ITT: we do the white moderate thing MLK talked about where we set a timetable for someone’s rights. I’m sure one day it’ll be politically convenient to support trans people, y’all just hang in there.
ITT: a bunch of leftists destroying the most progressive party because it failed their purity test by not talking about something that anyone with a bit of logic would know would lose them votes even if it’s known they’re in favor of it.
The ‘most progressive party’?? By what measure? Because they aren’t as openly fascist as the Republicans? Kamala has sworn to appoint at least one Republican, to be tough on crime, increase the strength of the military, be as or more anti-immigration than Trump, has shown no interest in healthcare reform, and refused to even consider ceasing the arming of genocidaires. What does it mean to be progressive to you?
That’s not the message I got at all. The message I got is that the Dems are going to continue what they did with Biden – bringing manufacturing home so we get good jobs, take on the moneyed interests in housing so we have more housing and hopefully cheaper housing, get student loan programs in place that get the wealth extraction out and make it so that you can get college educated without a debt hanging over you for the rest of your life. And that the Dems stand against hatred of all kinds, including anti-minority hatred, anti-gay hatred, anti-trans hatred, and frankly, all other hatred.
Harris is going to appoint a single Republican to her administration? So what? Her administration is going to have 25 other people she’s NOT said will be Republican, not to mention the various appointed positions that aren’t the top 26 positions of the Cabinet. And maybe the Republican is in one of those lower positions, not on the cabinet. I’m willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, because I know there will be 26 not-just-Republicans-but-Qooqs-who-think-I-both-eat-and-fuck-babies if Trump wins.
America isn’t very Progressive, so Dems not being progressive enough doesn’t surprise me. I think we got some serious progressive ideas pushed the last admin, though. And if you want non-Progressive, well, look no further than the Republicans. Republicanism is where Progressive ideas go to die, and if Trump wins in November, I guarantee you you’ll watch as your ideas are strangled in the crib.
You’ve got two parties that can be elected in the US, which one is the most progressive?
‘Destroying’ the ‘most progressive’ party?
In what way is anyone destroying the democratic party, and in what way are the democrats making progress?
In the words of James Baldwin… https://youtu.be/UBFDdTIYZ6Q
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The mainstream talking point of Democrats turned to “we need to play it safe and win all the Republican votes”.
They believe only centrist moderate voters can be scared away. And claim progressives are always guaranteed to vote Democrat. Everything hangs on that assumption.
It’s a pretty good assumption. You’d have to be a complete shit popsicle to vote for someone worse on all the issues you care about, because the party that gives any fucks whatsoever isn’t doing enough.
It’s just a numbers game. There are far more waffling centrists and drooling fence-sitters in this country that there are people who are trans, and the latter are already likely to vote D regardless. It will always be this way: a campaign is always going to spend more resources on the larger and less sure voting bloc.
The problem is so much bigger than who said what at what convention. The Democratic party needs to actually do something other than pay lip service to the trans population. Unfortunately trans people are less than 1% of voters. Even if all of their friends and family were allies, that’s still not enough votes to matter.
The average cis democrat would be perfectly happy with Not-Trump. No one wants trans people to die (at least hopefully), but if it was supporting trans rights or beating Trump? His evangelical base is getting tired of his shit. But if the scary brown lady started talking about transgenders that might be enough to bring them back into the fold.
Meanwhile in most red states the trans population will be ground into a fine paste regardless of who lives in the white house. Unless dems and pull a hat trick and take the presidency, house, and senate (next to impossible this year) that won’t change.
It kills me to write, but not talking about trans rights makes sense. That is not a problem within the power of POTUS to solve. A federal law or constitutional amendment is going to be the only way to protect trans rights, abortion access, and gay or interracial marriage. Plus, more cynically, she’s got the trans vote regardless, so best case she just says some words. Worst case she loses the paper thin margin because the jesus freaks who were going to stay home have a reason to vote.
