither party wants it to include an honest discussion about socialism, fascism, etc. It’s a self-perpetuating problem where the indoctrinators don’t even understand what this stuff means.
I agree that corporate hegemony is non-negotiable in mainstream US politics. The question is what to do about it, and which version is worse. Republicans are far, far worse about everything that is on the table. Democrats are willing to reign in the corporations a little bit and actually help people. The Republican propaganda and the insane policies they think of are far, far worse.
In order not to be confounded with economic socialists, who the right accuses of wanting everything for free at the expense of others, I always inform people that I am a Nathan J. Robinson socialist.
I read about Robinson and it all sounds pretty reasonable.
Im not offended as much as I am disappointed in the Democrat party, why aren’t they as cool as the Republican say they are. Whenever Trump calls them “far left communists” I think “damn I wish”, instead they’re boring center right liberals. Also I was promised by Trump that the Democrats would end capitalism, kill capitalists, instiute a worker owned economy, open the borders to immigration, enforce Trans rights, promote actual diversity, and unify the left under the red banner.
Dems are as cool as republicans because they’re the same thing. The dems aren’t going to call republicans fascist because the dems share all the same symptoms. They’re not going to call out the republicans for supporting genocide because they also support genocide. They’re not going to call out republicans on supporting the prison state because dems also support the prison state. The dems aren’t going to criticize the republicans for serving capital because the dems serve capital. Etc.
You gotta realize these politicians are agreeing on much much more than they disagree. It’s what’s not debated that’s most important.
Teenager energy right here, apparently functioning everyday life is boring and some wanna make some french style revolution cause raging hormones and underdeveloped brain. I promise you grow out of it though
Everyday life is not functioning 👍
I am very sorry for you. Let’s make a total revolution then and upend everything because Cowbee cannot function
It likely doesn’t function for you either, unless you’re a business owner or landlord
I am a landlady yes but that doesn’t change anything
Called it.
I provide service of housing in the capital city near best jobs and nightlife to 10 people. Not many want to bother even but thanks to me people have opportunity to better their lives.
I could just sell it all and buy some lazy stocks or the like and not even bother. It’s actually a bit of work to keep it all operational and provide these accommodations
Capitalist scum.
Wow aren’t you angry
Opinion irrelevant
when do you grow out of it? I’m in my mid thirties and the urge to water the tree of freedom has nothing but grown.
Well I guess there are exceptions. I blame trans/lgbt internet bubbles where desperate flock to. If no one loves you except commies you kinda are bound to become one permanently. Almost happened here too
This is some of the dumbest shit I’ve read in a while.
You have both such a narrow understanding of political positions as well as, seemingly, a narrow perspective of other people’s lives.
I can tell you from personal experence that Trans/LGBT bubbles as you call it, are incredably liberal and very rarely communist, Second have you considered why they are desperate, or was that enough for you to dismiss them. Third… do you know what Communism is? fourth, do you mean “here too” as you almost became a communist, or where you live almost did fifth, please learn what communism is, and also understand why there are spaces like the LGBT spaces,
I see that the red army dogs have responded to my calls. Good. The more the merrier
This is what lemmy excels at. You can be sure that there is a horde of commies waiting for a call to brigade some comment that tovarish designated
Of course you are all theoretical communists, probably neeting. First to the wall
First, finaly someone noticed my username so thank you for starting your correct accusation of me being a communist origionaly at my name and not my instence
second, no one told me to orde or brigade, did I post alot to you, yes but that is because as I was reading through this it was your posts that seemed to make me the most upset, or give me the urge to talk to. I have no idea who this Tovarish is, no would I follow them with no reason
last, what do you mean “theoretical communist” this seems like something that you can throw that is desinged to picit in such a way that it becomes unfalsifyable, let alsone your last part makes it so that the only way to falsify your claim is to atleast partialy dox myself. I can tell you I am in both education and trade if that makes you feel any better, beyond that I do not feel it wise to scream it on the internet.
this also answers none of the things I brought up, other than welcoming me, a thing I do want to thank you for you did nothing but accuse me of brigading, having no mind of my own, and not being a real comunist. I fail to see how this is productive
Well it certainly made you to produce some big wall of text that’s a bit too long to indulge reading
41 year old here. Not everyone grows up to be a fascist repub.
