WHAT
- Former U.S. President Donald J. Trump was shot at a rally in PA.
TRUMPS STATEMENT
“I want to thank The United States Secret Service, and all of Law Enforcement, for their rapid response on the shooting that just took place in Butler, Pennsylvania. Most importantly, I want to extend my condolences to the family of the person at the Rally who was killed, and also to the family of another person that was badly injured. It is incredible that such an act can take place in our Country. Nothing is known at this time about the shooter, who is now dead. I was shot with a bullet that pierced the upper part of my right ear. I knew immediately that something was wrong in that I heard a whizzing sound, shots, and immediately felt the bullet ripping through the skin. Much bleeding took place, so I realized then what was happening. GOD BLESS AMERICA!”
WHAT WE THINK WE KNOW SO FAR
- gunman is dead
- Trump “is fine”
- one attendee is dead
- another attendee is in critical condition
News Sources
- CNN - Trump rushed off stage after shooting at Pennsylvania rally
- AP News - Live updates: Shooting at Trump rally is being investigated as assassination attempt, AP sources say
- The Hill - George W. Bush condemns ‘cowardly attack’ at Trump rally
- Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) on Xitter - video interview with witness who tried to warn police before shooting happened
- Sky News - Gunshots reportedly fired at Donald Trump rally - as former president rushed off stage (Article confirms one rally attendee dead)
- Reuters - Biden says he is grateful to hear Trump is safe, has been briefed on shooting
- OAlexanderDK on Xitter - The shooter was on a roof approximately 125m or 400ft from where Trump was standing.
- JakeMRosen on Xitter - An emergency room doctor I spoke with tried to save someone’s life in the crowd
Do not advocate or celebrate violence, please. Comments advocating violence will be deleted and bans will be issued.
Also, please avoid promoting conspiracies. Discussing current events is fine but suggesting things like “it’s a false flag” without evidence is spreading a conspiracy.
A reminder, he incited people Jan 6th which resulted in deaths.
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And instead we got a guarantee of actual fascism in America. This was a stupid, selfish move.
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Now a single deranged person forced that path in history instead of letting democracy runs its course.
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The post in question was removed for Celebrating Violence. Please note previous user comment for context.
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The comment in question was removed for celebrating and advocating violence, which violates lemmy.world Server Terms of Service
That’s not a justification for more violence, two wrongs don’t make a right. He was wrong for doing what he did and this is wrong as well. This is because political violence in it’s entirety is wrong. Jesus, do people not have principles anymore? Seeing all the supposedly moral people turn into Q anon level conspiracy theorists who condone violence is depressing.
two wrongs don’t make a right.
You’re right. But let me tell you all about the sympathy I have for him:
.
That’s about it.
Let us take this as a reminder for everyone concerned with their own safety in a fascist state.
Guns wont do shit for you unless you regularly practice your marksmanship and keep your equipment in good condition.
A fascist exercised and practiced marksmanship today, did you, dear reader?
I don’t have any sympathy for him either, but that’s still not a reason to abandon my principles and start cheering for political violence
Why do you keep saying that when I didn’t?
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I’m not cheering for political violence
I’m not saying that you are, I’m just pointing out that, in general, lack of sympathy doesn’t justify political violence. We’re in agreement here.
That’s when you say I will happily read their obituary
Tell me, should we have turned the other cheek during WWII? Two wrongs don’t make a right after all, right?
We didn’t join WWII because the Nazis were bad, we joined because Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and then Hitler declared war on the US.
Exactly, should’ve just turned the other cheek, right?
Really? You don’t realize that the US didn’t join a war that started in 1939 until 1941 when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor … so was only part of the war for less than 4 years?
Wow!
You inferred something about Nazis, and now what you’re saying makes no sense as a response to what I’ve been asking you.
I’ll put it more clearly so you can actually give an answer: When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, you’re saying we should’ve turned the other cheek?
No, I’m just pointing out that your comparison is flawed. We didn’t know about the Holocaust until the war was almost over. The Soviets were the first to discover and liberate the camps back in 1944 (too bad they ended up having their own brutal camps) and the Americans liberated the first camp they discovered (Ohrdruf) in April 1945… the war in Europe was over in a month. That’s when the then general Eisenhower ordered the American soldiers to find the other camps, free the captives, and take pictures of everything they came across so Nazi crimes can be thoroughly documented and the American public can be made aware of them.
My point is that we didn’t intervene in the war because of what the Nazis were doing like you seem to imply, we intervened because we got attacked and declared war on.
