Fuck all imperialist and hierarchical power structures. Fuck colonialism and fuck the police. Fuck fascists and the libs that enable them.
Xi Jinping is a fascist, and I don’t think it was liberals that enabled him
Xi’s also an imperialist and implemented a hierarchical government. Nothing I said was paradoxical. Fuck 'em all.
What liberals enabled Xi??
Did I say that all authoritarians are enabled by liberals? What agenda are you trying to push by misconstruing my words? Like seriously what point are you trying to reach here?
fuck fascists and the liberals who enable them.
I think it was this part where you link fascists to liberal enablers.
I didn’t stutter. Fuck every liberal enabling the rise of fascism.
Ah I see. Your point would have been clearer if it was “ fuck the fascists and
theany liberals who enable them”
But that =/= “every fascist is and always has been enabled by liberals.”
They’re saying that it’s very common for liberals to side with a rising fascist over the left in a misguided attempt to maintain the status quo. They’d typically rather move to the right instead of giving any quarter to the left, because the left wants to upend the structures of oppression, while the right wants to bolster them—while scapegoating an out-group.
Look at what macron is doing in France right now. Moving to the right to build a coalition with them to go against the majority left coalition that won the election.
Nixon
The only country actually running over people with tanks is Israel and does it with the unconditional support of the US
Liberals as always don’t see Arabs as people. Don’t you dare come asking for our votes.
And by “liberal” you mean anyone who dares criticise Daddy Putin and Supreme Leader Xi, amirite?
Dude my very first sentence was “Fuck all imperialist and hierarchical power structures.” How can you think that I support China or Russia?
Uh oh, you’ve activated the libs. Now they’ll make wild assumptions and other fabrications instead of actually addressing anything you’ve said.
Uh oh, you’ve activated the
libstankies. Now they’ll make wild assumptions and other fabrications instead of actually addressing anything you’ve said.FTFY, lib
You seem to be under the impression that liberals have a logically and ethically consistent belief structure.
The realization that liberals are unscratched fascists is a tough one, but you are one of the few intelligent folks able to recognize it… it’s a curse.
you’re such an online edgelord that you’re fighting straw men of your own creation. sign off, your family probably misses you.
Oops. Posted on tankie news again. Always forget to check.
Edit: actually, i retract that. I got mixed up with another thread.
Your use of tankie is exactly like the conservative use of woke. You’re not even close to superior to those you mock. Hopefully one day you realize that and actually apply that human brain of yours.
Just to be clear, you don’t think I should be against liberals enabling fascism? You don’t see anything wrong with the slow march to the far right that’s happening in so many parts of the world recently?
The irony of a liberal calling an anarchist authoritarian… Liberals are simps for an authoritarian economic system
I’m just really annoyed by “liberal” constantly being equated with “fascist enabler” round here. If anyone calls themselves a liberal while supporting fascists, they’re just fascists in disguise. While there are people like that, that’s not what liberalism means, in fact, it’s quite the opposite.
Please, enlighten me about what you think liberalism means. In my view (as an anarchist) liberalism is at best ineffective at preventing fascism from taking over. It enables colonialism and imperialism, and offers no solution to the horrors of capitalism. Liberal ideology is one of state violence and compromise with literal fascists.
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law. Liberals espouse various and often mutually warring views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion, Liberalism is frequently cited as the dominant ideology of modern history.
- Wikipedia
It’s a language issue. You’re likely from the United States, where liberal is used to suggest an adherent to classical liberalism or progressivism. Most of the rest of the English speaking world means neoliberal, as in an advocate or supporter of free-market capitalism, deregulation, and the reduction of government spending.
I’m fortunately not from the US. But you’re right. A lot of people equate liberal with neoliberal or libertarian. Which is a real bummer.
focusing on voting as the only allowed political action, supporting capitalism, valuing order over justice…
Dude, liberals literally helped Hitler become Reichskanzler.
For anyone not familiar, that was in no small part thanks to Paul von Hindenburg. If only he had instead gone the way of the zeppelin named after him.
So many of them on Lemmy lol
They clearly wrote fuck hierarchical powers. Fuck any supreme leader.
They think liberal is the same as neoliberal
imperialism is the subjugation of one country for the benefit of the first. DPRK is not imperialist (how could it be under UN sanctions), PRC is not imperialist, USSR was not imperialist.
Communists critically support the DPRK, the USSR, and the PCR, progressive liberals uncritically support Obama, Biden, conservative liberals uncritically support Trump, Bush, etc
read lenin.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/
Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak? Quite a few comrades always keep their eyes shut and talk nonsense, and for a Communist that is disgraceful. How can a Communist keep his eyes shut and talk nonsense?
It won’t do!
It won’t do!
You must investigate!
You must not talk nonsense!
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-6/mswv6_11.htm
The instance you use is named after an Ikea plush. I will not debate you.
