I love chicken, pork, and beef. I have tried the meat alternatives and I like most of what I have tried. I would be vegetarian if it honestly wasn’t so expensive sometimes. Not to say meat isn’t also expensive.
I work with a guy who is a vegan and honestly. I don’t get the hate towards the life style. Guy is as healthy as they get and morally more sound in the area of food than I am.
What am I missing on Vegan hate or even vegetarian hate. No one imposes on me. Honestly, I feel like they have something figured out I dont.
There is a small vocal minority that essentially equates anyone who keeps eating meat regardless of circumstances, preference or nuance, [to killers, murderers, etc]. Honestly a large amount of people would take a vegan option if it tasted the same, had the same texture, was as cheap or cheaper than meat, was as accessible, and didn’t require learning a new skill set. There’s also the availability when eating out.
Antagonizing people like that is a good way to have them disagree out of spite, and the militant vegans always have a way of inserting themselves into every conversation. I had to block people on lemmy because I just didnt want to deal with that here.
Unfortunately a vegan who is a good person isn’t alwayd out there proselytizing at every chance they get in a non intrusive manner, so people rarely if ever see vegans who are reasonable people relative to vegan extremists.
Honestly a large amount of people would take a vegan option if it tasted the same, had the same texture, was as cheap or cheaper than meat, was as accessible, and didn’t require learning a new skill set.
And businesses would stop burning fossil fuels if renewables had the same portability, same output, were cheaper, available everywhere, and didn’t require learning a new skill set. They can still be criticised for doing so, I’m not sure what your point here is?
Keyword is small. It’s important not to extrapolate against a populace based on the actions of their extremist or reactionary members.
It’s difficult when the small minority is much louder than the majority.
But isn’t that what racist say to explain away their racism?
No?
It’s true.
The vegan hate likely comes from people who dont really know vegans or only know them from the internet so they only know the vocal minority
Oh, I’ve met some annoying ones in real life.
Mostly bandwagon hate because of a vocal minority. TBH I find it amusing the people who really ride it act just like they are complaining about.
Also strict diets require more nutritional knowledge that some seem to be lacking.
They are a small, harmless minority. Isn’t that enough? Maybe it’s made worse by the fact that they are perceived as non-violent and effeminate, because of their strong opposition to suffering, even when the victims are helpless, like animals. There is no personal risk in bullying them. It’s like the hate for environmental activists, trans-women, or liberals in general. I wouldn’t know that vegans aggressively proselytize their life-style if people didn’t aggressively tell me so; something that they share with “the gays”. Of course, people wouldn’t mind if they didn’t shove it in their faces all the time. Where have I heard that before?
The vocal minority of gays don’t call me a murderer for liking women.
Sure, but maybe they would, if you instead of liking ate their body parts and would pay an industry to kill them for that purpose? We can only speculate.
Yes, I’m quite aware vegans have a reason to be upset. Unfortunately, equating eating meat or drinking milk to personally murderering and torturing animals is not going to earn them any fans, and will in fact push people away from their just cause out of spite.
That’s not at all relevant to the comment I was responding to, though.
Believing that animals are just like us s hardly and outlandish belief, on the facts. We’re evolutionarily closely related. We have basically the same skeleton. Skull, spine, rib cage, hips, 4 extremities. Arms and legs go: 1 big bone, 2 smaller bones, and lotsa little bones. It looks to be the same with the brain.
We expect vegans not to blow up slaughterhouses or such. Fair enough. But expecting them to shut up about their beliefs is a bit much, no? Expecting them not to tell people how they feel, not to kiss in public, or hold a pride para… Sorry, wrong prosecuted minority.
I’ve heard these takes about vegans for literal decades now, and not once has an actual vegan popped up to tell me that I’m a murderer.
Okay? The ONLY thing I mentioned was them calling people murderers. Glad you haven’t, but I have had that happen. Another thing I’ve seen that I have issue with is vegans pushing their diets on their carnivorous pets. Like cats. But I have literally no problem with 99% of vegans expressing their beliefs.
Yes, I’m quite aware vegans have a reason to be upset.
their just cause
Like I said. I even think they’re usually in the right. While I’m not a vegan for my own personal reasons, I hope they eventually make a positive change in the world.
I mean, you are paying someone else to do those things for you. Or if you want to quibble over verbs, paying someone else to cause harm to animals for you.