We didn’t know about the Holocaust until the war was almost over.
It wasn’t confirmed until the war was nearly over. But even before then we knew the Axis powers were slaughtering people while they conquered Europe.
technically two negatives multiplied does.
I didn’t say it was. You just put those words in my mouth.
A wrong makes a right if it prevents many many horrible wrongs in the future.
The ends don’t justify the means politics, that’s how you end up with terrorism, tyrannical governments, and atrocities. I’m all for bringing Trump to justice, but it has be done through civil and democratic means via the established criminal justice system. If Trump goes through trial and is found guilty, which has already happened for one of his crimes, then our criminal justice system will punish him accordingly. If the punishments aren’t deemed harsh enough then we reform our punitive laws. We can’t have self righteous assholes going on terrorism crusades assassinating political candidates they don’t like. That’s a sign of a failed state.
Tyrannical governments rise from apathy. The final governmental check is its people.
True, which is why now is the most important time to condemn political violence, get people politically active, and vote to keep the fascist wannabes out of power.
So you’re telling me conservatives will realize this has gone to far and tell everyone to remain calm and peaceful?
The reasonable conservatives have already jumped off ship a long time ago and are now mostly either apolitical, independent, disenfranchised Democrat, or still a minority Republican opposing Trump. The only ones left that support Trump are his cult, and they will never see reason. However, we can’t get rid them with violence. It’s like what America tried to do with the Taliban or Israel is trying to do now with Hamas or what Saudi Arabia has tried to do with the Houthis, you can’t use violence to get rid of ideologies. The way to get rid of ideologies is to make them irrelevant. This can happen either by defeating them in democratic elections or using their track records to delegitimatize them or ignoring them or providing better alternatives or whatever. Political violence will only fuel them, and that is something I don’t want to see.
Mhmm. Where exactly do you draw the line regarding use of force as a preventative measure?
When it’s used as a means to achieve power in a democracy. Normalizing violence is not okay in general, but especially during democratic elections, and this applies to everybody regardless of who does it.
Ikr!
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one wrong plus another wrong, generally seems to overthrow most rights throughout the history of man kind.
I’m not sure what to do with this information, but it’s present.
If by rights you mean you human rights then normalized widespread violence tends to do that, that’s the whole reason why tyranny isn’t exactly good.
if by wrongs you mean human wrongs, then i have no idea what you’re talking about.
What?
same, you and me both.
That’s the wild thing.
This is a “Oh no what will Cheeto say to start a riot?”
This shit was never here before because it’s likely CYA mode for Lemmy because feds could come sniffing here if copycat incidents occur.
bro the feds are already sniffing lemmy you think they arent?
They’re sniffing lemmy just like their sniffing literally every other social media platform right now.
Is it not actually called the fed…averse…
Oh so that’s why my official Lemmy moderator paycheck comes from the FBI?
(This is a joke, we are not paid)
the M stands for Money :)
fed i verse.
Federal investigation universe. Checkmate.
There is a difference between background-level bulk sniffing and someone-here-maybe-incited-violence targeted sniffing. The former is data collection, which is passive in the form practiced by “the feds”. The latter is data connection, putting effort into connecting a subset of the data that has been collected to form a story. Data connections need a framing, a nucleation seed, an impetus for why the feds might think such a connection is interesting or relevant or worth adding to their story about a larger incident. Collecting data is cheap and done in bulk, partly because it can be done passively and partly because the US govt paid a lot of money on storage and collection mechanisms. Connecting data is something that requires a lot more time, effort, patience, and vetting to make sure you are doing it right.
Or you can give the job to generative AI and hope it doesn’t hallucinate that someone innocent is guilty; with a large enough data pool (ie the internet, reality, what-have-you) it’s possible to select a misleading subset to support whatever hallucination you want.
It’s easy to do wrong, which is exactly why you don’t want the feds sniffing around. Especially now that they have the tools to automate doing it wrong, and might not know how to use them yet.
yeah obviously, but it’s all the same at the end of the day. And they definitely have people actively sniffing around social media posts surrounding this at the moment.
Or all the domestic violence
And his cult still defends the insurrectionists.
Unless it’s more convenient to call them Antifa.
Two wrongs do not make a right though.
But 3 rights make a left
But 1 click on a windage knob would have.
This is funnier retrospectively because apparently this fucking dumbass wasn’t even using an optic. insanity
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Why not? Isnt that what americans claim the second amendment is for?Prevent fascism?
Sic semper tyrannis.