“Should Have” in what sense? Like as a moral matter or to get elected? They’re very different things.
Like as a moral matter or to get elected? They’re very different things.
Are they?
If a politician has certain morals but they set them aside to get elected, do they still hold those morals?
If a politician makes up morals they don’t have to get elected, did they ever truly hold those morals?
The answer to both is a resounding NO.
If you abandon/adopt morals to get elected, you have no morals, you have self interests.
Whatever distinction you’re trying to make, or why, is a you issue, there is no way to twist this in to it being ok.
Is not mentioning trans rights during an election speech the same thing as being against trans rights?
Nope. They are very different things. I’m all for trans rights, but I don’t bring it up in every conversation I have about politics. That’s not setting aside my morals or abandoning them.
Hypothetically, what if talking about trans rights turned off more voters than it brought in? What if that led to trump getting elected? Would it have been better to not mention it in the first place, or was the morality of mentioning it more important than trying to get elected during an election speech?
They didn’t mention trans rights because they didn’t want to alienate the Republicans that they’re courting. They would rather shit on progressives than lose a conservative vote.
It’s not only Republicans voters that plan to vote for the Democrats that would be alienated by a “woke” candidate, for some it would be enough to just not go out and vote and I’m willing to bet that more people would do that than the number of people that would be convinced to vote by raising the issue.
Why do you think that it’s shitting on progressives? Can someone not mention during a speech but still work to pass legislation in support of trans rights when they have the power to do so, after an election where they need votes that may be turned off by the issue? Nobody came out against trans rights. An omission on the topic isn’t anti trans.
If not talking about an issue now may mean more voters so that real change may happen, even if that means courting republicans, why is that a bad thing?
It’s possible to support something without talking about it one time.
They have zero interest in protecting trans rights.
Based on what? There is zero basis in your claim.
Based on Republicans passing over 500 anti-trans bills the last several years and Democrats haven’t done shit except talk about it. Democrat version of protecting their rights is telling them they’re free to use whatever restroom they want, while ignoring that they don’t have access to affordable Health Care or housing and may live in abject poverty while using that preferred restroom.
Is not mentioning trans rights during an election speech the same thing as being against trans rights?
In this climate, when we are under direct and active attack? Fucking yes.
I’m all for trans rights, but I don’t bring it up in every conversation I have about politics.
Gotta love the overinflated ego, but you aren’t trying to win an election to run a fucking country, your conversations aren’t relevant.
Hypothetically, what if talking about trans rights turned off more voters than it brought in? What if that led to trump getting elected? Would it have been better to not mention it in the first place, or was the morality of mentioning it more important than trying to get elected during an election speech?
If you prioritise winning over bigots over your morals, and are willing to further compromise the safety of marginalised people for the sake of furthering your career - you are just as much of a bigot, and again - have no moral, only self interests.
Claiming that supporting trans rights will get trump elected is flat out manipulative bigotry, and makes you a liar, because you’re not all for trans rights, you’re only for trans rights when it’s convenient for you.
You are being the “white moderate” that causes more harm than the outright bigot does, because you pretend to support the cause, but are happy to tell others to wait for their liberation until it’s more convenient for you.
Do you know what the word hypothetical means? While you’re searching for that, loik up what a false equivalence is as well, so that maybe you can stop using them.
It’s possible for a person to not mention something during a speech and still fight for that cause. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.