The South China Sea, Poland and most of eastern Europe would like a word…
Edit: Oh, and Tibet, Taiwan, etc…
Poland and most of eastern Europe would like a word
I’ve answered already to someone else making the example of Estonia, but I’ll answer you too so that you can see my take.
After 30+ years of anti-communist propaganda, of course many countries in Eastern Europe may “disagree”. As a currently ongoing example, the other day there was an article ( paywalled, but you can read it pasting the link in 12ft.io ) in the Spanish newspaper “El País” about a new museum in Moldova dedicated to the forcibly relocated to other parts of the USSR during the late 30s. The article talks about the horrors of Stalinism and how 90k people from the region were forcibly relocated in 1937-1941, although the majority were allowed to return in the 50s. All that’s good, having a memory of our history is a good thing. But then, the article goes on with some conversation with the “Director of the National Agency of Archives in Moldova”, Igor Casu. I’ll translate to Spanish:
Casu considers that the war in neighboring Ukraine started by Russia has made the [Moldovan] citizens begin to perceive the Soviet regime as one of occupation and colonisation
So, basically, conflating the current imperialist capitalist Russia with communist USSR. But the funny part comes now, when they actually quote Casu:
“We hope that if the deportations keep being exposed ni the following five years, we’ll achieve that a solid part of the population will be really informed, and, at the same time, that they’ll consolidate a national identity”
So, they’re going FULL mask-off, and basically saying “we want to show this particular side of history not with the objective of remembrance of victims, but actually to create a new national identity based on the independence from supposedly oppressive Russia”. Fostering nationalism and anti-Russian sentiment as part of the new national identity. This is the recipe that’s been successfully applied to most of Eastern Europe for the past 30+ years, and you can see the results by asking any Polish person what they think of Russians. If this isn’t clear enough, the article reminds us:
During the last years, under the rule of the pro-European government, this ex-Soviet republic has been making efforts to propagate knowledge of the suffering created by the phenomenon of “Russification” that took place […]
Mind you, not a single reference in the article or the monument, to the 140.000 Jews deported by the Nazis during the 1940s invasion in Moldova, of whom 90.000+ were murdered in concentration camps. Let’s remember the victims of horrors of our history, but only those politically convenient to us now. Since we want to get closer to western Europe, including Germany, let’s put those killed by Nazis (many more than by Soviets) aside for now.
If you look at historical evidence, you can’t possibly make the argument that Estonia was subjugated and exploited by the USSR. The local language was preserved and there was an abundance of written publications in Estonian, people were allowed to study in the local language, the salaries were similar to those in the rest of the USSR (or higher actually), industrialization rates were equal or higher to those of the rest of the USSR, number of doctors/teachers and hospital beds per capita were equal… really, none of the telltales of imperialism are there. If you want to see a discussion with actual data regarding this, I suggest you have a look at “Human Rights in the Soviet Union” by Albert Szymanski, a wonderful book filled to the brim with data and a rather nuanced discussion.
So let’s not pretend that there hasn’t been a strong effort from pro-western authorities in all of Eastern Europe into pushing the narrative that this made-up historically continuous “Russia” has been exploiting and colonising Eastern Europe, and let’s not pretend that the opinion of most people in Eastern Europe who’ve been exposed to this campaign for the past 3 decades is unbiased and historically accurate (because public opinion never is).
Oh, and Tibet, Taiwan
Funny that you mention those two as well. Taiwan’s national identity, again, has been manufactured from the ground up over the past 30+ years. The data that western countries celebrate of Taiwanese people mostly declaring themselves to be “only Taiwanese”, is a fairly recent trend. From the link above:
According to the latest survey by National Chengchi University in Taipei (June 2023), 62.8 percent of the inhabitants of the Republic of China perceive themselves as “Taiwanese only,” 30.5 percent “both Taiwanese and Chinese,” and 2.5 percent “Chinese only.” In 1992, when surveys began, 25.5 percent described themselves as “Chinese only” and 17.6 percent “Taiwanese only,” with the remaining 46.4 percent “both Taiwanese and Chinese.”
So the country has gone from a 17.6% of “Taiwanese only” and a 25.5% of “both Taiwanese and Chinese” in 1992, to 63% of “Taiwanese only” and 2.5% of “Chinese only”. Funny how it’s the exact same process that I was describing above for Estonia and Moldova, in which 30+ years of propaganda can generate a new national identity and generate negative feelings towards previously friendly neighboring countries!
Regarding Tibet, I don’t think I’ll find such polls about national identity. However, until the Sino-Tibetan war, Tibet was literally a feudal country in which an aristocracy owned the lands and serfs were legally bound to the land as workers. When you criticise the lack of Tibet’s autonomy after the Sino-Tibetan war, remember that you’re arguing in favor of a literal feudal regime with aristocrats and serfs.
Look dude I’ve worked with many MLs and MLMs. I’ve read some of both Lenin and Mao’s works. I think the recent rhetoric of calling communists fascist is wholely harmful to the left and I don’t participate in it. I never called the DPRK imperialist for obvious reasons. I didn’t even call the PRC imperialist because I do recognize that western media is not a reliable source on the matter. I recognize my own ignorance in these matters and don’t take part in uncritically decrying post-revolution communist states.
