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Because if you live in an apartment your only option for charging is to go to a charging location. You can’t just plug it in overnight.
Which I can see as a big hurdle for a lot of people.
I charged my EV overnight from an overhead garage door power socket in my apartment for years before I moved out. Never even needed public charging. Many people just don’t realize you can charge from a normal household outlet
I’ve never had an apartment with a garage. At minimum I’d have needed a 100 ft extension cord. Probably longer, which means it’d have to be thicker. Which means more expensive.
And I’m not sure about your apartments but at mine (and many others in my area) we can’t have anything hanging out of our windows unless it’s an AC
If I tried an extension cord it’d be a violation of my lease
IDK either, but it wouldn’t surprise me. Last place I was at they didn’t like that I removed their blinds. Not like I tossed them, but theirs sucked ass and I use blackout curtains anyway.
Had the same problem at my apartment, my workaround was putting the blinds back and putting my blackout curtains behind the blinds (because putting them between the blinds and the window made them upset too)
At least my apartment is wired mostly properly. Still have things on breakers that don’t make sense though.
That’s also what I did. It was just stupid and more difficult. Cause it was the blinds to the patio door.
Near all apartments around me have exclusively open-air parking, so this isn’t a viable solution for many. It’s not that the available power is inadequate, it’s non-existent.
Y’all really need to go about asking your landlord to install chargers. There are even options where it charges you for power so he’s not out the cost
They’ll probably ignore the request, but at this point it’s progress to plant the seed, give them the idea, show them interest is building. Your future self will thank you
The condo my ex lives in just had a board meeting about installing chargers. It seemed like a reasonable cost and they haven’t rejected it, so it’s possible
This was my biggest issue. I live in a townhouse with a carport-ish thingy, but the same issue applies.
I’ve had an EV for four years now and I’ve relied exclusively on public charging. I won’t say it’s never been without any annoyances but overall it was pretty unproblematic. It can absolutely be done if you want it. Recently they installed chargers at my workplace so now I’m fine and dandy.
I live in an apartment and just charge it once a week for 30 min while I do my grocery shopping. Ezpz. I’ve been doing this for 3 years and have never had a problem.
I live in a suburb with a lot of one- and two-car garages, but mine is one of the few houses without cars parked in the driveway or on the street. My neighbors on one side converted their garage into a living space during COVID, and the ones on the other use it for storage of things other than cars.
So even with garages you need space in that garage to store your car, which is yet another hurdle.
There’s no reason to need a garage. Mine is full of kids crap so I never park there, and just had the charger installed on the exterior p of my garage where it’s convenient to my car in the driveway. They’re all weatherproof and it’s not like someone is going to spend hours in your driveway charging their car to steal a couple bucks of electricity. Or, at least for Tesla, every car has a unique identifier, so you can configure a white list of allowed vehicles while blocking every phone else.
Well, in some European countries you could load your car while at work or grocery shopping.
Depending in your commute this could just be enough.
Anyhow: the prices and (country-specific) loading network might be show stopper. Many other things are just habit and/or subjective convenience.
Of course there aren’t many people buying EVs when the only ones available in the US are high end luxury models.
Import a bunch of those cheap Chinese EVs and lots of people will buy them. It won’t hurt the US manufacturers because they don’t produce any budget models.
There’s the Nissan Leaf, Chevy Bolt/Spark, Mini Cooper EV, Hyundai Kona/Ioniq 6, Fiat 500e and more. These qualify for subsidies if purchased new plus all the gas savings make them decently affordable or you can always buy them used as most people do.
Most people are going for the midrange models like the Model Y, Model 3, Ioniq 5, etc though since it’s not really ideal to buy the ‘worst’ version of something when making a large purchase. People want more range, space, and features. Even with ICE cars, the subcompacts sell/sold pretty poorly.
These qualify for subsidies if purchased new
They also qualify if purchased used. I’m looking at Bolts priced at $13-17k after the used EV credit. That’s pretty decent, I just need to go test drive a couple and make it happen.