Communism, not Fascism, or to protect workers’ rights if you go back far enough. We only got involved in fighting fascism because we were drawn into the war, otherwise it’s never been that big of an issue to Americans and many schools aren’t even allowed to teach about it anymore because “kids shouldn’t have to feel bad about something like that” or whatever excuses the far right is currently using to prevent their schools from teaching about Anne Frank, concentration camps, slavery, anything else they want to implement themselves.
Lemmy users when they can’t advocate violence:
young_guy_straining.jpg
Advocating for violence to prevent a fascist from abolishing the democracy is the only acceptable violence. Sometimes a democracy has to be protected violently if it is too weak to protect itself. Trump allies always say its why they have the second amendment. Now that it is used against them they cry about it.
Violence is rarely good for anything as we have seen it just now. It would be better even if this guy shot at Biden that’s how counterproductive it is.
Modern problems aren’t solved with blood but with marketing. You cannot kill an idea but you can ridicule it
You cannot just eradicate everyone who opposes you. China tried, Soviets too. Now they have something vastly better - troll farms.
Modern problems aren’t solved with blood but with marketing.
Tell that to the Ukrainians and the Palestinians. I know you want this to be the case, but you couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.
In both cases they didn’t solve anything and only made things worse for themselves
You’re right, better to allow a violent oppressor to slowly eradicate your people than attempt to free or defend yourself by whatever means necessary…
Eh I think you guys see what you want to see in my comment. I was talking about Russia. putin attacked Ukraine, it was insane in any case and what did he got out of it really?
The violence on Ukraine was just plain stupid.
I am kinda surprised and amused you take me for some pacifist goodie two shoes, other cheek blah blah. funny from my pov. Idk how you extracted that from my comment, I bet you will now continue to argue with something that doesn’t exist. My congratulations
Not sure what you mean, but Ukraine and Zelensky have been marketing themselves all over the place. They need all the help they can get, and they are doing whatever they can to boost support. So far pootin hasn’t achieved his goals so it’s working.
Appeasement of an aggressor never works. History has taught this over and over and over again. We still haven’t learned I see. I’m mainly talking about Ukraine. Palestine is a lot more complex.
Your last point is actually not a bad analysis - but it is missing that the ones operating their propaganda and troll farms already also control the violence monopoly. And both entities also use violence where they deem it practical.
Lol how kind of you, thank you I guess
Everybody thinks their form of violence is the only acceptable violence.
The paradox of tolerance is only a paradox if you don’t believe in the social contract.
Beliefs that violate the social contract deserve no protection under it.
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Was it wrong when Trump triggered Jan 6 with his calls for violence?
If yes, why do you get to call for violence?
If no, you should read more about the ramifications of Jan 6
This sub has some crazy censorship. I’m pretty sure it’s all right-wing mods.
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The user in question was banned and comments were removed for ban evasion. The mod log is public.
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Please do not repost removed comments. If you want to share a screenshot or quote, please do so in a DM to a mod.
So there is no available form of public accountability for comments? I have had mixed experiences in the past with DM-ing mods and I do not trust private communications.
Didn’t know this was the “othe r/ place” now…but… Okay.
This community can be whatever it wants to be. If you want to advocate for violence you are free to do that elsewhere in the fediverse. Just not here.
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In this context, the comment appears to be advocating specific violence.
Please do not repost removed comments. You can link to the comment or mod log if there is a question about a specific moderation decision.
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I’m still here I see. Here’s the precious source since I’m full of shit.
NEW YORK — The leader of a conservative think tank orchestrating plans for a massive overhaul of the federal government in the event of a Republican presidential win said that the country is in the midst of a “second American Revolution” that will be bloodless “if the left allows it to be.”
Why, exactly, should we simply lie over and do nothing? How is calling for violence over this bad?
He said Monday’s decision — which gives presidents broad immunity from prosecution — is “vital” to ensure a president won’t have to “second guess, triple guess every decision they’re making in their official capacity.”
😬😬😬
Yeah, last thing I want is for the president to have to think through their decisions.
Original comment was removed for violating Lemmy’s content policy, and subsequent comment was removed for reposting the original.
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The post in question was removed for advocating violence. The mod log is public, including the original content, so it is not necessary to repost a removed comment for transparency.
spreading a conspiracy
I know this is off-topic, but can we please go back to saying “conspiracy theory”? Conspiracy and conspiracy theories are not the same. There are actual conspiracies (a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful) , and there are theories of conspiracies. They should not be confused.
