Except some people have disabilities that prevent them from enjoying difficulty in a game. Some people just want the ambiance and story. Some people have reflexes that are not as sharp as they used to be. They should be able to also enjoy this art form as much as others
Eh I’m sorry but I still don’t buy it. Making it a game about ambiance and story makes it a different game, doesn’t it? Every game has a target audience right? Why does it seem like it’s just games like this that get this sort of outrage thrown at it? FPS games have a similar level of entry yet no one is out there demanding they make Counter Strike less twitchy.
Counter strike is a multiplayer game, I’m talking about solo game (and even mp games can have difficulty accessibility options, like Tekken 8 does).
About your target audience thing, I’d love to play dark souls and elden ring for the exploration, awesome music and ambiance but the difficulty and slow paced gameplay always put me off. Or to take the other example of Celeste, some people play it because of the difficulty and fun platforming, but I played it for the story and music and I loved it. Giving accessibility options will help people enjoy their game how they want with close to 0 additional development time cost.
I should say that I appreciate the candid discussion, nice to have a civilized chat on the internet. Also - in the end it wouldn’t really bother me if Fromsoft did implement a simple difficulty slider. I think it’d be a bit more difficult than you are assuming however since it is also a multiplayer game. I guess they could limit the difficulty options to offline players only.
But as a very long time fan, I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out that they have actually gone a long way to addressing the difficulty complaints of their games. ER is their most accessible game and there are a lot of in-game opportunities to customize the amount of difficulty one faces. I could go on and on about it but I’ll leave it at that for now.
I believe a difficulty slider in a game specifically Elden Ring would destroy the game design. Biggest example is my own experience after walking out the starting area seeing and having that horse fella as the first thing I saw and tried to kill for longer than I would like to admit (before going to Google) if there was just a slider to slide down so I could kill that guy I would have never learned how to play the game and explore and kill bosses to level up. Not saying sliders don’t work in ANY game but I just think it would ruin the experience of elden ring.
I mean you could just not use the difficulty slider. I’ve never turned down the difficulty in any game even if I could have, but I don’t begrudge people that do if they’re struggling.
Oh yeah I 100% agree with you! I always try to make sure to point out all the other options available to people if they’re frustrated with difficulty. I think people don’t understand that a lot of the ‘options’ in Fromsoft games are not in menus - they’re baked into the gameplay itself with in-world/lore reasons for doing them. Like how co-op uses a sign instead of a multiplayer interface ‘room’ like most other games.
It is the best thing about Fromsoft games IMO, that everything is a vessel to help tell the story and create more immersion, and a difficulty slider is game-y and creates less immersion (as well as what you said - would ruin the opportunities the difficulty affords in directing pleayers).
All that being said, if they added a slider that would only affect others, the only way it affects me is that I’d be bummed that they didn’t get the great experience that I love about the game. I mean the other person mentioned Celeste which I also really enjoyed and I wasn’t even aware that it had difficulty sliders. So that’s how much they’d affect my enjoyment of the game.
I think ER had a great difficulty design since you could go to other areas to overlevel. But I haven’t played it or the DLC so I can’t really give a specific opinion on the implementation in fromsoft games, I just think that general anti-accessibility statement like the original quote are uninformed and ableist opinions. And you’re welcome for the discussion!
Yeah I see where you’re coming from. I know as a creator it’s really hard to strike a balance between achieving an artistic vision and separating their pride in that from real accessibiliy concerns.
And like I said in my other comment, I cherish the way Fromsoft uses difficulty to direct players and tell stories and I hesitate to want to do anything to water that down. Too many games take the route of making that game for everyone and Fromsoft games are for me that gaming oasis I can escape to.
I think it’d be a bit more difficult than you are assuming however since it is also a multiplayer game. I guess they could limit the difficulty options to offline players only.
For online play, you can just match people who are using the same difficulty, and perhaps disable PVP entirely for Easy difficulty. For everything but PVP, it’s not that big a deal. Seamless Co-Op Mod works with the Easy Mode mod. If modders can make a coherent experience, I’m sure From could. If they wanted to. Which they don’t.
Making it a game about ambiance and story makes it a different game, doesn’t it?
Not really. The experience with the Easy Mode mod in place is pretty much the same. I saw more “You Died” screens on easymode than the typical player sees on regular mode. The only difference is that I didn’t waste my money on Elden Ring by having to give up less than 10% into the game like I did on Bloodborne after 50 hours or so.
Some of us, especially older gamers, just don’t have the reflexes for that type of game. Unfortunately for us, Fromsoft writes GREAT stories and Let’sPlays are still kinda boring.
