- cross-posted to:
- anarchism
- cross-posted to:
- anarchism
Alt text: a screenshot of a microblog post with the text “you walking down an alleyway with a gram of weed in your pocket, who would you rather catch you?” Below are two pictures side by side. One of Kamala Harris and the other of Batman.
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Locking this post because it’s been plagued with liberal apologia from the start. This community does not exist to debate the merits of liberalism. Quite the opposite, it’s intended to be a safe space from liberals constantly making us defend our views.
I’m afraid I’ve failed to achieve that in this thread, and have left up and engaged with too much liberal apologia already.
There has been some good discussion here even through all the muck. I apologize if I’ve cut off any good faith discussion.
To all the libs salty about having comments removed - you can debate the merits of your oppressors elsewhere. It won’t be tolerated here.
Honestly don’t think either one would give 2 shits about a gram of weed.
Also batman’s a billionaire. That’s worse than being a cop.
Edit: LOL are you just banning anyone that finds your meme shitty? Fragile.
I’ve banned people for violating multiple of our community guidelines, not for disliking or criticizing my post.
Okay, I call shenanigans.
Some of those comments are still visible, and I find your claim that they violated C/ rules a stretch at best.
I would hope that you either clarify your rules so that it is much less likely to happen in the future, or that you reevaluate the decisions.
The worst of the ones still visible to me would require a great deal of hypersensitivity and a nigh maniacal definition of any of the rules as they existed when I just went to look at them. Now, removing those comments, that would make sense. Warning the people that made them, makes total sense, but it would be better to build up the listing of the rules to include some examples, or you’d end up warning more people over time doing it piecemeal like that.
But bans? I hate to break it to you, but I used to be known for being a harsh mod I’m some ways, and none of those comments merit bans with the rules as they’re currently written.
But, hey, it’s your C/, do what you want. If you want to exclude any and all dissent, that’s your choice. Just don’t be surprised when the C/ ends up as an echo chamber with little to no activity.
The community has been mostly dead for nearly a month due to a lack of moderation, but before I and the other new mod took over this /c it was very intentionally a space free of people defending electoral politics and pro-capitalist politicians. That requires very active and (in some views) harsh moderation. The new mod team have agreed to continue the tradition of the original head moderator. What you call an echo chamber, I call a safe space for nuanced discussion of leftist and post-leftist politics. There are plenty of other places on Lemmy and elsewhere that are friendly to liberals and other capitalists.
I will not tolerate people accusing leftists of being Russian bots or assets in this community, and that’s what I handed out temp bans for. If the community thinks my actions were too harsh, they can be reversed.
The wording of the community guidelines was changed a bit recently by the mod in charge before us, but after the original mod stepped down several weeks ago. Cassa and I have discussed reverting back to the wording of the old rules. We haven’t yet because we didn’t want to be seen as too eager to make changes. We will be considering making these slight changes because I agree with you - clearly spelled out rules will certainly reduce friction on moderation. Especially when moderation needs to be heavy handed.
Well, I definitely get wanting a dedicated leftist space for sure. It’s the line between dedicated and echoey that’s harder to pin down. Obviously, that’s a line that has to be determined to some degree on the fly. Kinda hard to predict everything, so there’s always change along the way.
Me? I see that line being about banning policies. A dedicated space won’t permanently ban a first offense if the rules are vague (and they are here). An echo chamber bans any infractions immediately, no matter how few rules there are, or how clear they are.
Now, I quit being a mod for anything with chances of getting popular because reddit burnt me out with their fuckery, but I get it. Back at the turn of the century, I moderated a neo-pagan/wiccan dedicated forum. The tools to deal with trolls and bad actors were almost nil, and easy to get around. You ain’t seen fuckery until you deal with christians that think they’re on a crusade lol. All I could do back then was ban a specific account, and had no way to block new ones (wasn’t my site).
So, I definitely get the need to preserve a dedicated space.