Surprised you’re not already banned just for the c-word. I mean, if someone crashes their car through a storefront, I could speculate without evidence that the driver was excessively old, young, drunk, or just plain stupid and it’s left up to the reader to take my comment with a grain of salt, but if I so much as entertain the possibility of this shooting being anything besides what is being reported by official channels, I must be silenced.
“no actual discussion allowed” got it
If the only way you can discuss an assassination is by advocating for additional violence and pushing lies, then I guess not?
“hey guys don’t politicize an attempted political assassination”
Not really what I said at all. “Hey guys, don’t make stuff up, please rely on credible sources, and don’t advocate for violence”.
Or, in other words: follow the rules we’ve always had in place
Advocating for, or not advocating for, violence is a political stance. Many people defend Israel’s ongoing genocide and are not blocked from doing so. That doesn’t feel like the rules being consistently enforced. The people speculating on whether or not this is staged have access to the same information as everyone else, and in the spirit of true discourse, if it was seen to be false you could figure that out by discussion rather than censorship.
.
Should I start reporting every comment that doesn’t have sources? 😂😂
I don’t personally think it was staged, but be honest … it’s not like you delete every single comment that doesn’t have sources …
You are limiting discussion to centrist viewpoints, centrism caters towards permissive attitudes towards fascism. You know this.
pushing lies
How did you determine what was true in this situation and what was false? I am curious about your methodology.
True: confirmed information. False: unconfirmed information of a speculative nature. Do you see a specific issue you disagree with or are you just trying to argue?
You are just moving the problem around via definitions not actually saying what method you used to know exactly what happened yesterday.
All I asked is how you arrived at the truth. Did you see evidence that the general public didn’t? Because what I am seeing is you all are so absolutely certain you have literally compared it to Covid misinformation. Amazing, a 30 hour news event is so well understood you can compare our knowledge of it to the single most studied virus in human history months after a new variant had appeared.
It is not unreasonable how you were able to obtain information the rest of us apparently do not have and how you were able to eliminate all other alternatives so quickly.
How do you spread a conspiracy? I think you mean speculation.
My friend, you know exactly what they mean. Don’t push a “well maybe somebody set it up because …” theory unless you have facts to back it up.
I take issue with inaccurate language. This is how trains crash. A conspiracy is where 2 or more people plan something in secret. A conspiracy theory is where an outsider speculates about the nature of such plans. Also, without wanting to speculate myself, logically it was either a lone actor or a group conspiring, since it clearly wasn’t publicised in advance. I personally doubt it was some grand conspiracy.
Obviously someone set this up, bullets don’t just appear out of nowhere. It may have just been the gunman who acted entirely alone. We have no evidence that anyone worked with the gunman but what’s that saying about the absence of evidence?
Yeah but there’s also no evidence that this was anything other than a single person acting on their own. Most loan shooters are actually loners.
The issue is the volume of comments about this being faked entirely or a false flag.
You can’t use the English language in an openly misleading fashion and expect that people are going to go along with it, not in a situation like this. The expression “someone set this up” clearly implies the existence of a second person.
What made you think that another person is involved? Nothing. If we were to look at historical evidence, we would find that a lot of these situations are done by so-called lone wolf attackers. So if we’re going to blindly speculate, we should at least be consistent with historical evidence, and we should certainly speak unambiguously.
I would like facts that back up you claim to know what your “friend” was thinking
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Alright, let’s get it out ahead of time, since I’m already seeing this:
It’s probably not staged. Trump reacts quickly - the fuck kind of timing you think that bloated potato has? To lift his hand to his ear just as the gunshot rings out? And the idea that the shooter grazed him on purpose is, likewise, absurd. The kind of risk that would entail, to just nick his ear?
Whether the shooter was insane or politically motivated, this is a real event.
I said this in another one of these threads- it is not at all outlandish to think that someone unhinged with a gun would see the threat of a fascist dictator and decide to do something about it.
Yeah, I remember my grandfather telling the story of how Hitler held a speech at a Stadium that was visible from his attic window, and his biggest regret was, that he did not have a machinegun to take him and the other Nazi officials with him out. The US has enough guns and desperation for someone to attempt this, definitely.
What year was that?
I don’t remember him mentioning the exact year, it’s been ages and I was a child still when he was still alive, but I know it was before the Machtergreifung, because he told it as having been a rally during an election campaign, eerily fitting, I guess.
I’m not sure it would even take someone unhinged.