Some of us, especially older gamers, just don’t have the reflexes for that type of game.
I hear what you’re saying, but to be fair, younger players don’t start out with those reflexes either. It’s probably harder for older players, but I’m not convinced it’s that much more of a challenge that it’s not worth trying. Maybe it’s my lack of perspective talking, but I’m willing to bet that if older folks can learn to play a guitar or code, they could learn to play Elden Ring given the same amount of practice and motivation.
It took me over 6 hours total just to learn to parry, and even then I’d say my success rate is still only like 60% at best. I learned to do it for 1 specific DLC boss, and that was after 200 hours in the base game without using once, so I had to completely abandon my muscle memory. But man, the one run I managed to pull off where I hit just enough parries to make it out alive by the skin of my teeth, it was beautiful. I recorded it, and watching it back is like watching a dance. (Like a dancer with two left feet, but still, lol)
Unfortunately for us, Fromsoft writes GREAT stories and Let’sPlays are still kinda boring.
I don’t normally watch lets plays anymore either, but this one really hooked me. Gray and Lark both have a lot of charisma and bounce off of each other really well since they’re childhood friends. The stories they tell are entertaining enough that, for the first time ever, I decided to watch a livestream (instead of the edited version I linked).
Vaati Vidya also has a lot of good videos if you just want the raw lore.
I hear what you’re saying, but to be fair, younger players don’t start out with those reflexes either. It’s probably harder for older players, but I’m not convinced it’s that much more of a challenge that it’s not worth trying
It’s not about the reflexes, though. It’s that they have opted to take actions that make the game unenjoyable for a significant number of gamers despite it having no positive benefit for ANY gamer.
And much of my Letsplay complaints weren’t about Elden Ring. I mod that. I don’t have the tools to mod Bloodborne, a game I otherwise would like more than Elden Ring because of its storyline.
There are plenty of videos showing people beating the game using one hand with disability controllers as well as entirely with voice controls or controllers that were specifically designed to be as stupid as possible (like bananas).
It’s an RPG, if you want the game to be easier then level up your character to have adequate HP/defense/attack power. Not enough? Upgrade your weapons/shield. Still not enough? You can summon two whole extra players to do all the work for you.
Except some people have disabilities that prevent them from enjoying difficulty in a game. Some people just want the ambiance and story. Some people have reflexes that are not as sharp as they used to be. They should be able to also enjoy this art form as much as others
Eh I’m sorry but I still don’t buy it. Making it a game about ambiance and story makes it a different game, doesn’t it? Every game has a target audience right? Why does it seem like it’s just games like this that get this sort of outrage thrown at it? FPS games have a similar level of entry yet no one is out there demanding they make Counter Strike less twitchy.
Counter strike is a multiplayer game, I’m talking about solo game (and even mp games can have difficulty accessibility options, like Tekken 8 does). About your target audience thing, I’d love to play dark souls and elden ring for the exploration, awesome music and ambiance but the difficulty and slow paced gameplay always put me off. Or to take the other example of Celeste, some people play it because of the difficulty and fun platforming, but I played it for the story and music and I loved it. Giving accessibility options will help people enjoy their game how they want with close to 0 additional development time cost.
I should say that I appreciate the candid discussion, nice to have a civilized chat on the internet. Also - in the end it wouldn’t really bother me if Fromsoft did implement a simple difficulty slider. I think it’d be a bit more difficult than you are assuming however since it is also a multiplayer game. I guess they could limit the difficulty options to offline players only.
But as a very long time fan, I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out that they have actually gone a long way to addressing the difficulty complaints of their games. ER is their most accessible game and there are a lot of in-game opportunities to customize the amount of difficulty one faces. I could go on and on about it but I’ll leave it at that for now.
I believe a difficulty slider in a game specifically Elden Ring would destroy the game design. Biggest example is my own experience after walking out the starting area seeing and having that horse fella as the first thing I saw and tried to kill for longer than I would like to admit (before going to Google) if there was just a slider to slide down so I could kill that guy I would have never learned how to play the game and explore and kill bosses to level up. Not saying sliders don’t work in ANY game but I just think it would ruin the experience of elden ring.
I mean you could just not use the difficulty slider. I’ve never turned down the difficulty in any game even if I could have, but I don’t begrudge people that do if they’re struggling.
Oh yeah I 100% agree with you! I always try to make sure to point out all the other options available to people if they’re frustrated with difficulty. I think people don’t understand that a lot of the ‘options’ in Fromsoft games are not in menus - they’re baked into the gameplay itself with in-world/lore reasons for doing them. Like how co-op uses a sign instead of a multiplayer interface ‘room’ like most other games.
