I feel like I need to get this off my chest…
I started transitioning 5 years ago and at this point, I 100% pass, except for voice and a very slight beard shadow (that for some reason no one but me notices).
I feel completely scared about Lesbian spaces, and Cis women in particular. The few times I went out there (which was in the first 2 years of my transition), I’ve had horrible experiences.
It ranges from a few agonizing glances you get occasionally, up to outright comments about “this is a women only space btw”.
I’ve also often noticed how cis lesbians seem to treat me differently when it comes to romantical and sexual interest. The moment it’s revealed that I’m trans, things seem to shift. “Oh, I’ve never tried this”, “oh, that’s interesting, kinda”, quite often there’s the question about bottom surgery (“this might be a bit intimate to ask, but…”), and sometimes even outright ghosting or immediate disinterest.
I feel like this is the last, and yet hardest mountain to climb, to the point where I just feel too frustrated to even try, accepting the fact that, well… I will probably always remain a trans woman, and won’t fit in to those societies that I so heavily relate to when I can keep my pseudonimity.
And yeah, T4T is a thing, it’s pretty much the only thing I got going at this point…
Can anyone relate? Has anyone managed to overcome this hurdle?
Unfortunately, the only people who aren’t going to treat you like a novelty are people that you aren’t a novelty to, and we are a novelty to most cis people, even the supportive ones
I don’t think there is an easy answer to this :/
Transphobia in lesbian spaces is there I’m afraid, I feel like it is somewhat there, even if in a ““non-malignant”” kind of way, in any space with cis people just by virtue of societal values and a long list of etceteras. Best advice I can give, if possible find a space that is explicitly trans-inclusive, not just LGBTQ, but Trans in particular, you’ll have more of a chance of lesbians there being more open and experienced being around trans people, not a silver bullet by any means, but it’ll be a bit better.
So yeah, trust me can relate, we are all together climbing this mountain, just make sure you stop from time to time to rest at some safe spaces, we’ll provide some needed break and some virtual hugs and support, best of luck to you in the climb sister!
Keep looking. You just gotta find the right WLW spaces that foster a good atmosphere.
Last summer I was apart of a group called the beaver lodge, and it was great. I never felt excluded everyone was awesome and we had a lot of good times.
You ran into some terfs and insensitive people. There are better people just around the corner.
I experience a lot less of this fear, or at least how I experience it has changed a lot. For me a core part of the fear/discomfort was related to imposter syndrome and my inability to feel completely confident in my womanhood and my identity as a queer woman. Bottom surgery was a very big part of ridding myself of that imposter syndrome. My dysphoria used to make me feel completely invalidated, and that led to feeling like there was something preventing me from accepting my womanhood. It obviously won’t be the same for everyone, and I don’t think that most people would need bottom surgery to feel comfortable in women’s spaces online and in person. But I personally do not feel that same discomfort in women’s spaces anymore. When I meet with bigotry there I feel angry more than afraid. I just in general have a lot more confidence in myself and my womanhood.
It might be imposter syndrome, now that you mention it… Funnily enough, with my bottom done 4 years ago, I also feel completely happy with my transistion and I honestly don’t even feel dysphoria anymore (except for rare instances), but yeah… this issue persists.
It kinda feels like entering these spaces makes me realize just where the differences between me as a trans woman and cis women are, those small little things that transition can’t easily or properly fix
I think a lot of trans women struggle to take up room in women’s spaces, whether that be because of internalised or external bigotry. I usually seek out explicitly trans, or pro-trans, spaces.
You aren’t alone
Having said that I have found that spaces that not only say they support trans people, but actually demonstrate it in some way are a lot more comfortable. Also I guess the feeling has faded a bit over time, for me at least, idk why, different culture where I am now to my home country I guess
As someone else has mentioned, it may be partly impostor syndrome. At least for me it is. But being out for so long (> 4 years), I can slowly accept my womanhood independently from how I present or how people address me. That doesn’t mean I’m unaffected by transphobic comments or misgendering (which I still frequently get), but that I can get angry about it instead of feeling like an impostor. I’m more and more in a position where I can claim my womanhood despite people denying it and that is a big win. I’m also less prone to feeling like shit when I haven’t shaved in a few days etc.