The right has been agitating for stochastic terrorism for about sixteen god damn years. Well, they got it.
It’s likely a good thing the guy missed. Trump being assassinated might just kick off the open violence that has been brewing. Still might, but it’ll depend on the next couple of days. If that dude turns out to be a left-winger, and Trump makes no attempt to stop it, I could see things getting very, very ugly.
If that dude turns out to be a left-winger
That dude’s political leaning will turn out to be whatever the news we prefer says he was.
Reports are coming in that he was a registered republican, but had donated to dems once in the past. He was only 20 so not a lot of political history to go on.
it happens a lot more than you would think throughout american history, sometimes with guns, sometimes without. Obama had 8 attempts throughout his terms in office. Biden has had one so far, trump has had a few, nothing more significant than obama though, except for maybe being shot, just barely.
Thank you. And fuck the idiots spouting off with the “staged” nonsense. The time to believe something is staged is when you have evidence that it was.
People are obviously on high alert, considering how far Trump is willing to go given Jan 6th. From the Reichstag fire to the Russian apartment bombings, such events manufactured or actual have profound impact on public perception and action. Naomi Klein’s (not to be confused with the nut job Naomi Wolf) The Shock Doctrine details this well.
No sign this was a false flag, but holy fuck does it have terrible implications.
Trump’s entire persona is built on lies, it shouldn’t be a surprise that it’s many people’s first thought.
But it shouldn’t be. He shows no signs - cognitively speaking - of being capable of putting something like this together as a stage-managed event, and all of his past stage-managed events have been shitshows because he micromanages everything and he’s incompetent.
Oh, it’s all tongue-in-cheek, and yet: quid pro quo.
i mean honestly, it’s scary, but it’s also not a good time to be an american right now, from the immunity rulling to the jan 6th delays, and all the other bullshit going on, things seem to be getting vastly more interesting now than they were just a few months ago.
I don’t doubt the shooter was genuinely trying to kill him. But I also think there are an unprecedented number of Republicans and Democrats who would be secretly relieved if their own party’s candidate were assassinated.
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Two for the price of one! Nah real talk biden sucks but he doesn’t deserve to get assassinated.
It’s a very common gut reaction to assume something like this has to be “staged”, I said it in the other thread in some discussions: It’s understandable to have it as this feeling. But everyone who feels that way: take a breath, remember the world is much more chaotic and much less controlled than you think, you don’t have to think of yourself as stupid for thinking it, but wait for more information to come out and be ready to give it up then.
Reacting properly to this new reality is much more important, than trying to adjust reality to fit an emotion. It’s human to do that, react instinctively in a first gut reaction, but it is also human to be able to let go of that.
In the spirit of not promoting violence, I’d like to promote the alternative of the Alex Jones treatment. Gaslight the fucker and set a conspiracy in motion to hound him the rest of his days.
I agree. We’re all just processing this and should probably take a break and come back when there is more info and we can think critically. That said, this is very scary, like, I feel like my physical safety is at risk because of this. So, not knowing what others are going through, I’m going to have some compassion for any initial reactions. People are having these same discussions face to face right now but not everyone can do that and may need to.
the way i like to look at it, is that it doesn’t matter whether it was staged or not, it still happened. People still died, people still evacuated, trump still got shot, none of that changes.
If it does, you’re doing a conspiracy theory, and you should stop.
I think it absolutely does matter for the political conclusions.
But at the very least it is far to early to get into these conspiracies, even if the events had unfolded very differently like the bullets not hitting anywhere close.
However given what we already know and what was caught by dozens of cameras, all the points the conspiracy theorists are coming up with are just insane.
it does inevitably matter, but as of right now, we barely even know who did it, so conspiracies aren’t going to help at all. That was mainly my point behind the comment.
Yeah, a 120 meter shot to graze does not exist. One inch to the right and he’s dead. With wind variables and stuff, the shooter who can reliably pull that off in one shot or volley does not exist.
With a better rifle and a spotter maybe.
Edit. Just want to say I don’t think it’s a false flag in anyway. Just speculating lol
Not how guns work I’m afraid. I wouldn’t trust Olympic shooter with that type of shot at a closer distance.
It is not marvel movie, you don’t go for the head.
Everyone keeps saying it can’t be staged because it was so close.
I just wanted to point out it can be both staged and a successful assassination if the end goal is to point the finger at the left and martyr a polarizing figure.
That’s not staged then. That’s just an inside job.
That’s the same thing …
Staged means they set it up like a movie shoot and nobody was ever in danger.