If it’s not currently possible for you to eat a less harmful diet, that’s one thing. There’s a ton of ways that our lifestyles can cause harm, and it’s perfectly fine if you’re just not in a good place to change one particular aspect of it. Refusing to acknowledge the harm that you are causing is frankly much more concerning. From understanding comes action, after all.
I mean, you are paying someone else to do those things for you.
That’s not exactly what’s going on. I believe a more apt way to describe it would be paying somebody that has harmed animals. This may sound like a distinction without a difference, but I don’t believe it is. Whether I buy pork at a grocery store or not, they aren’t going to kill any fewer pigs because of it. It’s not like the slaughterhouse is going to butcher exactly one less pig because I stopped buying meat. If I decide not to buy pork chop the next time I go to a store, either somebody else buys the pork, it’s donated to a food bank right before expiry, or it’s just thrown away. The pig is already dead, and the meat goes somewhere regardless.
Unless you’re the type of person that eats meat every day, there is very little change you can make at an individual level. Of course, much like voting, change starts to happen once you get a lot of people to make that individual choice. Get 20 people to stop buying pork, and the store might order less. But at that point, I would argue it is far more of a societal issue. So while we are directly responsible for what happens to farm animals, I don’t think it’s at the level of us literally killing them ourselves.
Pardon me for fighting you on this, but I believe you are incorrect. You’re abdicating your responsibility, in assuming that those animals will always be killed.
Put it this way. If you lived next to a chicken farm, and drove over there any time you needed a chicken, and watched them kill it for you, would you have any qualms about saying it was killed for you? Why does having it go through a grocery store first somehow change this? However you get your meat, those animals were still killed for your benefit.
The average American eats about 250 pounds of meat in a year. That’s a bit over half a cow, or about one and a half pigs, or somewhere north of a hundred chickens. That’s the butcher’s bill, directly attributable to the average American. So to take your own words - yes, if you stop eating meat, exactly one pig will not be killed every year. Around one and half, actually.
Well, it’s what they believe. What exactly is the problem there? I have never been called a murderer. There just aren’t that many vegans around. I don’t know in what kind of circles this would be a common occurrence.
Well, it’s what they believe
I’m sorry but this is a dogshit justification in nearly every situation
At first, I was confused. Isn’t the fact that you believe something the only justification for saying something? I mean, otherwise you’d be lying. But you’re saying you disagree with the belief in the first place, right?
I’m saying that the idea that something is justified because it is believed makes no sense. Apologies for being unclear.
Ok, I understand. You don’t like them because of their beliefs.
Animals massively outnumber us. It’s not our fault they are cowards and can’t organize a rebellion properly.
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Everyone who keeps posting this ignores that there has been vegan cat food for years, supplemented with necessary vitamins etc and backed up with scientific research. They didn’t make it up out of thin air as you seem to be implying. Sceptism or disagreement is fine. Painting the other side as lunatics is not.
Vegan cat food being safe isn’t exactly an uncontested thing in the scientific/medical community.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=vegan foods for cats
Everything from it being very hard to balance the nutrients in these foods, in a production sense, to veterinary science not being complete on what is needed for proper diet. The foods available aren’t great, and making it yourself is generally worse. Most of the reports of the animals being perfectly fine, when allowed to be closely monitored by experts, show that, while they appear fine, they likely to suffer long term consequences to their health, and often die of them. however it takes a long time, so regardless of the average lifespan decrease, which is abstract, and hard for a general pet owner to quantify, since the cats lived for years, people assumed it was fine. There is also a lot of mis/disinformation from the pro side on the actual QOL of the animals, both because they aren’t experts to know, and, to a lesser extent, data gets fudged to support their goals. This is not to say that the same can’t be said of the con side.
Sure, and good information for the discussion. This was my point: everyone was acting like vegans are actively delusional in feeding cats vegan food. While there are very much valid criticisms you can have, most people are not engaging with the facts, or with even a modicum of respect. Thank you for not being a part of that.
Oh yeah, for every vegan that just beats everyone around them, over the head, with their veganism, there are 100, or more, people who go out of their way to insult, and offend, vegans. I have seen far more people do things like try to slip animal products in food, secretly, to make vegans eat it, go out of their way to over indulge in meat because there is a vegan there, and just talk shit, than any vegan proselytizing.
