• Gork@lemm.ee
    216·
    3 months ago

    Isn’t claiming territory that doesn’t belong to you as yours the definition of imperialism?

    • Skua@kbin.earth
      97·
      3 months ago

      They get around this by using a version of Lenin’s definition of imperialism. Lenin characterised imperialism as, in very simple terms, the way that powerful capitalist countries exploit poorer countries (or straight up colonies, especially considering the time in which Lenin was writing). Of course they use a version of this that specifically defines it as just literally anything the countries they don’t like do, leading to ProleWiki insisting that Russia is not imperialist but Liechtenstein is

      • Saledovil@sh.itjust.works
        24·
        3 months ago

        Similarly to how ‘reactionary’ just means ‘bad’ to these people. For the record a ‘reactionary’ is somebody who wants to restore a previous status quo. It’s not inherently good or bad.

        • frezik@midwest.social
          4·
          3 months ago

          Reactionary, in political science terms, is the opposite of radicals. Radicals are to the left and reactionaries are to the right. In practice, people on the internet tend to use radical for both, but I wish the distinction was made more clear.

          • Saledovil@sh.itjust.works
            3·
            3 months ago

            No. Radical is simply somebody who wants to fundamentally change society. It’s not the opposite of a reactionary, in fact, you can be radical and reactionary at the same time.

          • denshirenji@lemmy.world
            2·
            3 months ago

            You are correct. Radicals want things to change in an extreme way, and reactionaries are just that, reactionary to change. Not sure why you got downvoted for knowing what you are talking about.

            Language does change, though, and often laymen use words differently than subject matter experts.

            • frezik@midwest.social
              3·
              3 months ago

              While I usually try not to be prescriptive with language, it has a place. The distinction between radical and reactionary is a useful one.

      • umbrella@lemmy.ml
        1·
        3 months ago

        we get around this by looking back and seeing all that territory was separated by the empire.

  • BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca
    53·
    3 months ago
    • USA belongs to Great Britain
    • England and France belongs to the Roman empire
    • Poland belongs to Prussia
  • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
    48·
    3 months ago

    The US belongs to the UK. But you can keep the Bible belt, we don’t want that bit.

      • frezik@midwest.social
        8·
        3 months ago

        France was paid fair and square for their portion so that they could continue beating up the rest of Europe.

        Oh, and Russia claims Alaska even though they were also paid for it. This has actually been brought up by members of the Duma. America does not have a monopoly on idiots in major legislative bodies.

      • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
        2·
        3 months ago

        All those countries gave up their claims on the US either because they were paid to do so or because other territories were surrendered to them in exchange.

        The Netherlands for example were paid for New York. Which is why there’s no history of conflict between the British empire and the Netherlands.

      • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
        2·
        3 months ago

        The empire never had Scotland. Scotland joined independently, Ireland was colonized by the Scottish under orders of the empire.

        The only territory currently in the UK that the empire took was Wales.

    • Xeroxchasechase@lemmy.world
      16·
      3 months ago

      It’s part of the playbook. That’s his you eliminate the possibility of a good criticism, everything becomes spiderman meme

    • Angry_Autist (he/him)@lemmy.world
      8·
      3 months ago

      It’s more that they are immune to irony, as long as the words they vomit out forward their hidden goals, they don’t care what they say.

      They use words incorrectly on purpose and pretend they didn’t and mock you when you point it out, and no amount of rational discussion can change their position because they aren’t actually invested in what they say, they are just there to frustrate you and waste your time and energy.

      It’s a game for them, and they revel in it. Easiest tactic is to just not engage. Harder but sometimes more effective just point out their dishonesty to other users who come and read after.

      Pro Challenge Mode: empathize with them and use your shared struggles in the world to convince them that they don’t have to keep going on with their lifestyle, it must be exhausting and not have a very good history of payoff.

    • crawancon@lemm.ee
      21·
      3 months ago

      I’ve not had too much of a problem in the .ml communities. they have their opinions and discuss them.

      it’s that hexbear half joke half serious mix of Marxists and fascists that like reallllly get off on removing comments that don’t suit their agenda. I understand not agreeing, but silencing dissenting opinions is the foundation of a lame internet community.

      • Perfide@reddthat.com
        12·
        3 months ago

        I’ve not had too much of a problem in the .ml communities.