Ah, okay-- thanks.
It’s probably not staged. Trump reacts quickly - the fuck kind of timing you think that bloated potato has?
it’s absolutely what you would expect the reaction to be. Much like burning your hand on a stove where your brain deals with the situation a lot quicker than you can logically process it, these kinds of injuries can do the same thing. It’s more than likely the people surrounding him that clued him in on it quicker than anything. That’s the one thing you would be prepared to expect.
Yeah, if you’re going to stage a fake assassination, you don’t fire a bullet a couple inches away from a kill shot. It’s crazy how close this was to a successful attempt.
If it was staged, the only feasible way would be that he wasn’t shot at all and all we saw was fake blood. Regardless, I don’t think it was actually staged
Genuinely infurating that the moment anything happens, NeoLibs will just start copying right-wing talking points.
Will or they did? Any examples?
If you check the modlog, before the Mods here started removing them, dozens of commenters said its a false flag, set up by trump.
Here’s a screenshot of it happening on PoliticalMemes. EDIT: Used the proper screenshot. https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/9664605
And here’s some screenshots of the mod logs:
This isn’t getting into the ones on Mastodon and Twitter who also repeated the same Alex Jones level thinking.
EDIT: Weird how I gave proof, they move the goal posts. Give proof, move the goal posts. I’m starting to think they just want an excuse for their weird takes and Q-Anon thinking.
And how do you know they are NeoLibs?
On twitter/Mastodon with 🇺🇦 🇮🇱 in their profiles, and treating any valid criticisms of Biden are actually by Russian bots.
That’s why I consider them NeoLibs.
I see, so you just use the term “NeoLib” to mean “people you disagree with” rather than “people with neoliberal political beliefs”
If it advocates for Neoliberal polices, speaks for Neoliberal polices, defends Neoliberal polices, yeah I do. Take your concern trolling elsewhere. I’m not going to bootlick for Reagan and every president afterwards.
I asked about the ones you quoted.
I love lemm.ee
Yhe mod log is available for all to see. You can even search by username.
Only one ban so far, I think I’m doing good!
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First I’m hearing about the 13 year old.
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If it was staged then they are playing a very risky game. It doesn’t take much error to make a bullet that grazes your ear dome you. It’s basically certain that this wasn’t staged.
It seems far more likely that Trump has some sort of quantum immortality than this being staged. Truly an insane shot to miss so narrowly while still grazing. I get why it makes people scratch their head. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Did you guys hear Richard Simmons died? So sad.
What peeves me is that the right are all clutching their pearls about anyone who says anything other than blind Trump sympathy. Don’t get me wrong, political violence is wrong. But, remember this:
When Paul Pelosi got his face bashed in with a hammer, the right made fun of it. Mocked him. Idk, man.
Fuck. This is probably not going to lead to good things.
If you’re planning to take out an aspiring despot, you better be damn sure of your shot
The great recession, a global pandemic, and now a second American civil war. I want off this train.
Don’t forget the climate change!
*bullet train
They don’t have those in the US. They went with mega highways instead
And a lot of bullets. We have those
Ah. The American bullet train – an outdated and slow train carrying excessive amounts of ammunition!
whaddaya know, I guess we do have bullet trains
Daaaamn
And not a single of those things will matter or be remembered after the great climate collapse.
Guy tries to overthrow the country, and people are worried that someone tried to kill him. What is wrong with this world. If people aren’t trying to kill him we have something to worried about.
The justice system failed to arrest and detain the suspect and keep him imprisoned until charged properly. This isn’t a failure of the people, it is a failure of the government.
I didn’t need this fucking stress on top of everything else. I only hope that the poll bump he’ll get for this is short-lived.
He is going to win. We’ve already been over this. Maybe now you can start the process of coming to terms with what that actually means.
You are not psychic.
I can appreciate where !Riccosuave@lemmy.world is coming from.
I personally feel that 2008 was the tipping point for a lot of people and we’ve been reeling from it ever since.
While things may have been bad before, it really does feel like the intensity has increased dramatically ever since Trump was first elected. These people have become emboldened, and no longer keeping themselves in check. Any sense of decorum and decency are things of the past.
You are welcome to dismiss me as nothing more than an over dramatic doomer, but I have a feeling I’m not the only one who feels this way. It’s not about being right or wrong. It’s about being overwhelmed and mentally drained about being able to do anything positive about it.
Anecdotally, I would guess this is part of their motivation for the attempted assassination. They were likely so overwhelmed that they felt the only solution was to try to kill Trump.