This is unasked for advice, so no issues if/when it gets ignored. I think the first thing to do, if you’re gong to consult the community about what rules need to be, and the details of policy enforcing them, is get it in front of the community fast. Draw up your plans, post it, and get the feedback before things snowball. With the rules as vague as they are, and federation making it almost certain to bring in regular visitors that are new to not only this C/, but leftist thinking in general, you’ll end up whacking moles left and right. Which is the lot of a mod, but when you have clear rules and policies, the jerks can’t complain when they get banned because it’s right there. The user has the obligation to follow the rules, but when they’re meh, it leaves interpretation room. And that’s a source for drama of the kind that got the C/ boiling recently.
I knew you were a good choice for mod, I’m glad you could do what I could not. Short correction however, the rules dont reflect any changes I attempted. I simply removed some language I deemed unessesary.
Fair enough haha. You reworded the rules didn’t really change the spirit of them. I’ll edit my above post to reflect that.
Also, thanks!
Your welcome :3
Yeah I was apparently supporting oppressive systems for stating a prosecutor can’t unilaterally change laws. Dudes on a trip
This has never been a space friendly to defending or supporting liberalism or state violence.
“She was just doing her job,” or “she can’t unilaterally change laws” or similar are arguments in favor of the oppressive so-called criminal justice system.
Yeah, the whole thing is out of bounds imo. Mind you, as far as I can see, you had comments deleted, which isn’t the same degree of problem as bans. If it also came with an explanation at the time of removal, then it would be doable as a mod team adapts on the go. I don’t have the ability to see any private messages, and none are visible in the thread itself though.
It’s like I said elsewhere, there is no place in the community that I could find where any of these reasons for removal/bans are listed. Since whether or not stating what is a simple fact of the system as it exists is considered a support of that system, and it is part of a nuanced statement that is at least as much a condemnation of the existing system, that being a reason for mod action of any kind would need to be explicitly listed.
I have nothing against strict moderation at all, any dedicated C/ needs it just to stay on topic. A political C/ needs it to stay on topic even more. But the rules have to be spelled out up front, as do the intended actions for a given rule. It might make sense on a private server/forum, but on lemmy, you can’t even rely on visitors being from the same instance.
Moderation ain’t easy, and it ain’t simple. Moderating hot button topics is even more chaotic. Seriously, something like this post is inevitably going to be bonkers behind the scenes. To me that means you make any decisions transparent, be up front, and not moderate your own posts to avoid impropriety.
My stance is that the community needs to have the rules established ASAP. If the mods want to just set the rules and enforce them, that’s their choice and the users’ choice to use the C/or not. If they want to communally establish them, then it needs to start NOW rather than later because the C/ is guaranteed to have topics like this posted regularly. You can’t put off the building of community consensus until after something goes wrong and hope for it to not end up biting you in the ass.
You can do that in an authoritarian system, and anyone that doesn’t like it can bugger off, but trying that in a leftist community would be kinda silly. Doing it in an anarchist leaning community directly goes against the principles of anarchism, imo. You can’t make anarchism work if you’re using authoritarian methods. It just isn’t anarchism at that point. Same with other leftist systems tbh; once you centralize power, you defeat the purpose.
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Just want the snowflake mod to know that I’ve blocked this community because of his truly pathetic display.
Bye 👋
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Oh no, anyway.
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I wonder how long ago I spelled Kamala wrong to get my autocorrect thinking it’s correct with an “e” lol. Thanks
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Some of the earliest Batman comics were about him beating up bootleggers. He also fought a villain who’s goal was supplying cheap and safe pot.
He used to shoot people too in his earliest iterations.
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Oh, nooo, a democratic politician is not gonna bring on a literal liberalsocialist utopia?! That’s basically just like letting a literal faschist win! No difference at aaall!
Ow!
Why am I-ow!
Please, Mr. Mod, sto-ow!
Stop beating me with the anarcho-cop dild-ow!
Why am I being ban-ow?
is driven away in anarcho-mod-ist partolling vehicle
Notice yours and the other comments critical of me still up? I’m not banning anyone or even removing comments for being critical of me or this post.
