The issue is much, much larger than what Israel is doing to Gaza.
If you fail to vote for Harris, you allow Trump to win.
If Trump wins:
- He will encourage Israel to finish the genocide more quickly.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-biden-israel-pr-hugh-hewitt-21faee332d95fec99652c112fbdcd35d
- He will take Israel’s policy of illegally invading Lebanon as a “security zone” and apply it to Mexico:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_Southern_Lebanon
- He will set up internment camps in the United States for immigrants and others classed as “undesirable”:
- He will purge the government of any and all opposition:
- He wants to arrest journalists:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/06/politics/kash-patel-trump-administration/index.html
To be clear here, if Harris does not win, Trump will. Those are your two choices. You can choose to vote for Harris or you court disaster. There is no viable 3rd choice.
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Harris is not pro-Genocide. Trump is.
“Let me be very clear: I am unequivocal and unwavering in my commitment to Israel’s defense and its ability to defend itself, and that’s not going to change,”
vs.
“They have to get it done. Get it over with and get it over with fast because we have to – you have to get back to normalcy and peace.”
One of those two people is going to be the next President.
Harris believes, rightly, that Israel has the right to defend itself the same as any other country.
The problem is, they haven’t actually been engaging in defense for some time now. That’s the fault with Israel and Bibi, not Harris.
Trump believes Gaza needs to be exterminated fast and would bring the worst Israeli policies here.
Harris is just as much pro genocide as Trump is. Out of one side of their mouth, they talk ceasefire, as they have just completed their 500th military weapons drop to Israel. That’s why Democrats cannot be trusted. We have listened to what they said and then watched what they do.
Definitely not.
Absolutely, actions speak louder than words, and both parties have shown their true colors by fueling conflicts while pretending to advocate for peace.
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It’s not genocide denial. Historically, Israel has been attacked from all sides and the position of the US government, since Israel’s creation, is that they have the right to exist and the right to defend themselves.
The problem is, under the Likud party, in Gaza and other territory, Israel moved from defense to offense. We supply them in good faith and they use those supplies in bad faith.
That is NOT the same thing as “ZOMG! You support genocide!”
If Iran decides to legit attack Israel, they will, and should, defend themselves with our weapons.
The problem is that’s not what they are using them for, and that’s on THEM. Not Harris.
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Every soverign nation has the right to self defense. Where Israel is going astray is the the same way the US went astray following 9/11… attacking and killing the wrong people and committing war crimes.
If Israel was ONLY targeting Hamas, nobody would have a problem with that.
The problem is the people in power in Israel see the Hamas takeover in 2007 as “Well, they’re all Hamas.”
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“I care about Palestinians so much that I’m willing to sacrifice their future well being for my poorly formed but intractable political ideals.”
Ok.
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K.
You will however allow the most pro genocide voter to decide the election for you.
Good for you.
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No I don’t. I recognize reality and refuse to allow the most genocidal candidate to win.
How about you? Do you just accuse people on the internet of stupid shit, desperate to make enemies…
Or do you try to build a coalition to prevent the most genocidal candidate from winning?
Sounds like you just talk shit…
Do you deny Trump is worse, and has absolutely zero scruples about Israel obliterating Gaza?
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200+ comments, account is less than a week old. Lol
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The reality where we aren’t pro fucking genocide we just aren’t pro “throw our democracy away because we aren’t able to stop them from funding Isreal.”
There is no reality where we get to have our cake and eat it too. We either get pro military industrial complex, or pro military industrial complex and the upending of our country.
Not much of a choice. There is no reality where in the handful of months we have left we are somehow able to get everyone to go 3rd party… It absolutely fucking sucks but that’s why we hate money in politics and corporate media so much.
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We’re told over and over that there’s no other choice, that we must accept the status quo or risk everything. But by clinging to the same corrupt system, we ensure that nothing changes.
The real power comes from breaking free of this false dichotomy and demanding a better future.
We won’t get there by continuing to prop up the same broken system. If we don’t start challenging it now, when will we ever?
I definitely agree, and there needs to be a time for this (my best thought is after ranked choice voting) but my point was more about right now.
With just a few months left and with the media ecosystem we have there’s like a 0.000001% chance we get enough people to vote green or whatever 3rd party.
but my point was more about right now.
And my point is that it’s always about right now.
Every election, we’re told the same old story: “Yes, things need to change, but not this time. This election is just too important. Look at what’s on the line!” But I’ve seen this game played out time and again. I’ve been casting my vote since 1988, and every single time, both parties sing the same tune: “Change is needed, but not today, not this time. Not this election.”
I respect your right to vote for whoever you believe in, but for me, I’m done with this duopoly that’s been squeezing the life out of real progress.
I’m done with being bullied into maintaining the status quo. I won’t cast my vote out of fear or because someone says it’s the only way to win.
I’m voting for the party that truly reflects my values, the party that dares to challenge this system, no matter the odds.
If we want to see real change, we have to start with ourselves.
I’m proudly voting third party this year, not because it’s easy, but because it’s necessary.
I’m being the change I want to see. If you believe in Harris, by all means, cast your vote. But as for me, I won’t. My vote is for a future that matches my beliefs, not the fear-driven present that keeps us shackled to a broken system.
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There is no viable 3rd choice.
I’m choosing 3rd party anyway. Saying there’s no viable third choice is just a way to keep the broken system intact.