And if that’s even remotely true, that’s a fault of society as a whole as much as it is the shooter’s fault.
One way or the other, we are at a pivotal moment in American history; and I’m not just being dramatic. There is a lot on the line for both sides no matter who wins in November.
My analysis isn’t based on extra-sensory perception. I am able to look at the facts as they are presented from a rational, unemotional perspective. It is how I knew Hillary was going to lose in 2016, and it is how I know Biden is going to lose in 2024.
There are no facts presented to you now that can tell you definitively what will happen in November.
You being correct one time does not make you correct this time.
We shall see.
Lol…it sounds like you’re saying that you know all of the answers because you don’t use your emotions when you think…haha
That not how inductive reasoning works. Look into absurdism (philosophy)
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Your cognitive dissonance is strong,
… do you even know what that term means?
Yes, I do. Which is precisely how I know you are engaged in that behavior now. It is a very hard thing to accept that you are living in a country that is going to usher in fascism with thunderous applause. But regardless of how you feel about it, that is what is happening before your very eyes. It is important to be objective about that so you are able to evaluate what you can do to fight back once that becomes necessary.
. It is a very hard thing to accept that you are living in a country that is going to usher in fascism with thunderous applause.
Okay, so you don’t actually know, you just think it means ‘not accepting (what you see as) reality’. Thanks for confirming.
Cognitive dissonance is described as the mental disturbance people feel when their beliefs and actions are inconsistent and contradictory
Here, I’ll give you an example you can perhaps identify with. You spent multiple comments strawmaning my arguments, putting words in my mouth, and gaslighting me for saying Biden had absolutely no chance of victory two days ago.
You then attempted to suggest that I did not care about political violence, and that I was uneducated about important modern historical events in an attempt to delegitimize my points about removing Biden as the nominee.
This is you today:
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I believe the mods were attempting to stop PugJesus and I from engaging in a slap fight, but you see how well that worked out.
PugJesus is like the Ur-Liberal (derogatory)
I don’t know what that means, but he is annoying.
The comment in question contained a personal insult against another user and was removed for incivility. The mod log is public.
Please don’t repost removed comments. You can link to the comment or mod log if you have questions about a particular moderation action. All decisions may be appealed by DMing a mod for additional review.
Also, I am not really seeing a personal insult? Criticism of personal dissonance, yeah, but is that an insult?
How does one link a specific blocked comment in the mod log? I don’t see any way to do this?
I am not sure that you can link to an individual comment, but you can link to the community mod log or the user mod log depending on the circumstance. Or you can link to the individual comment in the thread, even if it has been removed.
It is preferred to reach out to a moderator(s) by direct message, in which case you could include a screen image of the mod log along with your question.
I understand why one may have an interest in asking questions publicly, although it makes is very difficult for mods to respond (unless you tag us). If you are interesting in getting a response, this is perhaps the least efficient way. We are assured to see report, and likely to see a DM in a much more reasonable time.
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This comment was removed for incivility (Rule 1)
You’re being down voted but you’re right. This is the absolute nail in the coffin to seal his win. his culties are going to be mobilised more than ever now.
This event just shows that anything can happen at any moment. Nothing is a sure thing. Not a Trump win, not a Biden win, and not a win for any other candidate who may run.
Biden added: “Jill and I are grateful to the Secret Service for getting him to safety. There’s no place for this kind of violence in America. We must unite as one nation to condemn it,”
I mean this is the world he wants, you can’t dog whistle people to take up arms against tyranny without a comfortable acceptance of the irony pool you are filling. Everyone will try to spin this to their political advantage but the truth is this is the level of political discourse the right has been driving towards.
So, I am fearing this will not only rally all Trump supporters to really vote for and support him extra hard, and get some undecideds to his side for his martyr status, but it might also spark a wave of stochastic terrorism and shootings by some right-wingers acting out, who will want to deliver justice to whatever group they will blame.
There is definitely some danger of this potentially spiraling, not guaranteed, but that will depend on some more potentially chaotic weeks ahead. Stay safe, stay prepared, stay organised.
I bet Trump is perversely happy he got shot. He can be a Real Brave Man, now. How much attention it gets him. How much more clout he believes he will get because he will weasel some political capital out of it. Heaven help us if the shooter was liberal, this man is fine with dog whistling violence and more than a few of his followers are itching to engage in it. It won’t matter one whit how many people have been killed or hurt by right wingers.