        I thought the same until recently. Then I called Maduro(Venezuelas dictator) a dictator and oop, banned.

      • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
        1·
        3 months ago

        I’ve been subbed to a bunch of their comms and not seen anything that was explicitly or could be construed as fascist.

        Most English language online spaces have the western media narrative rigidly enforced. Some people prefer to not have to have a /c/worldnews debate exchange in places they hang out.

  • AShadyRaven@lemmy.zipEnglish
    42·
    3 months ago

    My favorite brand of rage is the kind i feel when someone says a bunch of evil things and then follows it with “if you disagree, youre the evil one”

    • flerp@lemm.ee
      19·
      3 months ago

      These countries that want to be free and independent should be owned by another country that wants to own them and if you disagree you support imperialism… mind-boggling

      • AShadyRaven@lemmy.zipEnglish
        15·
        3 months ago

        yeah its just

        like how do you argue against that? where do you even start?

        they hide meaning behind big words they dont understand and then invent their own meaning for the word until their argument sounds like word soup to anyone who knows what the words actually mean

        “the house is on fire, it should ALWAYS be on fire, and if you disagree then youre a dangerous pyromaniac and a phlebotomist”

        • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
          3·
          3 months ago

          Start by asking them to define their terms. “Belongs”, “imperialism”, and “fascism” are the ones I’d like to see definitions for. Though I’ve gotta admit that I’m not very clear on “fascism” these days, which seems to be a term with many meanings, depending on who is using it.

          If someone’s argument depends on a lack of logic, getting them to elaborate on it can make that obvious.

          They’ll probably avoid the question though because they aren’t there in good faith.

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
          2·
          3 months ago

          Okay but phlebotomists are actually evil. It’s the nurses that keep them from going too far. This is why I always take a wooden stake to my blood draw appointments.

        • Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          1·
          3 months ago

          My default is something snide like “It’s impressive that you were able to write all that when you clearly don’t know how to read” and then block them. For bonus points, make a post in an unrelated community so people who look at your comment history can boost you.

    • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
      6·
      3 months ago

      Reminds me of the Laserpig vs Lira(RIP in piss) “debate” where Lira demanded that Laserpig define evil for him.

      • AShadyRaven@lemmy.zipEnglish
        4·
        3 months ago

        I have no idea who these people are but i love that we have debates and philosophical discussions from people with pseudonyms and stage names

        it feels very ancient greek, with titles like Plato or Outis

        • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
          9·
          3 months ago

          Laserpig is a military history youtuber. He kinda got dragged into doing videos on the Russian invasion of Ukraine and is dealing with tankies/vatniks. His videos are well researched, meme filled and frequently address things he thinks are common misconceptions and why they’re so prevalent.

          Lira is was a tankie/vatnik who was producing pro-Russian propaganda from within Ukraine. He was deported once for it, snuck back in, and was arrested and died of pneumonia while in a Ukrainian holding cell. In case you might feel sorry for him, he had previously called Laserpig a f@g and Lira’s last words to Pig was wishing him death.

          I’m not really interested in linking Lira’s content, but here’s Laserpig’s thoughts on the “debate”. You can look up more Lira stuff on your own if you want.

          • AShadyRaven@lemmy.zipEnglish
            5·
            3 months ago

            i appreciate the summary but i had to google like half of these words and stumbled into a twitter post where someone was doing the whole “it is with a heavy heart blah blah blah gone before their time!” routine about Lira’s death

            and something about the tone of the message felt like when a fascist tries to sound like a real person (i lack the literary chops to explain this, so i hope you understand)

            So i looked up that user’s name and it was a far right podcaster

            I dont have a conclusion for this little anecdote, its just funny how someone can sound like a bootlicker even when saying non-boot-licky things

            They also used this person’s death as a soapbox to preach against the Joe Biden administration, which is a very righty thing to do (because they are incapable of human emotions like empathy)

          • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
            3·
            3 months ago

            And if ya want planes and ships we have Animarchy, now se just need someone to cover guns in the same way. Maybe Zach Hazard fills the role.

  • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world
    40·
    3 months ago

    Within Russia, “imperialism” means “opposition of Russian imperialism”, and “fascism” is just used as “opposition of not supporting the Russian government”.