Regarding your questions: I live in Germany and in my city there are no lesbian/women only places that I know of, but most are open to women, lesbians, inter, non-binary, trans and agender people (wlinta or FLINTA in German). So these are places that should be a safe place for me as well. It still took me a veeeery long time to dare to even enter any of these spaces because feeling like an impostor. And in my case it was definitely more of my own fear then people actually excluding me.
Although I hardly know any cis lesbians and the ones I got to know were friendly but clearly not up to dating trans/nb people. As you said yourself, the available dating pool is frustratingly small. I’ve also had various frustrating experiences with heteroflexible cis women (and even cis men). I guess mostly cis people are just very confused about me and their emotions towards me and in the end it always gets messy and I feel like shit because I feel like it would be so much easier if I were just a cis woman… :/
T4T is great and all, but we are just so few people and it’s hard to find anyone…
I feel you. I’m from Switzerland and there almost aren’t any lesbian spaces either in the place I live, but lots of FLINTA.
What actually made me struggle is that I’m currently live in an environment where a lot of people around me are bi girls. One of them has a friend who is a full-on lesbian and from her talking about her, she seems to be literally like me, except for her being cis.
At first I felt incredibly happy and even started crushing a bit, until I realized and remembered that well… I’m trans, she’s cis, if we ever get to know each other, that will likely become a problem, which subsequentally threw me into this pit of despair I’m currently in.
Before that realization I was incredibly excited to meet her, now I’m scared and feel like rather not meeting her even…
And yeah, you hit the nail in regards to t4t, even though there are some local transgirls around, the dating pool is so slim that there’s rarely a match, while the girls you do match with are living a lot of hours away. In regards to switzerland in particular, that’s proving to be an even bigger challenge, since any potential partners couldn’t move closer unless we marry (or unless I leave switzerland again, which I definitely couldn’t anymore). If I were mono that wouldn’t be too big of an issue, but obviously, I had to be born being polyamorous, which sucks even harder :/
Yeah, it’s just so frustrating. Although I guess dating in the digital age is hard and frustrating all by itself. But at least cishet people have a certain dating pool, not like us :/ I actually hardly know any trans women or trans feminine people IRL. The ones I do know I don’t really get along with. The only trans women I could bond with I only knee through online spaces. This makes it even harder for me (us) to face trans-specific issues. Dealing with internalized transphobia or just having a person who deeply understands what is going on inside of you because they face the same issues would sometimes help a lot…
Hm, maybe you could still get to know this friend and hope? Just because she is cis doesn’t necessarily mean she wouldn’t be into you. (At least two cis lesbians were into me at one point!) But maybe just try to keep your expectations in check and if you’re really lucky it’ll work out somehow ;)
And I feel you on being poly. I had a really great casual thing with a non-binary person but in the end they wanted to be exclusive and were searching for the one love. Unfortunately this wasn’t not for me…
Well yeah, I’ll give it a try nonetheless, but my expectations are incredibly low, since I doubt there might be anything happening… let’s see.
Gotta say though, long term does work out okay-ish as long as you’re reasonably close. My fiancee lives in northern germany, and even though visitting her takes aeound 10h by train, it’s doable ever so often an very great. Still, LDR sucks, since traveling back again leaves a deep hole :/
Good luck then!
And yes, I feel you, I had a LTR with someone from northern England. That wasn’t fun either, always feeling like shit when we could see each other only a few times per year :/
Unless you’re stealth-- and I mean voice, everything-- t4t is the only way. you’ll find “trans acceptance” is superficial.
i think in this specific matter we shouldn’t wish to be cis but for cis ppl to be normal and overcome their subconscious transphobia, so that no one has to feel like an imposter or undesirable because of the sex they were born with. we arent at fault, its society
I was in a relationship before I started transitioning, but I relate a lot. Not just as transfem, but also because I’m bi. I’ve never had my gender questioned, but I have most certainly had similar experiences with monosexuals(people who’s only attracted to a single gender) due to my sexuality, nearly regardless of which dating space I’ve been in.
ngl cis ppl and cis lesbians in particular treating trans ppl or trans fems badly or weird is a problem with them and not with us. it sucks they are like that but this shouldn’t be a reason to change and try to appeal to their weird, transphobia rooted perspective.
Yeah, I feel you, but given that we can’t change society overnight, this ultimately becomes a circumstance we have to deal with, unfortunately :/