But that only works because I’m replacing a commuter. It would be a non-starter for a family car because the maximum range is our minimum distance between stops at gas stations on road trips. We recently drove >800 miles each way on a road trip to visit family. On gas, that took us 12-13 hours. With an EV, I don’t think we could make it in a day, even if recharges took 20-30 min (and that’s a pretty big if, because the fast charging network isn’t great).
Import a bunch of those cheap Chinese EVs and lots of people will buy them
Or start building affordable EVs here.
Back in the 70s when Toyota, Datsun, Honda etc started eating the big 3’s lunch on affordable fuel efficient vehicles, they responded with smaller cars of their own.
If they’re not willing to respond to market demand and competition, do they even deserve to stay in business?
Isn’t that what the “free market” they claim to love enforces?
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Too expensive. Not owner repairable. Too much unnecessary tech baked in.
There’s a path forward for EV’s, but I don’t think the current philosophy is it.
Dacia spring has no unnecessary tech 😍 and is cheap
But, it is small 😂🤷🏻♀️ big enough for my family, at least.
Coming to the US never
😂 I don’t plan to go to US anytime soon
Me neither, but this is an article about Americans.
True that…
Just hope you’re never involved in an accident, Dacias (both EV and ICE) have abysmal safety ratings.
I know 😇 and thank you for that good wish ❤️
I already had an accident, where someone drove into the back of my car. Luckily nothing happened to me and his endurance paid me for a new Spring 😁
Cost of repair would have be been about half of the price of the car itself. But I know, that the endurance somehow sold my wreck after all (had forgotten to disable tracking and was able to see the location of the old car 😂)
Can anyone name me one that is a normal fucking car? With a little dial that tells you how fast you’re going that isn’t an LCD display that can’t be read in direct sunlight connected to an internet connected computer that will never get OS updates? With a gear shift lever that moves forward and back or up and down to select park, reverse and drive, not a nipple in the glove box to lick for “Forward,” a knob on the ceiling labeled “H” and to put it in reverse you honk the word REVERSE on the horn? Where the doors have handles that you pull on to open that look like door handles, and locks that have cylinders that accept keys?
Volkswagen E-golf seems to fit your description.
Been Driving one for almost 6 years and I gotta tell you the car is awesome. Sadly the battery-capacity is a bit dated. Depends on the use-case tho. Another negative point is the limited charging speed. In comparison to „modern“ EVs it‘s rather slow
Seems they’re discontinued?
Yes, the used ones are still pretty good though. I think the ID3 and ID4 are the successors to the eGolf.
Id2 is the actual successor. It’s planned to be the first VW “affordable” EV with a starting price below 25000 euros when it releases in 2025. At least they now try to target the budget market, but I’d never recommend a VW. They have done so much bad quality cars since the late 90s…
The 2023 Chevy Bolt I drove for a week had normal controls.
The only ones I’ve found close to this is bz4x or soltera. Which is why I got it. But no drive shaft really sucks and confuses the heck out of me when I have to drive my outback around.
Would be nice if they made ‘dumb’ EVs. Like the kind where even the windows are manual old school roll up. I don’t need to walk into a spaceship to drive to get groceries. But all they’re selling are luxury spaceships. For all the good Tesla did to rebrand the market, I feel it also did a lot of harm by creating an incentive for luxury vehicles.
Feel like this is what Fisker should’ve tried. The Ocean had the right hardware but it seemed like they spent too much effort on their infotainment instead of getting the basics right. Then target the sub-$30k market with a car that drives well with decent range and fewer gimmicks that just works.
That’s what the PEAR would’ve been
No one’s mentioned the privacy nightmare that new vehicles are. Why anyone would pay $45k for a vehicle that spies on you for the sole benefit of car manufacturers and insurance companies is beyond me. Do away with all the unnecessary privacy violations, or pay ME a monthly subscription for MY data.
Yep, this is the reason I won’t get an EV or any modern car. Probably gonna be driving 2016 cars or older the rest of my life.