It is the best thing about Fromsoft games IMO, that everything is a vessel to help tell the story and create more immersion, and a difficulty slider is game-y and creates less immersion (as well as what you said - would ruin the opportunities the difficulty affords in directing pleayers).
All that being said, if they added a slider that would only affect others, the only way it affects me is that I’d be bummed that they didn’t get the great experience that I love about the game. I mean the other person mentioned Celeste which I also really enjoyed and I wasn’t even aware that it had difficulty sliders. So that’s how much they’d affect my enjoyment of the game.
I think ER had a great difficulty design since you could go to other areas to overlevel. But I haven’t played it or the DLC so I can’t really give a specific opinion on the implementation in fromsoft games, I just think that general anti-accessibility statement like the original quote are uninformed and ableist opinions. And you’re welcome for the discussion!
Yeah I see where you’re coming from. I know as a creator it’s really hard to strike a balance between achieving an artistic vision and separating their pride in that from real accessibiliy concerns.
And like I said in my other comment, I cherish the way Fromsoft uses difficulty to direct players and tell stories and I hesitate to want to do anything to water that down. Too many games take the route of making that game for everyone and Fromsoft games are for me that gaming oasis I can escape to.
For online play, you can just match people who are using the same difficulty, and perhaps disable PVP entirely for Easy difficulty. For everything but PVP, it’s not that big a deal. Seamless Co-Op Mod works with the Easy Mode mod. If modders can make a coherent experience, I’m sure From could. If they wanted to. Which they don’t.
Not really. The experience with the Easy Mode mod in place is pretty much the same. I saw more “You Died” screens on easymode than the typical player sees on regular mode. The only difference is that I didn’t waste my money on Elden Ring by having to give up less than 10% into the game like I did on Bloodborne after 50 hours or so.
Some of us, especially older gamers, just don’t have the reflexes for that type of game. Unfortunately for us, Fromsoft writes GREAT stories and Let’sPlays are still kinda boring.
I hear what you’re saying, but to be fair, younger players don’t start out with those reflexes either. It’s probably harder for older players, but I’m not convinced it’s that much more of a challenge that it’s not worth trying. Maybe it’s my lack of perspective talking, but I’m willing to bet that if older folks can learn to play a guitar or code, they could learn to play Elden Ring given the same amount of practice and motivation.
It took me over 6 hours total just to learn to parry, and even then I’d say my success rate is still only like 60% at best. I learned to do it for 1 specific DLC boss, and that was after 200 hours in the base game without using once, so I had to completely abandon my muscle memory. But man, the one run I managed to pull off where I hit just enough parries to make it out alive by the skin of my teeth, it was beautiful. I recorded it, and watching it back is like watching a dance. (Like a dancer with two left feet, but still, lol)
I don’t normally watch lets plays anymore either, but this one really hooked me. Gray and Lark both have a lot of charisma and bounce off of each other really well since they’re childhood friends. The stories they tell are entertaining enough that, for the first time ever, I decided to watch a livestream (instead of the edited version I linked).
Vaati Vidya also has a lot of good videos if you just want the raw lore.
It’s not about the reflexes, though. It’s that they have opted to take actions that make the game unenjoyable for a significant number of gamers despite it having no positive benefit for ANY gamer.
And much of my Letsplay complaints weren’t about Elden Ring. I mod that. I don’t have the tools to mod Bloodborne, a game I otherwise would like more than Elden Ring because of its storyline.
Like what
Miyazaki himself said he wants a PC port but Sony won’t do it. We’re definitely on the same page there, and so is the CEO of From Software.
Being bad at games isn’t a disability.
Say that to the person that has lost an arm and is playing with a special controller
Removed by mod
Blocked
“To defeat Godrick the Grafted, one must become Godrick the Grafted.”
There are plenty of videos showing people beating the game using one hand with disability controllers as well as entirely with voice controls or controllers that were specifically designed to be as stupid as possible (like bananas).
But it involves much higher commitment than a regular run
Difficulty is not the same as accessibility.
Remapping the inputs so they can be done with one hand is not the same as “you get twice as much health and mana”.
They can, it’s just not in the form of 1 button.
It’s an RPG, if you want the game to be easier then level up your character to have adequate HP/defense/attack power. Not enough? Upgrade your weapons/shield. Still not enough? You can summon two whole extra players to do all the work for you.
Still not enough? There’s mods.