I’m removing comments supportive of the US so-called justice system or being uncivil and rude in a way not condusive to nuanced political discussion.
I’ve temp-banned three accounts for calling me a Russian bot. That action my be too harsh for a first offence, and I’m open to discussion about that. However, that type of rhetoric has absolutely no place here.
Discussion about the moderation of this community is absolutely allowed, and as long as it doesn’t degrade to throwing insults, it will all remain up.
I’ve really thought about whether I even want to engage with this. Mostly because I see your comment as dishonest, misinformed or maybe just tone deaf; to voice the kindest interpretation I can muster, from what I have seen.
Here’s the deal: The US is currently at a point where its already fragile and lackluster democracy could become completely meaningless within a matter of months.
There’s a time to push for more. But not now. You banned people and deleted their comment for “electioneering”; for advocating for the best path forward currently available. You may not like the system or the dems, but there just isn’t any momentum for anything else. That has to be built up first.
If you want to bitch and moan, feel free to do so after the immediate threat has been dealt with. Anything else is practically accelerationism and will lead to a terrible outcome and disenfranchise who knows how many people.
Bargain with what you have and don’t overextend.
EDIT: I’ll not engage with anything that doesn’t also offer a practical, actionable solution. Striving for the best is great, but look around you. Abolishing the police is not on the table, and not voting because of a single issue is shooting at ones own foot.
EDIT #2: Words.
What you’re proposing is a failed strategy. Remember Hillary? People said exactly what you said, and she lost.
Trying to pretend the justice system is actually just, that’s not going to gain her any votes. You could tackle the issue head on, and that might get her some votes. And voters are remarkably smart in many ways. Dishonesty alienates many of them. They don’t expect that things are perfect now, but they do have hopes for the future, and they’re on the lookout for obfuscation and denial.
Finally, the strategy you’re proposing is something that MLK specifically warned against in Letter from Birmingham Jail.
a practical, actionable solution
I’m starting to believe that there is a contingent on Lemmy who wants this solution to be violent revolution, but they don’t want to say that out loud. They don’t want you to vote Kamala, they don’t want you to vote Trump, they don’t want you to vote third-party–they want you to make some molotovs and buy a Guy Fawkes mask.
But maybe I’m just reading into things.
Eh, I have the same hunch. They wanna be violent and be heroes, but vigilantes are mostly fantasy. In the meantime, they pat themselves on the back for playing pretend
Modern anarchist praxis largely involves building up parallel systems of power with horizontal (rather than hierarchical) structures to counter the existing capitalist systems from within. The revolution that we want to see is not a bloody one fought with guns in the streets, but a cultural one fought by communities of people meeting their own needs without the interference of the state. This is usually called “mutual aid” and is intended to meet the needs of the people who have been failed by capitalist society while also building solidarity and a community informed about the root causes of their problems - namely capitalism and hierarchical power structures.
Anyone pushing for violent revolution is more likely a vanguardist than an anarchist, and anarchists have a very long history of being absolutely fucked over by vanguardist parties throughout the history of anticapitalist struggle.
To suggest that the only alternative to voting is violent revolution is to deny the existence of well over a century of anarchic theory.
By all means, vote for the lesser evil. I won’t stop you nor could I. But when we point out why the lesser evil chosen for us by our masters is still in fact evil, don’t say that we haven’t offered up a viable alternative. The alternative we propose has in fact been in progress by passionate people meeting the needs of thier communities to the largest extent possible for decades. It’s just outside of the confines of what capitalism has pushed as the only method of affecting change, as it must be. You can’t vote away your oppressors.
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I mean, sure, but also weird timing.
I don’t find the timing weird at all with all the bootlicking I’ve seen from the wider fediverse lately.
People can change for the better, and Harris has changed her stance on weed.
Would I rather have a few other folks who were always on the right side of history? Yes.
Is someone who has improved on critical issues acceptable? Also yes.
When she publicly apologizes for her past drug and inmate politics, we can call it a day. Until then they just fucking our ass and asking for our vote later.
I’m sure that when she apoligizes for that you will just find something else to insist she apologize for since changing apparently isn’t enough.