We disagree on the way a just society should be structured, or the methods of achieving that end. I consider authoritarianism and unjust hierarchies as a problem of both capitalism and state communism, but as long as my viewpoints can be heard and addressed, I personally don’t have issue with MLs and MLMs. The atrocities of capitalism far outweigh the failures of established communist states.
Communism is neither left nor right. It is just a construct of governance. While it was originally promoted by leftists, it can be either left or right. Some communists are conservative and/or fascist (ex. China).
Communism is neither left nor right.
The Left/Right divide is about property. Should it be collectivized, or individually owned and traded, ie Socialism vs Capitalism. Communism, therefore, must be left-wing.
It is just a construct of governance.
Yes and no. Communism is also economic in nature.
While it was originally promoted by leftists, it can be either left or right.
You cannot have Right-Wing Communists.
Some communists are conservative and/or fascist (ex. China).
The PRC is socially conservative, yes. Economically, it is Socialist, though certainly not yet Lower-Stage Communist. This does not make China “fascist” or right-wing. It is a socially reactionary, economicaly progressive state.
USSR was not imperialist.
Countries like Estonia might disagree with you there, buddy.
After 30+ years of anti-communist propaganda, of course many countries in Eastern Europe may “disagree”. As a currently ongoing example, the other day there was an article ( paywalled, but you can read it pasting the link in 12ft.io ) in the Spanish newspaper “El País” about a new museum in Moldova dedicated to the forcibly relocated to other parts of the USSR during the late 30s. The article talks about the horrors of Stalinism and how 90k people from the region were forcibly relocated in 1937-1941, although the majority were allowed to return in the 50s. All that’s good, having a memory of our history is a good thing. But then, the article goes on with some conversation with the “Director of the National Agency of Archives in Moldova”, Igor Casu. I’ll translate to Spanish:
Casu considers that the war in neighboring Ukraine started by Russia has made the [Moldovan] citizens begin to perceive the Soviet regime as one of occupation and colonisation
So, basically, conflating the current imperialist capitalist Russia with communist USSR. But the funny part comes now, when they actually quote Casu:
“We hope that if the deportations keep being exposed ni the following five years, we’ll achieve that a solid part of the population will be really informed, and, at the same time, that they’ll consolidate a national identity”
So, they’re going FULL mask-off, and basically saying “we want to show this particular side of history not with the objective of remembrance of victims, but actually to create a new national identity based on the independence from supposedly oppressive Russia”. Fostering nationalism and anti-Russian sentiment as part of the new national identity. This is the recipe that’s been successfully applied to most of Eastern Europe for the past 30+ years, and you can see the results by asking any Polish person what they think of Russians. If this isn’t clear enough, the article reminds us:
During the last years, under the rule of the pro-European government, this ex-Soviet republic has been making efforts to propagate knowledge of the suffering created by the phenomenon of “Russification” that took place […]
Mind you, not a single reference in the article or the monument, to the 140.000 Jews deported by the Nazis during the 1940s invasion in Moldova, of whom 90.000+ were murdered in concentration camps. Let’s remember the victims of horrors of our history, but only those politically convenient to us now. Since we want to get closer to western Europe, including Germany, let’s put those killed by Nazis (many more than by Soviets) aside for now.
If you look at historical evidence, you can’t possibly make the argument that Estonia was subjugated and exploited by the USSR. The local language was preserved and there was an abundance of written publications in Estonian, people were allowed to study in the local language, the salaries were similar to those in the rest of the USSR (or higher actually), industrialization rates were equal or higher to those of the rest of the USSR, number of doctors/teachers and hospital beds per capita were equal… really, none of the telltales of imperialism are there. If you want to see a discussion with actual data regarding this, I suggest you have a look at “Human Rights in the Soviet Union” by Albert Szymanski, a wonderful book filled to the brim with data and a rather nuanced discussion.
So let’s not pretend that there hasn’t been a strong effort from pro-western authorities in all of Eastern Europe into pushing the narrative that this made-up historically continuous “Russia” has been exploiting and colonising Eastern Europe, and let’s not pretend that the opinion of most people in Eastern Europe who’ve been exposed to this campaign for the past 3 decades is unbiased and historically accurate (because public opinion never is).
Cool. The USSR still invaded and annexed Estonia. And Lithuania. And Latvia. And Armenia. Shall I go on?
Military invasion =/= imperialism, I’m surprised I have to explain this to a leftist.
Funny, invading multiple countries and making them part of your country sure sounds like it fits that definition to me.
Invading another country preventively in the wake of WW2 and the threat of Nazism =/= imperialism, I’m sorry buddy. Not defending the invasion of Estonia, but categorising it as imperialism is dumb and ahistorical.
‘The instance you use is named after an Ikea plush. I will not debate you.’
This JK Rowling?
I think you proved their point. Also, your ad hominem attack (or ad urbem attack) could be construed as transphobic.