Socialist right here.
I’m 37 and want this.
Coming off as your accusations here
wanna make some french style revolution
And not smart enough to keep your ignorance of history under your hat to boot
great first impression
Counterpoint, you’re literally a capitalist. Just because the system benefits you doesn’t mean it benefits the working class.
I am and it’s fucking great lemme tell you that. You should try it some time
I am and it’s fucking great lemme tell you that. You should try it some time
Now that is teenager energy.
That is insanely out of touch, oh yeah ill just casually aquire capital because I have millions of dollars lying around. It ain’t like im struggling with low wages and an incredibly high cost of living. Consider talking to people outside of your circle of capitalists and maybe try talking to some working class people.
Idk my cost of living is like low as fuck 1000$ maybe maximum.
No one of you even asked or stated where you live so this whole discussion doesn’t even make sense from the start.
You are just so self centered to assume everyone is American westoid it’s not even funny
It doesn’t matter where you live, be it the US, Europe, or Australia, the cost of living is factually speaking going up in all capitalist countries while wages stagnate. The vast majority of people cannot afford to own capital, basic Capitalist economics state that the working class does not own the means of production. Also why did you just assume im American?
You’re DAFt. Hopefully you’re able to grow out of it.
I am daft punk
I know so I’ll provide some clarity: dumb as fuck twit
Make me some lasagna
It’s just an hyperbole about how leftists feel about vaguely centrist policies.
It’s worse than that, Dems today are literally more right wing than Richard Nixon. Nixon literally wanted Federal universal healthcare at one point, started the EPA and expanded welfare.
Democrats should ask themselves why Republicans are more worried about imaginary communists than actual Democrats
Is this a genuine comment? Or some n-th level joke I’m too normie understand?
Because it reads to me like you’re trying to redirect a tired, Comservative refrain that anything politically Left of Reagonomics is Communism (which hails back to the Cold War and the Red Scare) into some dogwhistle admission by the GOP that they are the same as the DNP and are, in fact, actually worried about Communists.
Which sounds ridiculous.
Dog whistle admission? No I don’t think that republicans and democrats believe they are the “same” and I don’t think that communists believe that GOP and dems believe that about themselves. Some young online communists might believe that Republicans and democrats are the same, since they are both capitalist parties, but that’s kind of a coarse analysis and I don’t think its great messaging.
Then I’ll have to ask you what the original comment meant as you’ve denied the only obvious take I could read from it.
Seems to me like they’re simply implying that the GOP knows they can’t beat Democrats on policy so they create this Communist Strawman to scare their constituents. It’s pretty basic GOP SOP.
Republicans aren’t afraid of democrats because dems aren’t a threat to republican power. Republican policy threatens the lives of millions of women, children, bipoc, lgbtq+, etc., but dems can only stave off the worst abuses, such as a second trump term (they’d better be able to, so far looks like he’s cooked) or launch a campaign once the rights have been taken away. And yes its true, republicans and democrats get funding from many of the same sources, democrats have even funded goofball republicans they thought would be easier to defeat (see desantis, trump). Republicans have nothing to fear from a democrat. I am wishing that democrats were more self reflective of these reasons and many others; but rather than do an ounce of self reflection “the only obvious” take you could get made no sense. Its sadly quite telling, as to how otherwise good, intelligent people are able to believe and adhere to the nonexistent “back to brunch” political program of the democrats.
Hope that clarifies my perspective for you a smidge
It’s probably the whole “yeh, still capitalism. Still big oil. Still big pharma. Still genocide and world-police”.
And you show that Dems are better on all those things. But because Dems don’t fully SOLVE 4/4 of them, it doesn’t matter who you vote for because you still get fucked.It’s bullshit.
Dems have more social benefit policies and track record of social improvements than reps.
ACA, vet funding/care, insulin etc pricing, student loans. Hopefully things like unions, but idk if I have been caught up in propaganda that Dems don’t care about unions.That’s a desperate list. Student loans, eh?
The only real form of vet care is abolishing imperialism and the military.