The only reason a third choice isn’t viable is because we’ve been conditioned to believe it can’t be, and that’s exactly what the duopoly wants us to think.
Real change happens when we stop accepting the status quo and start supporting alternatives that challenge the power structure.
Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. If the forces of democracy take decisive, terroristic action against the reaction from the very beginning, the reactionary influence in the election will already have been destroyed.
Karl Marx 1850
Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body.
YES!!!
That is fucking beautiful. And it’s incredible to see that what was true in 1850 is still just as true today. Thank you for that! Love it.
I’m gonna have to start using parts of that quote in some of my replies to the Lemmy bullies and people who are spreading discontent under the guise of just helping out their party, but who are really just protecting their capitalistic advantages under a corrupt duopoly.
Many on Lemmy seem to not don’t want change or are they are afraid to speak up for it. Because of Republican AND Democrat bullies.
W E B DeBois in 1956
In 1956, I shall not go to the polls. I have not registered. I believe that democracy has so far disappeared in the United States that no “two evils” exist. There is but one evil party with two names, and it will be elected despite all I can do or say. There is no third party. On the Presidential ballot in a few states (seventeen in 1952), a “Socialist” Party will appear. Few will hear its appeal because it will have almost no opportunity to take part in the campaign and explain its platform. If a voter organizes or advocates a real third-party movement, he may be accused of seeking to overthrow this government by “force and violence.” Anything he advocates by way of significant reform will be called “Communist” and will of necessity be Communist in the sense that it must advocate such things as government ownership of the means of production; government in business; the limitation of private profit; social medicine, government housing and federal aid to education; the total abolition of race bias; and the welfare state. These things are on every Communist program; these things are the aim of socialism. Any American who advocates them today, no matter how sincerely, stands in danger of losing his job, surrendering his social status and perhaps landing in jail. The witnesses against him may be liars or insane or criminals. These witnesses need give no proof for their charges and may not even be known or appear in person. They may be in the pay of the United States Government. A.D.A.'s and “Liberals” are not third parties; they seek to act as tails to kites. But since the kites are self-propelled and radar-controlled, tails are quite superfluous and rather silly.
They use the same tactics for decades and liberals fall for them every single time
Wow, that’s a fantastic read! I might have to borrow some of those words to fuel my fight against the capitalist barrage I face daily on here, just because I refuse to support the duopoly that so many are clinging to.
I’m pretty sure Marx lived in a country with a parliamentary system. Not a two-party, first past the post system.
If you don’t understand what the difference is with regards to election outcomes, then I don’t know what to tell you.
It’s absurd to pretend that the situation he’s referring to is anything close to what’s happening now.
It’s true that Marx lived in a different political system, but the soul of his critique goes beyond the specifics of electoral structures.
Marx’s analysis of class struggle and the concentration of power and wealth in the hands of a few is pretty much as relevant today as it was back then, regardless of whether we’re talking about a parliamentary system or a two-party, first-past-the-post system.
Exploitation of the working class and the manipulation of political systems to serve the interests of the ruling class is still very very much present in our current system.
To dismiss Marx’s ideas because the electoral mechanics are different misses the bigger point.
No matter the system, those in power will often rig it to maintain their dominance and suppress genuine alternatives that threaten the status quo.
I’m not dismissing his ideas, I’m just saying that it’s not a 1:1 comparison
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No, not throwing it away at all. I’m voting for who I want to.
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Trump wants to nuke Gaza, pave over the remains and build one of his shitty hotels there. He would also deport Muslims and send those who don’t leave to internment camps. Explain to me how both sides are the same.
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Trump’s vile ideas are monstrous, no doubt, but let’s not pretend the Democrats are clean when they continue to fund and support military actions that devastate lives in Gaza and beyond.
Both sides perpetuate violence and oppression in their own ways—whether it’s through blatant aggression or complicit support.
The difference lies in the packaging, not the substance.
It’s my opinion that it really is the same system, two faces, both indifferent to the real suffering they cause.
You disagree, and I respect your right to do that. As I’m sure you respect mine.
Who says the Dems are clean? Most leftists I know openly acknowledge she’s so far from perfect but they’d still take her over Trump.
Are you really telling me Trump and Harris are the exact same? Like give me a break. Why is Harris 3x more popular than Trump among Muslim voters?
Who says the Dems are clean?
Not me.
Are you really telling me Trump and Harris are the exact same?
Both sides perpetuate violence and oppression in their own ways—whether it’s through blatant aggression or complicit support.
Why is Harris 3x more popular than Trump among Muslim voters?
Everyone has their own opinions. I support and respect people’s right to have a different opinion than me. Just as you respect and support my right to my own opinions. Yes?
Harris and Stein tied at 29%, with 11% of the cohort’s support going to Donald Trump
She’s tied…for first place among Muslim voters. And Trump is getting almost 2/3rds less.
MSN.com - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for MSN.com:
MBFC: Left-Center - Credibility: High - Factual Reporting: High - United States of America
Wikipedia about this sourceSearch topics on Ground.News
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Dear Muslims, here let me just give you a gun pointing straight back to you. Might as well just commit self suicide with this “revenge” vote you are throwing away.
Eh, Trump or Harris, in the end of the day it will be the same. Gaza will be wiped out but at least one won’t come after you here in the US, but again eh. Sign your own death warrant.
:)
I bet you feel the same about women voting for Harris too. Right? Cuz she’s totally the same as Trump right?