Lmao
Hear fuckin hear!
Here here
‘The Libs,’ LOL!!!
From a anon American, it’s hilarious seeing the hick come out. ‘the Libs hur durrr.’
Hahaha that shits always funny
You’re replying to a leftist, not a conservative “hick.”
How many billionaires before a country is a liberal shit-hole?
600?
675?
Idk man, one seems like too many to me.
China’s around 695, guessing the threshold is 700. That’s when the tankies will turn on it for sure.
Punk is not dead
These “tankies” are conservative right-wing shitbag trolls trying to convince the normal people that supporting oppression and dictators is somehow “left-wing”. Do not fall for their conservative bullshit.
Just like any other conservative, every word they utter is deception or manipulation. Tankies are conservative trolls through and through.
That’s a no true Scotsman argument.
There are plenty of actual tankies here. In fact, the Lemmy software is created by tankies and one of the larger Lemmy instances is run by them.
From what I’ve seen, there’s a big divide amongst the tankies. There are those who are basically Stalin MAGA, base their political opinions on Soviet aesthetics and don’t consider much the practical implications of their actions. Some simply lash out against mainstream liberal ideology and others are just trolls.
Ane the other camp is made of people who read a lot of communist philosophy and are absolutely convinced the only way to achieve an equal society is by forcing everyone into it. This has its own problems, but they at least have an internally coherent ideology.
That’s not to say I agree with either camp. Their ideology promotes a vanguard party which can quickly spiral into “some are more equal than others”. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and all that. But I do understand where the second camp is coming from. I think the path to a better world lies in trade unions and people coming together to defend common interests.
When they are actively censoring and banning people who make critical comments about the PRC, the USSR, or even present day Russia, I don’t care where they come from.
I was banned from lemmy.ml myself for saying something about the Tiananmen Square massacre.
You got banned for a month because you posted an off topic anti-China meme in the thread looking for moderators of the memes sub with the text “Why, so you can censor some more posts critical of China? The modlog of this sub is absolutely ridiculous:”
The ban expired a month ago so I guess feel free to go back.
E: after more carefully scrutinizing the images in the modlog, you posted a screenshot of people being banned or having posts removed for posting gore and debunked sinophobic stuff.
Debunked sinophobic stuff like what? In my experience, that category includes anything critical of China, including Tiananmen Square.
or even present day Russia,
How did this even happened? How can anyone not right-wing ban for opposing Putin’s oligarchs like Usmanov, Roldugin, Rotenberg, Yakunin and Putin himself?
deleted by creator
There are plenty of actual tankies here.
When a term becomes an insult, it’s very difficult to use it as anything other than an insult.
I more often see “tankie” used to decribe anti-war liberals than pro-war leftists.
Both r/conservative and lemmy.ml are equally frightened of facts.
In my own experience with actual Communists (I do live in a country which has them), they’re some of the most conservative people around.
I mean, these people are holding on really hard to political slogans which often are a century old or near it and they genuinelly an uncritically think all that stuff is Leftwing even in the face of all evidence that such forms invariably led to the creating of new Elites and to lesser or greater extent Dystopian Societies, never the promised Equalitarian Utopia.
Plenty of Lefties around who trully believe in Leftwing Principles without the insane tribalism of following the dictats of The Party.
Personally I just saw this meme as referencing such traditionalist unthinking muppets who think of themselves as Lefties all the while defending the well installed and entrenched establishment and elites of a few specific countries.
I’d bet that most of them aren’t trolls. I have friends who were liberal as you could be, but they let cynicism turn them into tankies.
Haha no, they are real. Horseshoe theory of politics and all, what comes around goes around.
The association with the left-wing is the point. Otherwise it would just be calling right wing trolls conservatives and fascists, and there’s a resistance to that for some reason.
Lemmy was originally built by and for tankies, so this is completely unsurprising. The .ml TLD on the original instance isn’t a coincidence.
Lemmygrad was literally made to be an even more mask off .ml
Weird they made a decentralized platform for one single group.
They made it for themselves but let us set up instances outside of their control due to their morals that software should be open for all. Again proving the best open source software comes from scratching a personal itch.
Of course it’s OUR SOFTWARE
(cue soviet anthem)
/s
Of course it’s OUR SOFTWARE
(cue soviet anthem)
Which one? I choose The Internationale.
Off-topic, but the Starlight Glimmer art is on the point so well.
Starlight is one of the best representations of the Tankie IMO.
And the writers had the guts to pull it off in a show meant for a 5yo.
That’s impressive honestly.
Kinda. S5 GlimGlam? Yes. S6? Nah.
The problem was childhood-trauma-induced fake-smiles-forcing cutiemark-taking with propaganda. Remove it and what remains isn’t bad. Doesn’t seem to be much different from ideology of other places.
As an example from first season there is Winter Wrap-up, which is basically annual subbotnik.
That’s true, now that I think about it. But I still think the writers nailed the mindset in S5.