Both sides are wrong, just that Democrats are center-wrong, while Republicans are far-wrong.
They’re right-wrong. Social democracy is a centrist position, not neoliberalism.
I q
Or… just start pushing actual socialist policy; since everything gets called socialism anyway, we may as well enjoy it.
Why would they? The Democrats are one wing of a state dominated by monopolist Capitalists, they serve the monopolist Capitalists.
But which socialism? The economic socialism that those on the right hate, or the true social Socialism of which so many enjoy the fruits?
When are we going to start PUBLICLY calling out those on the right who accepted COVID stimulus checks from the government? This was a blatantly socialist program, bigger than the “Obamaphones” even (before you go off on me for citing Obamaphones, keep in mind that I believe a smartphone with service is a human right.) we’ve got all these people walking around from the right to talk about how much they hate socialism but that 3,200 seemed to come in pretty handy for most of them.
Social programs are not socialism.
You should read more and type less.
Social programs are not socialism. The covid checks were not socialist.
Can confirm. Every time the reps call Kamala a “comrade” or “Communist” I die a little bit inside.
They’re using a word their base is afraid of to paint their enemies in a negative light.
Their words aren’t for any of us.
They’ll change to using anarchist satanists or whatever once their base has reached somatic satiation and “communist” no longer generates enough of the right dopamine hit.
Oh I’m aware, believe me. The world would be a much better place if Kamala was actually a Communist is what I’m saying.
If Kamala had tried to do anything vaguely socialist while AG or Senator, they’d have gakked her like they did Harvey Milk.
Silicon Valley leadership wants to turn California into a fully techno-fascist dystopia. Nobody who has climbed the ladder as Dem, Repub, or Indie politician has lasted long against that effort. Harris isn’t an exception. She’s the kind of politician a state produces when anyone more liberal than Gruesome Newsome is systematically excluded from the party.
Exactly. The entire electoral system is a great filtering process.
Or they’ll get lucky and a new term like Trans or BLM will come along.
Hate is hate. People that hate will hate. Societies that don’t respond quickly and firmly to reduce hate will grow more hate. Etc .
Ideas come from material conditions, hatred of trans people, black people, etc. is a result of rising fascism due to decay in Capitalism and proletarianization of the Petite Bourgeoisie.
Yeah. Good ol fear leading to authoritarianism. One day maybe humans will able to teach enough history to enough humans living on earth at one time to finally learn to not repeat these cycles…
I truly had no idea the English name was similar to the French one. TIL something.
The English Name is the french name carried over, to be fair
Indeed, but just to be sure, is the meaning the same? The lower fringe/extremity of the bourgeoisie, often with more cultural capital than economical (teachers, non-pauperized nurses, young journalists, PhD in social sciences, etc.), joyfully rebellious but also with high levels of strict adherence to the established order, main agents of the gentrification of formerly popular urban neighborhood but whose younger generations can sometimes adhere to revolutionary perspectives, strongly despised by orthodox marxists while being the primary audience of such movements/orgs?
Generally the Petitie Bourgeoisie are the lower stratum of the Bourgeoisie proper who are proletatianized by the formation of Monopoly Capitalism, ie small business owners.
‘communist’ has been a hot word since the 50s and I don’t see any sign of it ever slowing down
Agreed … but it’s also kind of meaningless. Which it my point. It’s an emotion generating word. Not a “communicating an idea or concept” word. So when it’s said it’s only ever really used to make you react emotionally.
But you can only get so worked up with only one “hate” word. To continue the cycle they gotta add new ones to keep you keyed up.
The right doesn’t care about the idea or concept, if they found out that blurting out the meaningless phrase ‘Blaguoasrunt’ at a loud volume triggered people, they would do it, it would catch on, and people would make merchandise about it.
Regressive communications are the death of meaning, and I do not mean that casually. They take words and abuse them so much that everyone else stops caring about the word, regardless of what it meant before.
The word ‘Patriot’ is a great example. No one I know would appreciate that title because constant right wing misuse of it has twisted its meaning even in common phrases.
‘communist’ has been a hot word since the 50s
Make it 1939, if you live in Eastern Europe.
Well shit.