Ultimately I just think that, as it currently stands, allowing animals to have meat, if they are natural carnivores, is better than alternatives. When they get good enough, sure, move on with it.
I do think veganism has had their representation taken over by the loudest, and most obnoxious, elements, but that can be said about nearly every lifestyle, or belief system. This, to a lesser extent, and other things, to a greater extent, is why I hope being able to synthetically produce animal products, will come to fruition. I honestly do not believe most of society can be convinced to be vegan. If the end of humanity isn’t a convincing argument… well I don’t know what is.
But, this is just my opinion.
why are you copy pasting the same comment
Because it fit both comments, so might as well save the work
I don’t hate vegans in general. I hate it when they prostelytize at me and try to shame me into being vegan. And this it the problem many people have. There is a vocal minority of vegans that will attack others for not sharing their lifestyle (I’m looking at you, PETA). I have no interest in giving up meat. I will pick more sustanable meat sources sure, but i will not be attacked for my choices.
Don’t come after me, I won’t come after you. I likely will even try to bring a vegan option to a pot luck for you.
I mean, that’s kind of saying you’re going to delibrately drive a Hummer because it ‘fits your lifestyle’, and then getting annoyed when people point out it’s incredibly wasteful and dangerous. There’s a certain point where you have to acknowledge reality, yah?
Reality is you are not going to convince the entire world to turn to a vegan lifestyle. Period. And if you attack people for not wanting to change, you are going to make them resist that change more.
We don’t have the economics for everyone to suddenly become vegan - it’s fucking expensive. We also don’t have the nutritional education for everyone to suddenly become vegan. People have to be willing to research that in order to not malnourish themselves. And most people are simply too lazy to do that.
Not to mention the massive amounts of food deserts in the country that would make finding vegan options for a fully vegan diet impossible.
Asking everyone in the world to live off vegetables and supplements is insane. We are not there as a society yet. And I have no intention of driving a hummer. It’s too damn expensive.
Just like eating a proper vegan diet is if you’re actually trying to meet all your nutrients.
Again, if you view reality - in this case, that vegan diets are better for the environment and for animal welfare - as an ‘attack’… well I really don’t know what to tell you. It really seems like something you need to handle on your own? Don’t get mad at people for pointing out that the sky is blue and the grass is green.
I will take issue with the idea that vegan diets are more expensive. This is largely an artifact of Americans thinking you need to eat the overpriced ‘fake meat’ - really, fake beef, as they never seem to include mock duck. You don’t. It’s not even slightly necessary. As someone who has been vegetarian for years, I always roll my eyes a little bit when people talk about it.
I can make chili out of a few cans of beans, some onion and bell pepper, and chili powder. Or tacos from black beans, roasted sweet potatoes, and pico de gallo. Or stir fry with mock duck from a can and frozen vegetables. Or curry with tofu and curry powder. Or a huge number of other things that are all very cheap.
As for supplements…B12. A bottle of 100 pills is about 5 bucks. That’s it.
To address your point about inavailablity…I have to laugh. Historically, meat has always been harder to obtain. A lot of vegan foods are vegan simply because people weren’t able to get meat. If you’re talking about prepared food like fast food, etc - sure, a lot of places don’t even bother to have vegan options. But again, if you’re trying to live off of takeout, you’re really shooting yourself in the foot as far as cost goes. Just make some chili with cornbread and chill.
It’s because the cat food thing is such a stupid hill to die on. Like if you wanted to engineer a viral marketing campaign to make vegans look dumb, you could not have done a better job.
I believe you, it was a meat industry bot campaign. Thank you for opening my eyes.
I would actually believe it if those vegan users dgaf about being vegan and are just trolls using a controversial topic.
Yeah I’m not a vegan but I’m adjacent and I’ve literally never heard of anyone doing that outside of a Futurama joke.
There is a burgeoning industry of vegan pet food for cats and dogs. Though the science behind it is far from clear
Iirc all the recent hate is focused on vegans who think obligate carnivores can be turned vegan.
Don’t abuse your pets or just maybe don’t have pets at all.
Everyone who keeps posting this ignores that there has been vegan cat food for years, supplemented with necessary vitamins etc and backed up with scientific research. They didn’t make it up out of thin air as you seem to be implying. Sceptism or disagreement is fine. Painting the other side as lunatics is not.