The final battle between Starlight and Twilight was epic for the lack of a better word.
How authoritarian of them
It was never closed to non-tankies, but it wasn’t very welcoming. I had an account on .ml early on and most of the time I got hammered with downvotes, despite having opinions that I’d describe as being on the left edge of liberalism.
To be clear, the left edge of liberalism is bernie sanders. Is that what youre saying?
Meh, I’d say Bernie is either a social democrat or a reformist socialist who hides his power level.
He’s a self described democratic socialist
Correct, but I’m pretty sure he said he doesn’t want to completely socialize the economy.
By US standards maybe, but I’m to the left of that.
Some members of LDPR(e.g. Furgal) seem to be more left than Bernie. And LDPR is former LDPSU - first right-wing party of USSR. Or some members of Union of Right Forces.
Not corporate neofeudalist is better than corporate neofeudalist, which is improvement for US. But I can’t say he is on edge even of liberalism.
and most of the time I got hammered with downvotes
Downvotes are federated.
Yeah but this was 3 years ago, Lemmy was basically only the .ml instance at that time.
It’s almost like the dishonest nature is built into their every move.
CTH has been eradicated from every platform it’s arisen on, then they built Lemmy.
deleted by creator
That is enlightening and not very surprising.
I had one of these fucks try to tell me that North Korea is very democratic.
They literally have democratic in their name!!1!1!! /s
Easy, NK: One man, one vote. Thus democratic.
And the man? It’s Kim.
SEEEEE THEY HAVE ONE MORE PARTY IN PARLAMENT THAN THE USA!!!11!1! /j
Wait, really? It says more about USA than about Korea. How does one become even worse than Korea? It is antiachivement.
In literally no instance is the USA worse than north Korea. Unless you count the lack of murder death camps and a supreme dictator for life as something to be better at
The USA has a higher rate of incarceration.
Based on the number of incarceration we know. Who knows if that’s true and how many are executed
Well, now I know about 3 countries in the world with death penalty: USA, Belarus and NK.
Belarusians are working on this.
No it doesnt. NKs parlament is for show and fasade.
Kim’s party holfs 98% of the seats. The other 2 partys hold no power at all and arent an opposition. They always vote with the main party.
No it doesnt. NKs parlament is for show and fasade.
Helloooo… Are you replying to something else? Or you don’t know what an antiachivement is? That’s the entire point.
They turn all the lights out at night because everyone voted for it, not because they are a failing authoritarian state that struggles to keep their grid running. Allows for great stargazing from the very normal hard labor camps.
hexbear has entered the chat
lemmygrad
lemmy.ml too increasingly
I’m seeing more and more tankies migrate to lemmy.world, because they don’t do anything against them, but lemmy.world is also much less likely to get defederated by other instances. Fuck big, centralized instances. People should move to smaller, niche servers like db0, blahaj.zone, beehaw, etc.
Beehaw has explicitly stated that they do not want more people to join, they want to maintain it as a micro-server, by the way.
In general, I do think joining smaller servers is a good idea.
my alt is on blahaj and I really enjoy the local stuff there but its so slow for me sometimes :/
That’s the average lemmy.ml user
Lemmy is worse for political discussion than Reddit has ever been. At least Reddit has had the numbers for people to call out extreme views on either side, but the number of absolute nutjobs on here that either call for the downfall of capitalism immediately, or to let right-wing thinking slide as a natural progression of politics today. They’re the sort of people that post memes about murdering Nazis in the streets, but would cower at the sight of one - or those that would happily march if they weren’t so fucking awkward.
Some of us just want to enjoy the memes.
Imagine unironically comparing wanting the end of capitalism to fascism
Not sure I agree. Just from the number of pro-kamala threads and negative Trump threads. I don’t see that much in the way of extreme views.
Many people on .world are the so-called ‘Reddit refugees’. I’ve noticed a large portion of them tend to be liberals (as in neoliberals) from the United States and accordingly think of anything left of center as “radical/extreme leftism”. A few weeks back, they were all agitated over some leftist strawmen a few of their more vocal members have been fabricating to gripe about. This is likely just a continuation of the same.
I’m a Reddit refugee too. But thanks for the context. I haven’t seen the straw man. I have noticed a really strong streak of “blue no matter who” which is a terrible attitude to have, that’s the way the Maga folks think.
I’m not even in the US (I’m an Aussie) but my opinion is blue, but like, do better? We gotta do better. Please do better.
To be fair we have the same thing here with shills for the mainstream parties. (But we do have viable 3rd options)
The straw man is “tankies”. There are actual tankies on Lemmy, but these geniuses are using it like United States fascists use woke: to describe anything they don’t like and to shut down discourse. They’re pretty much blue MAGA. It’s gross.
I feel the same way, both about the cultish behavior and that people can and should do better. Unfortunately, the United States treats politics much like it treats sports, and I believe this is partly why idiocy like this manifests so frequently.