“Explain to me what you think a communist is”
I guarantee they give a wrong answer if they can even figure one out.
To be fair, most people on Lemmy.world can’t either. The vast majority of people in the west have not read Marx, or if they have done so, they have only read the Communist Manifesto perhaps once. Communism is so thoroughly demonized in the Imperial Core that only a minor fraction have even read Marx, and only a fraction among them have read more than just the CM.
When I heard Trump calling her “Marxis-Leninist” I was like mate you don’t even know the beginning of the beginning of even socialism.
My favorite quote from that fuckwad is “Lenin. Leh-neen, as they say.” Dude has no fucking clue
Idk how much is weapons grade stupidity and how much is that affect reactionaries adopt around not rberimg things they dislike.
They have an endless buzzword pocket that they cycle around. Marxist-Leninist, Communist, Socialist, Transgender, Illegal, CRT, DEI, etc.
Is it forbidden in English to use commas?
Too close to the word commi
Commas are somewhat discouraged… or at least discretion with commas is encouraged. We have a rule about commas. “If in doubt, don’t.”
We should only use commas for certain prescribed circumstances or if the comma is necessary for clarity.
That said I will defend the Oxford comma to my last breath.
The irony being that now people use ellipses to mark a sentence pause, which isn’t really how an ellipsis is meant to be used. They were supposed to be for removing unnecessary but implied language from quotes. Agreed on the oxford comma though.
Yeah I like the … despite knowing it’s really for something like a trailing list. Its use seems regional even within the US. Our business partners in Chicago didn’t like it when we included the dots in emails.
That being said every comma they did use was also wrong.
Oh good point. When you nest something into commas like that the sentence is supposed to still make sense when you remove the bit between the commas.
According to Cormac McCarthy? Yes.
My forgotten friend, the ; is always sad that people forget that they exist.
As i always say its not the communists its the tankies. Communists want a different economic system but still agree on the equality of people and they can either want an autocratic or democratic system(from what i see simple communists usually want democracy). Then theres the tankies. They support full autocratic governments that are usually not even communitst like china and want a violent revolution. Often times they are even transphobic. Its the one group of people that annoys me more than nazis because they are basically nazis but on my side of the political compass. Also im socdem and have to explain to everyone that no that is not communism but tbf most people dont like communism because they teach its bad and not because they got to the conclusion with their own knowledge.
As i always say its not the communists its the tankies. Communists want a different economic system but still agree on the equality of people and they can either want an autocratic or democratic system(from what i see simple communists usually want democracy). Then theres the tankies. They support full autocratic governments that are usually not even communitst like china and want a violent revolution.
What do you mean by an “autocratic system?” All Communists support democratic systems, the idea of there being some especially evil Communists that don’t want democratic systems is unfounded. Additionally, all Communists want revolution, reformism is anti-Marxist to the core. The State and Revolution is around 25% Marx and Engels quotes and goes over why Marxists believe Revolution is the only path to Communism, and goes over how to make a far more democratic government.
Often times they are even transphobic.
Who? The far-right American Communist Party are not Communists and reject Marxism. The 3 most Communist-friendly Lemmy instances are the most militantly defensive of trans individuals on Lemmy.
Why do you think the ACP is right wing and reject Marxism? Literally they mention being Marxist-Leninist multiple times on the website you link. Nothing I’ve ever heard them espouse has been right wing, but I’d love if you could point me to some analysis that explains how you arrived at that conclusion.
The ACP is a group of PatSocs, also known as MAGA Communism. They advocate for Patriotism and Nationalism within the Imperial Core, as opposed to an emphasis on Internationalism, which means it is opportunist and revisionist at minimum and plays into the hands of Imperialists. Ie, PatSocs side with the Imperialist Capitalists of their own country and advocate for central planning and other “Marxist” ideas.
They are similar to the German Nazi Party but with more lip service to Marxism.
This is not to be confused with the Communist Party of the USA, which is Reformist and thus Revisionist.
Sounds a lot like the USSR, were they not PatSocs?
Nope. The USSR obviously wasn’t in the Imperial core.
Thanks for elaborating.
Similarly, when I learned the error of my ways and decide to join the American socialist party, I learned that they were just a bunch of trans-fascists using the name and popularity of Socialism. This is a new world folks, nothing is as it appears.