Pssh everyone knows the only correct diet for a cat is their natural one: giant ocean predators (salmon and tuna) and corn-fed livestock. All mixed up with preservatives and taurine and ash, just like their mawmaw cats used to make!
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I’m sure you feed your cat nothing but rodents.
And yah, turns out if you’re an asshole people don’t want to spend time with you. Big surprise, I’m sure.
I remember when this was just a joke on Futurama. Why does life imitate art in the dumbest way possible‽
Obligate Carnivore is a great band name.
What vegan thinks you can turn a cat vegan? That’s like thinking you can turn a cat hegelian or something.
it’s possible we’re facing a future in which meat is not sustainable and we won’t want to spare any for cats, it’s something worth studying
Sounds like something a vegan would say 🤔
Isn’t it funny how meatheads act like they pretend vegans act all the time?
Sounds like something a meathead would say 🤔
Ha , gottem
I remember the days when the fediverse was such a cool and interesting idea only to watch it become a “woaw vegans dumb amirite” circlejerk
On my instance a guy opened a community where he posted cooking recipes he liked. There was a vegan that complained that they contained meat. The vegan got a lot of deserved flak for that. Even from other vegans.
Wow ur so rite vegans are dumb
No the problem is that it’s enough if there is one asshat around giving everyone a bad name. Instead of contributing complaints was the only thing added.
You’re not going to convince convert anyone by attacking them. And now several people had a bad experience and may make these jokes, because for them it’s not a joke, but it is real. Show the alternative that it’s good and easy. Everything else is already a lost battle.
Dumb vegans amirite
Every platform needs a terrible meme that never goes away. Reddit picked a shoebox full of semen, we picked cat starvation.
guys I’m new to Lemmy and all I see are references to some began shit and beans. What the fuck was happening?
Vegans really like beans and Lemmy also really likes beans. But not in a began way so they started fighting. There were some riots and a lot of beans were murdered. It was sad.
We disagree on why beans are great
Cheap hearty food. Beans are wonderful. Affordable. Shelf stable. Full of protein. And tasty.
Some vegans got into a fight over cat food. Whether or not you agree that cats can be fed with vegan alternatives, it’s still just cat food.
A bunch of vegans said they feed their pets only vegan food, whilst they are carnivores. Mod stopped the conv to prevent animal abuse.
Some Vegans got angry.
I agree with mods, last thing we need here are echo chambers for dangerous information
The beanposting is unrelated to the vegan drama, Lemmy just really likes beans. It was one of our first home-grown memes
And that “no poop challenge” that was everywhere on lemmy about a year ago. Not sure whether that was a lemmy thing or wider, as I don’t use anything besides lemmy.
I’m glad a local culture is growing here naturally, but I didn’t expect it to be beans, jeans and no poop
Well the first two make sense because they rhyme
But the no-poop thing was from some person who absolutely refused to explain why they needed to internally retain their deceased over a long weekend.
Yeah. I was gonna make some vegan bean soup tomorrow but now I’ve decided to add bacon.
I’ve been here the whole time and I don’t know what the fuck is going on nor have I seen much of it. Now people complaining about it happening? Oh yeah, I’ve seen heaps of that.
Stop insisting people have the right to torture animals.
Edit: Seems lemmy is worse at context than reddit ever was.
Feeding cats and other obligate carnivores a vegan diet is torture the same way feeding humans a sawdust only diet would be.
I’m…not?
Defends vegans. Immediately gets shit on by militant vegans.
That’s why people shit on them so much by the way. They’re incapable of simply not.
Meanwhile, the silent majority of vegans:
man IDK, i know a lot of vegans and none of them are silent about it. they’re all deeply passionate people and that’s not necessarily bad, but they’re definitely not quiet.
I actually figured they were against the vegan cat food thing, since the whole debate started due to cats being obligate carnivores and vegans killing them by refusing to feed them meat.
idk what you’re on about, they literally defended vegans.
By forcing vegan diets on cats?
I thought they were leaving and going to one of the tankie instances now that their banning of anyone who questions their misinformation to preserve the pure thought of their echo bunker has been exposed.
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you can leave
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You sure complain a lot for someone “having fun”.
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Thanks for the chuckle
Lololol something something dog food
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