But what has she actually done to show any change? Lives are still ruined, they’re still being ruined every day. She hasn’t apologized, she hasn’t undone any harm, she hasn’t made progress on reparations to the communities she’s hurt. All she’s done is say “I changed” without actually changing anything.
We don’t need to find anything else to insist she apologize for, she literally hasn’t apologized for anything. We’re asking her to take the first step and you’re mad that we would ask her to take a second.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/kamala-harris-record-marijuana-prosecutor-173249390.html
As a senator, Harris championed marijuana decriminalization and eventually legalization. She signed Senator Cory Booker’s marijuana legalization bill in 2017, and she also introduced her own bill to decriminalize marijuana at the federal level.
Is trying a first step, or does it require succeeding?
Does that not count because it is attempting to prevent future convictions instead of magically overturning the convictions from when she was a prosecutor?
You’re probably correct. Until capitalism and all unjust hierarchies are abolished, anarchists will always have criticisms for those in power.
I’m not sure who coined the phrase, and I’m probably paraphrasing pretty heavily here, but - Anarchism is a process, not a goal.
Complaints about moving the goalposts aren’t really a valid criticism of anarchism in my mind. The goalpost is still seemingly impossibly far away. We’re just trying to hit some checkpoints along the way.
I just wanna be treated like a human being. If you like to have an arrogant bully manipulating you as she pleases then enjoy that fucked up relationship. Just remember, being raised without ever hearing an apologize doesn’t mean u don’t deserve it.
Vote if u please, but don’t call that thing a human being.
I’m sorry, are you calling Kamala Harris a thing?
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I didn’t remove it for being wrong, I removed it for supporting oppressive systems. Rule 2
Now I’m removing this one for being uncivil and rude. Rule 3
How was my first comment supportive of oppressive systems? Saying a prosecutor can’t unilaterally decide weed isn’t a crime doesn’t mean I support prosecuting it. I don’t think she’s the best but at least leave up reasonable comments.
“She was just doing her job” isn’t a defense when her job was literally that of the oppressor.
I’ll admit it’s an outdated meme. Doesn’t make her above criticism though.
Acceptable to you is an oppessor to others.
I don’t find the timing weird at all
I’ll admit it’s an outdated meme.
I don’t recall seeing anyone say she is above criticism.
Have you criticized her on the internet?
I have criticized her, possibly elsewhere on the internet if not here. Hell, I didn’t want her until after Biden dropped out and she stepped up to actually push back effectively against Republican fascism.
But if you just want me to say one bad thing about her so you don’t think I’m some kind of fan boy, Harris was wrong recently in saying there is no reason to burn the US flag. That was very nationalistic of her.
If that isn’t good enough, have you passed your own purity test and criticized her the right way on the internet?
Side note: I’m not a registered Democrat because I dislike political parties as a concept and the Dems suck because overall they are moderates who perpetuate shitty policies by over funding police, drag their feet on ending the war on drugs, took way to long to support LGBTQ+ rights (and still only do the bare minimum), plus all of the other stupid shit they do. But I am interested in them winning elections to keep out the way worse Republicans who are actively trying to turn the country into a fascist hellhole instead of fascism light like it is now.
It’s not s purity test, anytime I post even mild critisism of Harris I get all sorts of nasty response including insinuating that I support orange cancer man, that I’m a Russian bot, & that they don’t give a fuck about my concerns(like criminal justice reform or policies that are transphobic)
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It’s so weird how critizing the lesser evil ticks people off!
Be critical of all authority, especially when they still stand by genocidal maniacs 😮💨
Batman.
I would just casually mention how his dead parents are dead and then steal his utility belt as he cries on the floor.
Also one of the tools in the belt has got to be an unlimited corporate credit card - just to flex on the guy I would lower the crime rate in Gotham by using the card to buy things for the homeless, pay for education & medical bills for everyone in Gotham, etc.