What do you mean by an “autocratic system?”
Many red fash support the states of North Korea, Russia, China, etc.
Ofc “real commies” would never support any state. But there aren’t many real commies out there. Most identify as anarchists, nihilists, etc. in order to avoid ideology/terminology that’s largely been recuperated by authoritarianism, capitalism, statism, etc.
Many red fash support the states of North Korea, Russia, China, etc.
“Red-fash” isn’t a thing, except perhaps for PatSocs and MAGA Communists, like the aforementioned American Communist Party. There are Marxists, and Marxists generally defend AES. There are no Marxists who support Russia except in its anti-NATO stance.
Additionally, this doesn’t answer my question. What specifically makes a government authouritarian?
Ofc “real commies” would never support any state.
Are Marx, Engels, and Lenin not “real commies?” I suggest reading The State and Revolution, it’s around 25% Marx and Engels quotes and goes over the Marxist Theory of the State. Specifically, the Marxist position is that the State can’t be abolished overnight, so we must smash the Capitalist state and replace it with a more democratic worker-state that will itself work out contradictions, transitioning from a policing of people to an administration of things, a state-as-not-a-state.
Most identify as anarchists, nihilists, etc. in order to avoid ideology/terminology that’s largely been recuperated by authoritarianism.
Ah, that’s why you didn’t answer the authoritarian question and reject the Marxist analysis of the State, you’re an Anarchist and are trying to claim full ownership of the word “Communism” and reject all of Marxism itself. I suggest reading Marxist theory, not just Goldman and Kropotkin.
Ooh! Ooh! Who are the three most communist friendly Lemmy instances and do they want to be friends?
Hexbear and Lemmygrad are the two explicitly Communist instances, and Lemmy.ml has Marxist-Leninist admins (though apparently they claim .ml is because it’s cheap, not for Marxism-Leninism).
Scared of discussing now are we?
Blocked lol
You obviously have not once been operating in good faith, so I stopped engaging.
Yes everybody wants a democratic system until that democratic system picks the guy/gal that you don’t like. Then the mail-in ballots come out.
Communism != Democracy.
You are maybe thinking of socio democracy.
For the tankies, spot on though.
Edit: what the hell people, communism is power to the people through revolution, there’s no fucking democracy in it.
Democracy is democracy, not communism smh.
Edit: In a democratic way I guess, all my comments were removed. Lots of commie bots here lol
on the contrary, communism is the final form of democracy.
capitalism != democracy because capital owners have a disproportionate amount of social, economic and political power, if not all. in a capitalist society the laws and police are there largely to protect and preserve capital and not you.
I would suggest that the final form would be anarcho-syndicalism.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism
I also think our basic human natures make such cooperative systems unlikely on any large scale.
I’m using communism as a bit of a catch-all term. the specifics are not my concern so long as the people hold the power.
and i disagree with your statement there. human nature is whatever we do with it. there’s nothing natural about capitalism.
I didn’t say anything about capitalism being natural. I said the final stage, anarcho-syndicalism, is probably unachievable. And no, human nature is not whatever we do with it. You will not just make things like jealousy, violent tendencies, the need to be controlled, and people fearing those different from them magically disappear. There will be people like that regardless of how you wish to remake the world unless you find a way to genetically engineer it all out of us. Because all of those things go back to our primate roots.
i didn’t mean to imply you said capitalism is natural. i meant there’s nothing natural about it yet the entire world revolves around it and has been for quite a while. if you put a system in place human nature is irrelevant. murder is “natural”. we have laws against it. anarchism shouldn’t be just total chaos, it just removes unnecessary hierarchies.
things like jealousy and violence are usually linked to economic and social hardship, and in a fair economic and free social system it should either go away or be the result of psychological problems which should have remedies in an anarchist system as well.
Psychological problems only have humane remedies in such a system if the person with the problem agrees to the remedy. What if they don’t?
Education?
How do you educate away violent mental illness?
Well, I mean, we are capital in a sense…
Communism is just a desire/plan for having democratic control over the economic sphere as well as the political sphere. The authoritarian stuff is just some people taking a more rapid/paternalistic approach to achieving it.