Tankies is not a straw man. There’s literally someone in this very thread lying about the events of Tianamen Square by claiming the literal tanks were totally peaceful and not used as part of the CCP’s oppression of people protesting.
It’s almost like you ignored the entire content of the comment you responded to so you could refute a point that isn’t being made.
blue maga is a nonsensical term. MAGA literally want to end democracy and execute their "enemies’. The people you describe as blue maga are…checks notes…shutting down discussions on social media.
The dramatic irony of your discourse poisoning comment in response to a comment about poisoning discourse may be immeasurable using today’s technology.
Yo. I’m not American. (Have lived there before)
But this is hilarious… Maga and the republicans have used the most horrendous language and discourse for the last 8 or so years…
Democrats been little pussy cats…
This shits undoubtable.
They’re doing more than that, but clearly you’re not interested in discourse so much as… Checks notes… Looking for opportunities to tell people they’re wrong, so I’m not going to waste my time explaining further.
Facts… If you are maga, you want a king in America… or are a complete idiot. Like so much so, that you deliberately avoid the evidence of the crimes your ex president committees specifically against the American people and process.
There are almost no other options. Want a king/fool.
Unfortunately I see tankie sentiments expressed far too often on Lemmy. Case in point this very thread: https://lemmy.world/comment/11331168
I did see this kind of extremist view expressed on Reddit too, but far less commonly than here.
heck you don’t even have to go that far. the second picture can be pretty much every republican president whos held office. When was the last ware we started happen while a dem president was in office?
Israel’s invasion of Gaza could be considered a proxy war
Howdy, Stretch!
It isn’t as much of a stretch as that created by Israel sticking their hands far up U.S. govt’s ass.
Wait, so the US is the puppet? Is the US fighting Israel’s proxy war? Do you people even know what you’re saying when you say stuff like this?
Of course not! US bad it’s as simple as that.
It is a stretch, but it’s also a proxy war funded by the US that escalated several fold under Biden
You’re gonna pop a shoulder soon!
A proxy war implies they’re using another nation to fight an enemy. Which enemy are they fighting? Palestine is not an enemy or threat to the US.
You could consider Ukraine as potentially a proxy war, but you’d have to be pretty stupid or pretty mislead to think Gaza is.
Source?
What do you mean “Source?” Are you asking for a source that Israel invaded Gaza? A source that the US funded it? A source that it escalated during Biden’s presidency?
They’re “stinkyonions”.
They’re asking for sauce.
I don’t see how. you would need to consider any military action by any ally then as a proxy war for any nation. So it would be a proxy ware for most of europe to and asia and a good part of both africa and the americas.
Operation Prosperity Guardian, started by Joe. That took me about 10 seconds.
More like a defense of merchant ships attacked by houthis.
I wouldn’t call that a “war started by Joe Biden”.
Well Wikipedia considers it a war, I bet the poor mother fuckers that died think so too, but that list has 7 other conflicts that Obama started, weirdly there isn’t a single one by the ultimate mega hitler everyone is talking about.
Megahitler closed a “don’t shoot while I’m running away” deal with the Taliban that Biden had to mop up, now you can hate on Sleepy Joe as much as you want, but that is Drumpf’s doing.
Another day, another comment I’ll block for stupidity.
The 10 people who died in the defense of merchant ship from houthis is totally comparable to the tens of thousands of homeless people, protestors, victims of police violence, inability to pay for medical care, resulting from Trump era policies, not to mention what banning abortion will do.
I’m not trying to defend Trump, I’m just saying that the proposition that all Democrats are bloodless pacifists is completely removed from reality.
The US hasn’t declared war since WW2. Wikipedia will tell you that, too.
You don’t have to declare war for it to be a war. The US has carried out plenty of wars since WW2.
Sorry for your loss.
What
So the war on Ukraine isn’t a war because Putin didn’t declare it? You guys are delusional.
Megahitler is currently focused on the enemy within, after that is exhausted they will need to start on the enemy without.
Ansar Allah could just take Iran’s fist out of their ass. But they seem to love being front line puppets.
Oh well if Wikipedia says it is then I guess we have no choice. Who invented the toaster again?
ultimate mega hitler
If Trump wins and he starts marching the Latino and queer people into camps like in the threats his people are making, I want you to remember that you said this.
Absolute lunacy. You really believe this?
Do I really believe that they’ll do what they’re threatening to do when they get into power if they get into power?
Yes, I do. Why shouldn’t I? Why would I even want that risk?
There’s already an ongoing transgender genocide in the U.S. caused in great part by Republicans. Why would I want to make that worse?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_genocide#United_States
Show me where anyone is threatening internment camps for gay people.
The Latino thing is going to be the exact same thing that all 4 of the last sitting presidents did, but you’re going to act like it’s worse when someone red is in charge.
Go make another account, this one is getting blocked en masse.
Good, I’d rather not talk to people who settle their differences of opinion by stamping their feet and plugging their ears.
Link?
omg so true, esp on the OG Lemmy instance, where even the admins/creators of Lemmy on there are tankies.