I am uncomfortable with this as a permanent solution because new cars of today are old cars of tomorrow. Apparently at least in some vehicles, the telematics module is possible to remove with loss of some functionality - seen some videos and posts on that. I think we need an iFixit-like database comparing vehicles on that front - how easy is the unit to remove and what functions it affects. To be fair, the ones I’ve seen were on newer gas vehicles, so idk if EVs usually have that integrated tighter.
Yeah it’s not my ideal solution either, but I don’t see modern cars getting any better on privacy. If some manufacturer made a stripped down, privacy preserving car I’d be all about it.
I don’t see them getting better either - so at least I, maybe because I am not educated enough, think the solution is also in learning to rip out the privacy invasions rather than waiting for regulation or privacy-conscious models.
The problem is they integrate that shit with the functions you do want like the radio and AC and then make you operate it all through a god damn touchscreen so that if you get on the highway before you realize you forgot to turn the shitty lane assist off you now have to take your life in your hands to disable it or risk it ramming you into that ladder or pothole or something because it doesn’t want you to change lanes abruptly.
I mean the cell modem specifically. But yea, the touchscreens are also a problem.
This is not specific to EVs, but is most cars from the last decade or two
A used car that has physical gauges and knobs that’s $5000 + $1500 in preventive maintenance can actually make a decent vehicle. Plus doing the maintenance yourself can teach you a lot about working on cars.
Money. That’s the answer
Buy an EV? In this economy?
Buy an
EVything? In this economy?
My non EV is still perfectly serviceable and I don’t like all the superfluous electronic touchscreen bullshit they’re putting in modern vehicles so I’m going to keep driving it until the wheels fall off.
Yup, I’m looking at used EVs to replace my commuter (50mpg, so no hurry), and they come with a bunch of smart crap, so I’m looking at ways to block any potential phoning home before I buy the car.
It’s dumb. Just give me an EV with 150-200 miles range with no smart crap for $20k and I’ll buy it.
Yes. Preferably an option in the form of a small single cab pickup truck with a full size bed.
Yeah, I would probably buy that. I currently use my minivan for must “truck” things, but neither my wife or I like driving it, and we can’t just get a load of mulch or whatever.
So yeah, something like the old Ford ranger would be awesome.
I don’t know what telematics the Leaf had, but you’re describing what Nissan tried to do with that
Neither do I, and that’s concerning. Here’s their privacy policy:
Connected Vehicle Data
If you have a connected vehicle, your vehicle may be equipped with NissanConnect Services, which electronically transmits data generated by your vehicle. This information could include data collected in the context of a trial period or demonstration mode. Through these services, we may obtain vehicle and driving information, such as:
- Vehicle operation – including Vehicle Identification Number (VIN), Precise Geolocation and navigation information, speed and distance information, driving behavior, EV battery information (including use management, charging history and performance), electrical system functions, diagnostic trouble codes, maintenance conditions, software version information, and similar data
- Vehicle usage – your use of the vehicle’s functions and some corresponding services, websites and smartphone applications
- Vehicle status – information about door locks, open doors, engine status, etc.
- Vehicle safety – data about certain accidents involving the vehicle (for example, the direction from which the vehicle was hit, and which air bags have deployed)
I don’t know if NissanConnect is optional (looks like it is?), or if it’s “optional,” as in you need to accept to access core car features, like setting battery charge limits, redeeming a warranty, or accessing diagnostics. But I know the capability exists and I’d really like to have guarantees, as in, can I block Nissan from remotely accessing my vehicle? If not, can I remove the module without impacting other functions of the car?
But it’s really hard (at least in my few minutes of searching) to figure out what privacy concerns there are and what options I have to deal with it.
It’s an industry wide problem for sure. Whatever politician takes that up will get huge votes.
My EV is likely one of the worst offenders l, but they’re all offenders
When I looked into similar for my 1996 Pontiac, it was already a concern, and it’s gotten much worse
I looked into it a bit, and it looks like Chevy’s OnStar should be easy to remove (just a circuit board behind the dash). It’s ridiculous that I need to go through this though, I should be able to just turn it off and it would be off…
I’ve never even driven an EV, they’re comically far out of my price range.