This thread is just getting better.
Communism is not authoritarian, you’re mixing up dictatorships calling themselves communists with communism.
Words are important.
Read The State and Revolution. Communists support the replacement of bourgeois “democracy” with far more democratic structures via a popular revolution. Asserting the will of the many against the will of the minority is democratic.
Revolution isn’t democracy.
Communism is based on revolution, to remove the bad apples, not on democracy & voting.
You all in this thread are like Good!=Bad ? Nooo there is good in bad!!
Democracy and Communism are two very (very) distinct systems. What did you do in school to confound or conflate the two of them?!
Revolution isn’t democracy.
Revolution is a mass popular movement to remove the minority from power to install the majority. A revolutionary movement without mass backing is not successful. Revolution is not done via election, yes, but that does not mean it is not democratic.
Communism is based on revolution, to remove the bad apples, not on democracy & voting.
Communism uses a revolution to create a more democratic system than the prior dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.
You all in this thread are like Good!=Bad ? Nooo there is good in bad!!
No idea what this means.
Democracy and Communism are two very (very) distinct systems. What did you do in school to confound or conflate the two of them?
Communists advocate for mass popular movement and the installation of a democratic worker-state that will wither away over time into an administration of things, rather than a policing of people.
Read the book I linked.
Democratic and democracy isn’t the same thing.
I get what you are going at, but I just hate the muddying of the waters.
Thanks for the link but I know enough about political systems (theoretical and real, and those to oretend be) and don’t need some random indoctrination ;-)
Democratic and democracy isn’t the same thing.
Communists advocate asserting the will of the majority to make a more democratic system. Both sides are democratic, even if they aren’t reformist.
Thanks for the link but I know enough about political systems (theoretical and real, and those to oretend be) and don’t need some random indoctrination ;-)
How is it “indoctrination?” Why speak about Communism at all if you don’t know what Communists are talking about in the first place?
I do know what communism is, I do not need to read some random book you refer to to “understand”.
So I should read books that communists are talking about?
That’s indoctrination 101.
Go get a history book instead or trying to pump up your communism with cozy democracy.
Democracy is good, communism is an utopian dream that is very nice but never functions, like anarchism and a bunch of others. But I guess your book says that it can work, like for real this time.
You don’t need to answer, we’re on completely different wavelengths here.
Good luck with your communism though, I’m staying in democracy!
Don’t waste your time with permanently online commies
They are too self unaware to even know how dumb they sound and unfortunately infest this site like some kind of fruit flies. Harmless but annoying
I even sometimes collect their hot takes for public viewing elsewhere. It is never ending source of entertainment
Communism and Democracy are not mutually exclusive, they are on two different axes.
You’re thinking of Communism and Capitalism, which are polar opposites.
However, revolution is a form of democracy. Direct action by the People.
Academic question: are they really on your side of the political compass if they want less democracy and less trans rights?
Socialism means shared control of the factors of production… if the control isn’t shared, then de jure landlords are just replaced by de facto “landlords”, like in Animal Farm.
Yes but the political compass is a vast oversimplification of ones opionions. Think about it. How can nazism, a social ideology, be on the same axis as communism, an economical idiology. This is part of what im trying to point out in the original comment. Its interesting how you can be both a communist and a tankie but on the right side its basically just nazi nothing else. The left side is much more diverse as you bunch in basically everyone who isnt a nazi. The problem is the right often masquerades as something else and then slowly pulls people to nazism while on the left side we are always arguing with ourselves over smaller matters while we let the right eat up everything.
Personally I think ancaps are way different from Nazis, despite both being far right. Fascism is a merger of state and corporate power, which makes it at least partially an economic ideology.
Does anybody else find it interesting that the name Nazi referred to national socialists? Now apply that to this discussion.
Please stop talking about there being “a political compass” for crying out loud!
Ok then same question but without “of the political compass”
Then theres the tankies… they are basically nazis
They like to be called tankies. It makes them feel powerful and vanguardy.
Just call them red fash. More accurate.
The real fascists are the ones who put fascists in jail instead of in charge of nato
As a communist… Yeah