I’m sorry, but when there is so much at stake we have to lie. politicians have always lied. left and right. it’s in their nature. they can’t help it. if it’s politically expedient to lie, even by omission, so the enemy doesn’t use it against you and chips away at that majority, then I’m totally comfortable with that. of course, I’d much prefer that it was illegal for politicians to lie, like they are trialing in Wales, then we’d have a very different calibre of politics. I’m all for that. bring on enforced honesty in politics. but until that’s established and the enemy, and let me make this very clear, the US Nazis are very much the enemy, we have to temper our political persona a bit. once we win then we show how inclusive and caring we are. but if saying something what could be used in an attack against our valiant cause, it’s ok to hide it. for now. look at Walz, he’s an ally to the cause and we’re not hiding him. he’s in full view, heart on his sleeve, and from what I can tell, he’s a really good man. those are the qualities we need to show off. we’re not hiding those morals, we’re just not shouting loudly about some of the more progressive values we hold, so they can’t be twisted and used against us. we need to win this election. fairly and absolutely convincingly. and I’m talking as a Kiwi, a citizen of Earth, watching on in horror what could be coming and the pivot in geopolitical power that would inevitably occur. your election has way more reach than just your shores. the good guys need to win and kick the US Nazis so hard in the nuts they remember loosing forever. anyway. thanks for listening
The democrats didn’t leave fighting for trans rights out because they fear being attacked (literally every word they say will get twisted and attacked), but because they don’t intend to fight for them, and saying they do, would be the lie.
The fact that you fuckers are so willing to take it the other way and support the idea of erasing one of the main groups being targeted right now in order to win over some bigots (despite, in your own warped minds, them really truly supporting trans rights, promise!) is honestly disgusting.
“Win over bigots to beat the bigot!”
How the fuck do you think that ends for trans people?
They’ve never campaigned on trans rights, how do those rights compare in Democrats’ States vs Republican ones?
Would you rather the bigots vote for Trump?
Oh my god. This account finds something to nitpick at the Dems and posts every five minutes. Notice how they barely - if ever - post anything critical of Republicans?
Every. Five. Minutes.
You want a seat ta the table? Learn how politics works. Otherwise, I don’t know, go back to purity testing the Dems every five minutes. See where that gets you.
Gurl… I don’t oppose Democrats because I’m on the same side as Republicans. I oppose Democrats because they’re on the same side as Republicans.
Ah that’s right. When we’re tired of nitpicking and purity testing we can always fall back on the “both sides” argument. It’s so transparent at this point.
Aren’t you ignoring the article and engaging in an ad hominem attack on OP? Block them if it bothers you.
As a trans woman trapped in a red state, I would feel a lot safer if the dems would actually take a concrete position of whether I can continue existing. It might actually be important enough that I stay home in November, because so far Biden has done almost nothing (some easily undone executive actions and guidelines) and Kamala isn’t talking about it at all (at least more than empty validation and hug boxing)
The dems are not just as bad as the right, but they’re bad enough on some key issues (trans rights, the supreme court, and the US backed genocide of Palestine) blue no matter who is just ignorant and naive.
I understand this issue is a matter of personal safety for you… but hopefully you can understand why the Biden administration “has done almost nothing”. The way the US government is set up has several branches, where the Presidency under the Executive Branch is just one of them, for most issues he’s done what can be expected of a typical President and more.
The Legislative Branch has been taken over by the Republican House Circus. That’s where normally laws are supposed to be written. The Judicial Branch Supreme Court’s faults are with Roberts, Trump’s appointees, and ultra-corrupt Thomas. They are interpreting the Constitution and the rules Congress wrote in whatever way fits their oligarch friends’ needs. That’s 2 out of 3 government branches, that aren’t Blue, if they were, Biden would have been able to do a hell of a lot more.
The only thing imo Biden has no good excuse for, is the series of blank cheques he’s been giving Israel to commit genocide. If that’s your make-or-break, I’m sorry, you have no good options. Your best bet may be to hold your nose.
That’s actually the point drunk me was trying to make last night. The only thing being talked about in the media is the presidency but we are so truly screwed because the president can’t do anything about it, really. They can issue some executive orders and set policy. Even if Kamala gave a speech on just trans rights, there is nothing she can actually do unless the other two branches have been also claimed by the dems and even then good luck when texas passes a law that gets sued to the supreme court and overturns gay marriage.