That feeling when you get banned for mentioning Russian war crimes in Ukraine.
The pain of having to walk on eggshells just in case some admins decide to have a power mod day.
Ate an instance wide ban for saying democratic republics are, by definition, a form of democracy 🤷♂️
republics are, by definition, a form of democracy
I suppose that makes the DPRK a democracy?
You really thought you had something there, huh?
Just saying your point doesn’t hold up
Russia isn’t even leftist? It’s oil oligarchy and kleptocracy. They love authoritarianism, they don’t give a shit about economics.
Vatniks don’t care about anything but Russian nationalism.
That feeling when you get banned from fediverse@lemmy.world and other communities (moderator log: “commie”) for warning about bad faith actors among those spending their entire online political discourse complaining about tankies
Probably should have said Putinism war crimes instead. Everyone would agree to this.
You mean lemmy.ml?
Yes
Now, I don’t like violence. But even I can see that there’s a difference between violence waged for imperialism and violence waged against imperialism.
And you can see the difference too. That’s why Obama and Biden always say that their wars are being waged “for freedom”. That’s why you accept the violence of historical revolutions like the American Revolution.
The problem is, Obama and Biden are lying when they say their wars are for freedom. Their wars are for profit and control.
Tankies
Still have yet to see more than a lone tankie on any thread
Plenty of people vaguely gesturing at lemmy.ml for some reason thiugh
I’d upvote the meme if it wasn’t also controversial to criticize all war criminals, including both those at the top and the bottom.
Edit: For a source, see people in this thread rushing to argue and feel called out when someone criticizes “all forms of imperialism”, including the Western ones.
“Let’s criticise everything.”
I mean there is a difference, and hearing “let’s criticise joe biden” after hearing about russia killing half a million people gets daunting in the long run. It feels like a new form of whataboutism.
Sure we should criticise all bad things, but I don’t really feel we are not criticising the west, quite the opposite. China, NK, Iran (Russia starts to get some, but not enough IMO) not so much.
What about Morocco? Mauretania, Kirgizistan or Libya? Or should we only have criticism for modern societies?
I’m open for discussion of course.
The usa is a giant military empire that literally indoctrinates children with flag swearing cultism stuff. Living in a world dominated by those fucks, who actively undermine the rules based order and refuse to rattify critical treaties/sabotage other treaties (e.g. sea floor resource stuff) is extremely stressful.
In my country, allegedly a democracy, the usa forced our government to secretly sign a trade deal that lets US companies sue our government… directly undermining sovereignty.
It sucks dude, we all fucking hate the usa because they ruin everything. I wouldn’t want to live next to Russia but they’re not fucking shit up over here so forgive me if I bitch about the dominant military empire that literally owns parts of where I live and makes us a target in war.
So you live in some country that doesn’t have a name?
Also, I mean this is whataboutisl at its finest. We all know west does bad things, but you know what? Russia is way worse. NK is way worse. China is way worse. Iran is way worse. But guess all you have is a personnal hatred for one and and only one specific country.
Iran has never hurt me, China has never hurt me, never roped the country into an illegal war that left half my highschool mates broken meth addicts, Russia has never hurt me. Idk what to tell you. Empires are evil, necessarily. The usa is the inheritor of the British legacy, they export war and exploitation. I’m sure if Putin led such an empire it would also be ugly, I’d prefer a more balanced world.
Tbh China seems like a sort of bad neighbour (are there states which are good neighbours?) but they seem to generally be in favour of institutions like UN and they don’t militarise the shit out of the world. They’re a better trade partner than the usa.
Oh, but you see, it’s not about you sweetie.
They all kill mindlessly, go there and see for yourself, person from un nameable country.
… Um ok? And the usa doesn’t? Isn’t it like number 1 for imprisoned population on the planet? Ultimately though I can’t judge countries by their domestic situation, because that’s not something I can do anything about.
What I can judge countries by is how they destabilise the world and the ideology they export. The USA enforced, often extremely violently, a deeply exploitative world order which has effects locally for everyone. If Putin executes some dissidents then that is tragic, it is not however a globally significant issue. Something like the usa starting the war on drugs, strong arming nations into imprisoning or executing significant portions of disadvantaged populations is.
Or the usa couping governments left, right, and centre to maintain an exploitative resource extraction international order. Which destabilised the globe and oppresses millions is.
You might say “Iran would do that too!” but a) they haven’t and b) you’re guessing. Very few nations have ever behaved as badly as the usa/britain/france/spain. The others have chilled out, the usa hasn’t.
You’re doing the whataboutism again !
It’s almost as you copy paste that stuff… Hmmm maybe you’re not from “un nameable country” after all?
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The Uyghur genocide is just one, in the 40 last years, before that it’s even worse. What a nice dictatorship.
You are such clowns.
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When China kills it’s only sparkling death, not real murder.
The folks on the top bombed the middle east, and killed a lot of people.
As someone who lives there, the choice is an easy one.