All of them are expensive, and almost all of them are ugly as fuck. And the ones that I would consider even decent looking enough to drive are even more expensive than the others.
Would you buy one if they were more affordable? Personal experience I agree they are quite a lot of money to get behind the wheel of.
While we have plenty of gas stations to fill up with home charging can be another hurdle that’s costly or impossible depending on the living situation.
I sure would. I’m not one of those people who scoffs at modern cars.
Environmental reasons aside, they tend to have lots of bells and whistles that cars like my 20 year old Toyota doesn’t have. Parking sensors, better climate control, a multimedia system, etc.
I like my car but I’d swap it for an EV without a second thought if it was possible!
Price, range, infrastructure, in roughly that order of importance when averaged over the population. The article then goes into factors affecting price. (Of course, the article originated with the Financial Times and was only reprinted by Ars, so it makes sense that they would put money first.)
Exactly.
I’m willing to get a commuter EV, but almost everything either has too little range (e.g. older Leafs) or too much range that drives up the cost. I’m not willing to spend $30k+ on something that can really only be a commuter.
EVs don’t have the range to replace our family car since we do road trips, and anything with enough storage is already way more than a reasonable hybrid. Add to that high electricity rates at charging stations, and I’m just not interested.
So, make an affordable EV ($20k, ideally less) with 150-200 miles range, and I’ll buy it. I’m looking at used Bolts, which seem to be ~$15k after the credit for used. There really should be something new in this category though…
That’s what I’ve been saying for the last several years: give me a good commuter EV to replace my more commuter ICE. I still think two car households in single family homes are the ideal market, but i divorced my second car and spent a little more in the EV that can get me places. So far so good with road trips up to 3 hours, but we’ll see this summer with bigger road trips
Yeah, we regularly do 10+ hour road trips (10 to inlaws, 14 to my parents), and I think an EV would push those to 2 days. We take breaks for food every 300-400 miles (4-5 hours), so that’s my range expectation between refuels (we’ll sometimes refuel gas sooner if someone needs to pee). We usually eat in the car, but we could stop for 20-30 min once or twice without impacting much.
We occasionally do 2-3 hour trips (visit cousins, national parks), but it’s usually short trips or very long trips. So a small EV + larger hybrid is our current ideal, but we currently have a small hybrid + larger ICE (looking to replace both).
Current EVs seem to be trying to replace our family car, when they should be replacing my commuter, at least until battery tech improves. The Leaf and Bolt are options, but they’re kinda pricey new (used are looking very attractive).
For me, the last time I was in the market for a replacement vehicle, the 2 biggest factors were availability and price.
The dealers had zero stock (except maybe a rare fully optioned ridiculously priced example of the top of the line model), and I was not in a position to wait 2+ months for a factory order of a car that I couldn’t even test drive.
I want a super cheap EV for 15k-20k to drive around the city, but I’m not ready to give up my gas jeep.
The cheapest EV I can seem to find is about 45k CAD new, looks stupid, and comes with a ton of features I don’t want that will just break and need repair…
I feel like Jeep owners will be the last to go EV: the car is so unique in appearance, customizable, and functionality. And it’s not like Jeep owners are looking for efficiency.
Some of Cybertruck’s announced capabilities might have bit into that market, if they’re able to deliver them eventually
Because the most environmentally friendly car, is the one you already own.
Producing ev is heavy strain on the climate. This change won’t happen overnight.
Ev needs to be better and cheaper if it wants to defeat the ice market.
It already is better and cheaper, but we have regressive tariffs on the country producing them.
We have to switch at some point. We can’t just keep making ICE cars and saying the next generation will be electric.
Where I live, there’s one charging station. And it’s like 8 miles or so from my house. I’ve yet to see more. It’s also a fairly rural area. I think we forget how much population lives outside cities.
You don’t have electricity in your house??
IDK about houses, but this would be the case for people in apartment buildings. What should you do? Not even joke about “lowering a cord from your window” because it’s not guaranteed that your street parking is near your windows!