There is nothing wrong pointing out failings with the Dems. From what I’ve seen, only blue states are fighting to preserve trans rights. Tim Waltz has been very vocal about keeping government out of the doctors office. You seem hyper focused on the office of the presidency. The reality is the president can only do so much. We need down ballot votes to give them the power to do what needs to be done. We need to bring the fight to all levels and stop typer-focusing on the presidency. We need to build coalitions. We need to keep a seat at the table - not disengage.
The issue is this account spams the same shit non-stop day in and out. Right now I don’t believe in blocking people -yet. I have mixed feelings about blocking. The reason I’m attracted to these platforms is because I want to hear different points of view.
The only people ever afforded a seat at the table are the moneyed class. And Democrats do need to be put under a microscope because they’re the ones that pretend to be allies to the marginalized, While they Co opt our languages to use against us when we decide to not vote for them because they stabbed us in the back. Republicans wear their racism and their bigotry on their shoulders for all to see. For Democrats, it’s covert.
Sure. Except the policies they pass represent their electorate and are diametrically opposed to Republicans.
Listen, I’m for all the same things everyone on this platform wants. The issue is our generation is terminally online but doesn’t bother to vote. If you want to make changes disengaging from the political system altogether is not the answer. Building coalitions and doing the hard work is. But that takes work and is not exciting, so it’s just easier for accounts like @return2ozma@lemmy.world to keep spamming non-stop about how “both parties are equal” and “corpo overlords”. It’s just more fun, isn’t it?
Many of those that chose not to vote are disenfranchised voters that do not feel represented in government, and rightfully so. Many of our lives do not fundamentally change for the better regardless which shade of fascism runs the government.
Liberals talk about building coalitions, which translates to ‘do it our way otherwise you want the other team to win.’ They want zero input from the marginalized groups they help keep marginalized, they do not listen to our needs.
Claiming that you want all the same things other people want is disingenuous when you demand we support the people fighting those changes.
Gurl I’m still saying vote for Kamala but be aware their shortcomings. Fuck Trump and the GOP.
Sorry. I just don’t buy it.
If you really want to enact change get politically active at the local level and build up. Get a seat at the table. Build coalitions. Run for local elections. Support your city council / school policy. Talk about what you can do.
Spamming incessantly about how bad the Dems are betrays a total lack of understanding who the main electoral base is (outside the internet) and how legislation is passed. This has been pointed out to you multiple times. You know all this. You know what you’re doing. We see it.
I don’t buy it.
The working class will NEVER have a seat at their table, only promises and illusions that someday we will so they can stay in power.
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Bro. That’s great but you realize you could be doxxing yourself? I wouldnt post information like that. I don’t agree with your stance politically but I don’t want anything to happen to you either.
Yeah you’re right. I mean people know I live in the LA area already but I’ll delete it anyways.
(The comment was a socialist/far left bookstore)
“they need to be put under a microscope”
You know what they say, there’s no one like someone on the left to make sure the most progressive party lose votes.
There’s so much stuff politicians won’t talk about on the campaign trail because they’re wedge issues and because their records already show they’re in favor/against those things, it’s better to shut up than to alienate a lot of voters to please few voters. Spoiler alert, not all Democrats voters care about trans rights and more of them will jump ship if they believe Harris is woke than will jump in the ship if she starts talking about trans rights during the campaign because the majority of people who support trans rights already understand that the Democrats support their rights even if they don’t make it a campaign issue.
Those of us on the left do not vote for Democrats because we are NOT Democrats.
it’s better to shut up than to alienate a lot of voters
If they won’t stand up and do what’s right in the face of opposition they are not worthy of being elected. Mentioning the marginalized when it’s politically convenient is self serving, and not worthy of being elected.
Calling Democrats the “most progressive party” is like calling a carpet bombing the “most peaceful action” because the alternative is a thermonuclear bomb.
Of the two options that can be elected in the USA, which is the most progressive?
If you go by their track records, neither. One is verbally less regressive, sometimes, but only in election years.