Gotta love how people are instantly pulling a QAnon deal of “ITS A FALSE FLAG, FAKE NEWS, NOTHING HAPPENS WITHOUT A GRAND CABAL!”
Somehow Trump is a mastermind of this. The dude who can’t hide stolen files properly, can’t lie on his taxes properly, and loses money on a casino, somehow has the ability to rig a false flag assassination attempt.
Are NeoLibs that so far into the Kool-Aid that Dipshit Trump is also a grandmaster 5D chess player of this, while not being able to string words together? It’s not like he’s ever been a good actor.
“Now Trump’s gonna say Biden tried to kill him.”
He already said that.
“Now Trump’s gonna call for repression of the left.”
He already did that.
“Now they’re gonna say Trump is a martyr.”
They already say that.
“Now the right is gonna get violent with their political opponents.”
They already do that.
“Now the fash are gonna push for an enabling act.”
They already are doing that.
It’s equally frustrating and vindicating that people are waking up to the alarms minorities have been sounding for… decades? Even during 9/11, people were saying this is the start of the end for any form of freedom. Then we had economic crash after crash. Then more rights removed. More drone strikes. More illegal wars.
Then we tried to warn about Trump. No one cared. He won. The people who said he would hurt did get hurt. People acted shocked.
Biden came in. Ignored the people in jail cells, ignored COVID for better polling, refusing the new powers given to him to do anything better for the country at large, and slowly turning into a walking skeleton.
And every single time people have said “Hey this is bad for any form of democracy” people said it was overblown, nothing bad would happen. Then it got worse and worse. Voting didn’t solve most of the issues. Protesting did. And then both parties clamped harder on protestors and increased funding to the militarized police.
Welcome to Weimar Germany, America. People have only warned you for decades. If this doesn’t wake anyone up, then you’ll sleepwalk as you claim ignorance on why you’re “just following orders”.
I bet there will be a retaliatory attack on his Biden
at least. and Kamala just because she’s a black woman.
Why take a chance on Biden getting replaced with a good candidate?
I mean, the right is already committing violence against its enemies, the media just fails to report it as what it is. Instead it’s “lone wolves” and “mental health problems”. Rittenhouse literally shot people on camera and got away with it “because skateboard”.
Daniel Perry murdered someone after driving his car into a crowd and was pardoned because Abbott agreed with his politics.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Garrett_Foster
The right is perfectly fine with violence that supports them.
The fact that he claimed self-defense really goes to show how far the MAGA attitude of being “victimized” goes. Literally plows his car into a crowd of people and then claims self-defense when shooting someone.
well to be fair it’s not unusual to get away scot free after murdering people with your car, that shit happens all the time
He didn’t murder anyone with his car. He drove into a crowd then shot someone.
I doubt it. Something like this already happened before in 2017. A deranged Bernie supporter went to a congressional baseball game and tried to shoot as many Republicans as he could. He ended up killing 6 people. However, despite that, there were no reactionary shootings. It was an isolated incident. I think this will be the same, or at least I hope.
You do realize the Las Vegas shooting was literally like 3 months later, right?
We literally have no idea what Stephen Paddock’s motivation was. The Las Vegas shooting was not a reaction to the congressional shooting
Read your first sentence, then read your second sentence. Then do it again a few more times, and then ask yourself why I would listen to anything you say?
There’s nothing wrong with what I said. You can’t give criminals motives nor can you give different crimes connections based on your personal opinions. The matter of fact here is that despite numerous investigations, we still don’t know why the Las Vegas shooter did what he did. If evidences surfaces that he was indeed motivated and inspired by the congressional shooting that happened shortly prior then we can establish such a connection, but until that happens we can’t.
Please don’t repeat the names of mass shooters.
I disagree, I think their names should be known and their crimes studied. We can’t erase what they did, nor should we. We have to discuss and research these fucked up individuals otherwise how are we going to come up with a solution for the root cause of the issue?
Study them, yes. But that doesn’t require making their names and faces commonplace. Most research is done without broadcasting people’s names and faces to the world. Heck - when I was doing analysis for HHS I wasn’t given anybody’s name or picture at all.
Some of these killers are seeking fame and attention, and by giving it to them we encourage others.
That is a fair point, I’ll keep that in mind.
But giving infamy to that Brock rapist guy is okay right? Just double checking.
Didn’t get change his name recently? The rapist guy named Brock or something?
With the number of shootings that happen in the US… Pointing out a seemingly unrelated incident that occurred months later is ridiculous cherry picking.