My co-worker has an electric car and lives in an apartment without a charger. Luckily our office has a few chargers and he only needs to charge it once or twice a week. If he really needed it he could charge at a public fast charger somewhere else in town, but he tries to avoid that.
Yeah, my office has a couple free chargers. It’s really not worth the fuss for me since I can charge at home and it’s a short commute but I’m happy to see there’s always a queue
Yes, of course, but in remote areas you very rarely have apartment buildings, as I recall.
That is not accurate. There are plenty of apartment buildings far away from commercial areas. They can be surrounded by rural areas or suburban areas (SFH zoning).
😮 and there are no changes at such remote apartment places?
Why would there be? Electric cars are luxury items bought by people who own homes.
Of course he does. But a standard house power connection does not deliver the amount of power you need to charge a car.
So you need to build a charging pole at your house if you want to charge ar home. Which is another investment.
And if you are in a somewhat remote area and there are not many charging poles around you, you are also very limited in how far and how fast you can travel.
So there really is no point investing in a charging pole and an EV car if the car is not capable of doing to the same things that a gas car can do.
EDIT: thanks for the responses. I’m still not convinced that electric is a good option for me, but some issues seem to be fixed or not as bad as I thought.
Still, within my price range it will take a while before I can pay one.
It depends on the circuit in the garage and people need to check. But trickle charging overnight is entirely feasible for many people.
Or I got a fairly cheap set of adapters that also work for 240v dryer/power tool, and RV outlets. I ought to be able to charge by y vehicle pretty much everywhere
The problem here is that you think the only viable method to charge an electric vehicle is a level 2 or above charger. The average person, even in more rural areas, generally drives less than 60 miles in a day. Which is something that can be recouped overnight with a standard 15 amp outlet. And that’s assuming it’s only plugged in for 8 hours. Most people’s cars sit idle at home much longer than that. You don’t even need to go Fancy with a dryer Outlet much less a level2 charger.
Unless you’re somewhat remote area is over 200 mi from the nearest charger the majority of electric vehicles will get you there without you having to drive like a grandma. As many of them have somewhere on the order of 250 to 280 miles of range on a full charge now.
My car is plugged in to a normal power outlet in my garage. As long as it’s not sharing a circuit with a stove or ac compressor or something it’ll be fine, and even if it is you could work around that.
It’s nowhere near as bad as you think. A level 2 charger is essentially an electric stove circuit, and the chargers are only a few hundred dollars. I had to do both this year and there really wasn’t a significant cost difference. I charge once or twice a week for a couple hours. It’s quite reasonable to install a level 2 charger if you have a single family house with off street parking
Or for like $150, I got a full set of adapters to charge pretty much everywhere. In addition to a regular outlet, I can plug into a 240v dryer/powertool/heater/ac outlet, or an RV outlet for a faster charge.
While I do have many charging stations nearby (and I’ll bet that’s far more common in the population than people who don’t), with a home charger, I’ve never had the need to use a public charger less than 100 miles from here
Well, it is enough for my car… You don’t need 50kW if you charge over Night (same Like you don’t need fast charge g, if you charge your phone over night)
Remember the yanks have pink fluffy girly 110v electricity. They’ve only just been told about kettles and they think a microwave is a cooking device
Yea, but normally you can draw about 15 amps compared to the 10 amps typically allowed un EU. 110v x 15A = more then 1.5kW which should totally be enough to charge over night (maybe blug it in every night)
I just learned that you can steam broccoli in the microwave and it’s such a time saver!
Um, excuse me, sir! It’s called a microwave oven for a reason thankyouverymuch!
My entire city currently has 30 charging ports in total, half of which are either in private locations, malls, paid parking, or singular charging station spots in obscure places.
I’m not opposed to EVs at all, but the infrastructure is just not there. Not to mention the abysmal price of these
The answer to questions like these is always money.
Money for infrastructure and money to buy the thing.
I’ve been saying since EVs hit the market that I couldn’t wait for them to be cheap enough used for me to justify purchasing one. That hasn’t happened yet. Most I’ve ever spent on a car was $7k.
For sure, we can’t expect a good used EV market until we establish a strong new EV market.