That’s a pretty ridiculous answer… One party tried to increase healthcare access the other destroys whatever progress the other party made. One party is in favor of science, the other chooses a president that suggests injecting bleach to get rid of diseases. One party tries to create digital programs, the other blocks any attempts at it…
One party is fully owned by the ultra-wealthy and will not do anything to even slightly weaken the oppression of the 99%, the other party is fully owned by the ultra-wealthy and will not do anything to even slightly weaken the oppression of the 99% and also lies about it.
The trans community and it’s supporters know they’re being attacked by the right and needs to vote Dem, so they’ve got that locked in. What political advantage is there in making it a campaign issue for the Dems when the GOP has done all the work already?
Because Dems in power in the US have a track record of using trans rights as political bargaining chips. They have done it many times. The reality is that some democrats care about the human and civil rights of trans people, and some don’t. I don’t trust them with trans rights at all.
That said, for the convention dems probably saw the polling that shows that people are sick of hearing about trans issues, and decided to avoid it.
Yeah, that’s a lie.
We already knew that their support was transactional, conditional. Spineless cowards.
Not mentioning it during the campaign doesn’t mean not supporting it when adopting policies.
How many US Politicians adopted trans supportive policies vs how many of them actually campaigned on it?
Mhm. Let’s make the moral choice, have Republicans make more noise on the issue and turn away voters just like on Gaza, climate change, immigration, wealth inequality to ultimately help Republicans strip away protections on each.
To have Harris be the slippery target is strategic, because Republicans know how to pounce on an issue when they think they see one. They’ve already done it dozens of times on complete non-issues due to them having lack of real rebuttals against the Democratic party.
I’ll put it bluntly: to have trans-inclusivity become the norm, we have to pitch the inclusivity part before we explain the trans part.
So you think the way to counter the Republicans using fascist tactics to demonize trans people is to not support trans people. Because if we support trans people, it will only make more people side with Republicans and attack trans people.
Fuck that. Fuck that every conceivable way.
Why do you assume that not mentioning trans rights in speeches = not supporting trans rights?
The point is that in order to win elections you campaign on things that your opponent can’t use to alienate some of your base. I’m going to be blunt here but not all Democrats are progressive enough to see trans right as something important and some of them don’t want a “woke” president (as the term “woke” was appropriated by the right as being a bad thing and supporting trans rights is woke) so mentioning them directly during the campaign would make more people not vote/switch back to voting for the Republicans than it will make trans people come out and vote because trans people already know they only have one party that supports their right to exist, even if it’s not being campaigned on.
So quickly do the liberals toss away their tokens.
So quickly do leftist destroy their own to make way for the right
I’m not destroying anything. I’m being critical of these kinds of decisions this campaign is making.
Centrists can’t abide the slightest criticism of their rightward slide.
No, I am saying that the Dems’ messaging is being kept broad in terms of inclusivity, because then it makes Republicans singling out transgender people or other minorities to hate on them look extra weird. It also brings the issue of transgenderism to voters for whom this is a foreign concept, in a way they can better understand.
Many of these voters hate trans people not because they understand the issue, but because conservative organizations have told them to constantly for years so it’s made into a trigger word. The Harris campaign is showing these voters a way out from the cycle of hate, to put these divisions away, and accept trans people for the human beings they are, just like all of us, without needing to put them on a spotlight front and centre. Harris needs a large amount of these uninformed voters to support her too if she wants any hope of enacting a progressive, LGBTQ+ inclusive agenda during her term.
Love how all the pro-trans rights people are being downvoted in this thread. You ok, Lemmy?
We’re not allowed to point out issues apparently.
Instead of Ignoring Trans Rights at DNC, Dems Should’ve
Vowed to Protect ThemliedFTFY
You know how they say “when people tell you who they are - listen”?
Whatever this is, it’s the opposite of that.
The truth being hard to hear makes it all the more important to. Flat out ignoring it is bad enough, trying to put words and intentions where they don’t exist, is dangerous.
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