And the Soviets invaded Afghanistan with flowers and love, right??
i mean afghani society was better off before the us swooped in to destroy it after the soviet era
can’t have all that progress around that much oil
i mean afghani society was better off before the us swooped in to destroy it after the soviet era
can’t have all that progress around that much oil
The US swooped in to destroy Afghanistan after the Soviet era.
Afghanistan having strategic value because of oil.
Jesus Christ.
And people wonder why I don’t treat tankie history takes seriously.
EDIT: No, no, please, downvoters, inform me as to the history of Afghanistan’s booming oil industry.
oh yeah the us destroyed the middle east and former socialist countries for democracy, my bad.
So you’re doubling down on oil in Afghanistan?
reread the post you are responding to
No u
No, no, please, downvoters, inform me as to the history of Afghanistan’s booming oil industry.
No one said it was due to a booming oil industry, but it was because of oil, I’m not sure how you’re not aware of this.
Reporting at the time: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/23/afghanistan.terrorism11
The article doesn’t really dismiss the argument even if the initial paragraphs make it seem like it, it just concludes that it seems unlikely to reach a point where the US could leverage the influence on a future local government, which is true but does not exclude/invalidate the previous proposition
Soviet Union fell decades ago. Israel is comitting mass murder with America’s blessing right now.
And Russia invaded Ukraine with flowers and love, right?
Far as I know Putin didn’t invade Ukraine because of the Soviet Union, is mostly because he’s a little shit.
Two ex-Soviet countries are fighting about how to split the inheritance. Hardly suprising.
No no you’re right, America bad, Russia China good!
The Soviets invaded Afghanistan, a bordering country, after the USA had armed radical theocratic militias with modern weapons. And whatever they did in Afghanistan pales in comparison with US actions in non-neighboring Vietnam. If you want to see the true impact of the USSR in central-asian countries vs that of the west, why don’t you compare the Human Development Index of Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan (ex-Soviet republics) to that of Pakistan (ex-English colony).
It’s not a “whose worse” competition, but you tankies can’t seem to accept that countries other than the us also do and did bad shit. It’s all whataboutism with you.
Nobody in this thread is denying what the us has done, nor celebrating it. But keep on telling us what a nice guy Stalin was!
but you tankies
There we go, the generic word to refer to everyone who doesn’t uncritically peddle anti-communist discourse.
you tankies can’t seem to accept that countries other than the us also do and did bad shit.
But keep on telling us what a nice guy Stalin was!
I’m not a Stalinist. The great terror was terrible, unjustified, and overall a disaster. The collectivisation policy led to chaos and hunger. The democratic functioning of Soviets was seriously undermined. It’s just, as much as you probably don’t consider that the whole existence of the UK as a country is illegitimate as a consequence of its colonialist history, I don’t consider that the USSR as a whole should have been dismantled, and I consider that its overall impact on the world was positive, especially comparing it to what was before and to what came after.
That’s only because you know nothing about the history of the others, and they gave even less of a shit back then.
Istanbul wasn’t “bombed” since Mehmet the 2nd and turkey is doing the same with the Kurds right now. So…
Edit: Holy shit. Going through your history made me want to take a shower.
whatever makes you feel better after supporting mass murder.
And if you lived in Tibet, Taiwan, Korea, etc, you’d probably not be super into the folks on the bottom.
They both killed a lot of people. Choose neither. Don’t wish that death upon strangers.
The only country actually running over people with tanks is Israel and does it with the unconditional support of the US
Liberals as always don’t see Arabs as people. Don’t you dare come asking for our votes.
And Hamas doesn’t see LGBT people as people. Liberals don’t want to murder me for the way I was created.
So if I understand correctly, all 2.5 million in Gaza over 40% children deserve to be slaughtered in the most cruel way possible? Did you even watch the doctor’s testimony?
Edit: Also no one is asking you to vote for Hamas. Hamas is not on the ballot. And despite the pinkwashing Israel is a fascist racist country.
Oh I will absolutely denounce Israeli wartime tactics as excessive, as well as call their settlements illegal. The question is whether you will likewise denounce Hamas as terrorists, or will you lift them up as freedom fighters?
I’m not. I’m saying both are bad. The others mass murder too. Choosing them out of spite for the first is wishing a similar mass death on someone else. You’d be as guilty of those deaths as liberal voters are for yours.
How very republican of you.
I’m not am American. How can I be a Republican?
By only caring of things when they affect you.
I could say the same about you. Do you care about the mass murders Obama and Biden has comitted?
Who said anything about a choice?
Solidarity forever
I’m not sure if you could apply to all of them… because, I’m not sure what Kim Jong Un would be doing in the middle east… That would definitely be an interesting one but, that at least applies to Stalin too, it didn’t last long, but Stalin absolutely steamrolled Iran there for a bit.
If you wanna know “what would happen” to central-asian countries under soviet rule, you can, well, look at central-asian countries under soviet rule, such as Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan, lightyears away in terms of progress from other central-asian countries with a history of western colonialism like Pakistan.