Batman does that already. Hes runs the largest charity on earth:
The Wayne Foundation is the holding company for the Thomas Wayne Foundation and the Martha Wayne Foundation; it is the largest transparently operated private foundation within the DC Universe. The primary aims of the foundation are, globally, the arts and humanities: to enhance healthcare and reduce extreme poverty, to expand educational opportunities and access to information technology, and to fund scientific research and help altruistic people with research by providing facilities and training.
The foundation has its own building, called the Wayne Foundation Building, which includes a penthouse where Bruce Wayne lived for a period of time. It also has a secret elevator that leads to a matching Batcave in a secret sub-basement under the building.
Through the Wayne Foundation and the affiliated organizations underneath, Bruce Wayne addresses social-economic problems encouraging crime, assists victims of crimes, and maintains connections to the streets through the soup kitchens and social services groups; all of which augments his crime fighting efforts in a way that his Batman persona cannot. This arrangement also provides a large network of connections in the world of charities. He finds out about the newest trends, sciences and the arts.
Thomas Wayne Foundation
The Thomas Wayne Foundation is a foundation for medicine and medical help. This foundation gives annual awards for medical breakthroughs and lifelong commitment, similar to the Nobel Foundation. The Thomas Wayne Foundation is also responsible for funding the Thomas Wayne Memorial Clinic in Park Row, Gotham’s infamous Crime Alley. The foundation funds and runs dozens of clinics in Gotham. Bruce Wayne’s surrogate mother, Dr. Leslie Thompkins, runs the Memorial Clinic in Crime Alley and governed the other clinics until she left Gotham.
Martha Wayne Foundation
The Martha Wayne Foundation is a patron and supporter of arts, families, education, and tolerance. The foundation supports and helps to run a number of orphanages and free schools, and provides teachers for those who have learning difficulties. Artists can apply for grants from the foundation to help support them in furthering the arts. The foundation sponsors companies like Family Finders. Family Finders is an organization directed at finding lost people and uniting families. The Martha Wayne Foundation also sponsors and runs dozens of soup kitchens within the city.
Yes, I knew this reply was inevitable, but I was mostly making a joke.
Mostly, bcs sure various authors added (contemporary) bits and pieces about how Billionaireman helps too, but that also doesn’t fit in with what Gotham is. Can’t have both. Or just have him be middle class with still money for toys.
What Im saying for example is he could easily buy whole neighbourhoods & rent them for free, this is something with permanent effect that would start a movement. Adding schools, stores, one of his banks, etc would make the henchman market pretty tight. Actually there are a lot of comedic opportunities in that narrative.
Anyway, for my headcanon I kinda decided that all regular violent crime in Gotham is just the immediate doing of some masked and themed villain. So there arent any (constant) street muggings etc. So Batcostumeman doesn’t ‘patrol the streets’ bcs there isn’t such crime to patrol for.
There is an in canon reason Gotham is terrible: its cursed. It doesn’t matter what anyone does, Gotham will always be Gotham.
Its lame as shit, but the writers clearly don’t want to try to resolve their setting, so they hand waved it all away.
Batman literally cannot, in any sense, “fix” Gotham, with any effort or amount of money.
I’d probably move if my city was cursed.
Can’t. Curse stole all your money. And killed you dad, dog, and three Marthas.
Oh and you’re a rabid shrew-person now. 'Cuzza curse.
So Batman could help people by building a new city a few hamburger stadiums away & arrange for free transport there?
Then only owls & masked weirdos would remain.
Or some of them might get minimum wage jobs in the new BatWay city.
He’s fucking bad at it, but that’s the problem with comic universes with alien technology and super genuises running around, poverty should be eliminated but that just leaves all the mortal superheroes with nothing to do.
I actually quite like the Patterson Batman’s take on the Wayne Family philanthropy. Yes, they gave billions to charity, but lost most of it to corruption when his parents were killed and it was in trust…
Or was that his father’s real goal all along?
I guess there are just some problems that cartoonish wealth disparity can’t solve, in DC or in RL.
Me: Kamala may be a democrat but they are still a conservative candidate
Lemmy: [ Sound of a kindergarten class after someone loudly farts ]
