- cross-posted to:
- exmormon@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- exmormon@lemmy.world
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The Japanese say “shouganai” which literally translates to “It can’t be helped.”
The problem is, 90% of the time, it absolutely can be helped.
Me:“It is what it is.”
Narrator:“But it wasn’t.”
It do be like that sometimes.
Narrator: “but it ben’t.”
This is my new favorite sentence and now I will find a way to say it out loud.
Also I’ve now been singing “Let it Ben’t.”
Whispern’t words of wisdom
They don’t think it be like that, but like that it do indeed be.
Strangers in the night do be do be do.
But other times, it don’t be like dat.
Inshallah, or, “God willing” is the Quran approved version.
I hear that meaning “I hope so”
It’s both
Deus Vult if you happen to be a crusader
The problem is, 90% of the time, it absolutely can be helped.
Shouganai.
The literal translation is “there’s no way/method”. Which figuratively translates into “can’t be helped”.
If I remember correctly, the way to express inevitable necessity to do something also translates to something like “otherwise no way” in Japanese
Also, Chinese is “没办法” (méi bànfǎ) that is also “no way [of doing something]”
“Tja” - German word that simply serves as a linguistic shrug of resignation.
“Et es, wie et es.” - Typical cologne dialectic phrase of recognizing reality and moving on.
I was gonna bring this one up if no one else did.
I feel like “it is what it is” is too often shit on.
I had a boss from whom I learned about staying calm and keeping steady course.
His favorite saying was “it is what it is” and it was always in the context of simply recognizing the reality for what it is, instead of hoping or wishing it was something else or lamenting over how it should have gone a different way. Then, from the point of accepting that “it is what it is” we would focus on how to get to where we wanted to be.
Sure it can be used dismissively, but I feel like people always just dismiss it as a cliche when it’s actually usually a very good philosophy.
“Though-terminating” is not necessarily a negative thing.
Like how your boss used it: stop the train of anger and reframe the problem in a more constructive way.
It’s still terminating a thought, it just wasn’t a productive thought and needed terminating.
Edit: typo
Good point, I didn’t really consider that it could be used in a good way.
Although, in my defense, they are using the term cliche which usually has negative connotations.
I mean even cliches are cliche right?
So many people just don’t like negative connotation things because they just don’t like their answer.
Arguing semantics is literally arguing about the definition of a word which is absolutely pivotal when determining stances on things. Arguing semantics is one of the most important things you can do when arguing. There is nothing negative about it.
Agree to disagree. It literally means you’ve gotten so far along in your debate that you’ve found that rhetorical lynch pin of an argument. It’s where the true disagreement lies. And too many people also think there AREN’T black and white scenarios when you get to them. More often than not, it’s because you’ve narrowed it down to A or B. There is NO other option.
You either think it’s okay to destroy an embryo or fetus because you’re more important than a long what if, or you think it’s the same as murdering an 18 year old in cold blood.
You can slowly deprogram some people from those lynchpin scenarios. But it isn’t going to happen when you find it.
People are not run on pure logic. More often than not they run on what they were born with reinforced through nurture. They need time to change strong thoughts and opinions they’ve held because they’re strong for a reason.
I had a boss who used to say the same thing. He was telling us “We didn’t set this dumpster on fire, but somehow it’s our job to handle it. No point bitching, so roll your sleeves up and get to it.” I’ve started saying the same thing for the same reason.
Yeah, I have a voice in my head saying that. Not long ago I realised just doing stuff that needs to be done is much faster and less draining tgan figuring out how to get someone else to do it.
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I agree with this. I use the phrase essentially as “this is the reality” to either set a baseline, or just a different way to say c’est la vie. It frustrates me when people say it’s always a dismissive phrase, because when I am dissmive with it I’m not doing so in a negative way. There’s something to be said about letting little inconveniences lie and fade away.
There’s something to be said about letting little inconveniences lie and fade away.
I absolutely agree. But to go a step further, there is a lot to be said for accepting things as they are. It’s even a core tenant of buddhism.
I agree, but I prefer “you have to play the ball as it lies”. It’s a similar sentiment, but more active so it doesn’t lend itself as much to defeatist readings. We can’t change reality, this is the situation we find ourselves in, but yes, we will find a path forward regardless.
when it’s actually usually a very good philosophy.
Yeah, in an environment or situation where you literally have no agency.
But most times it’s used in any sort of meaningful conversation about society for instance… then it’s meant as a “thought-stopper”.
i have a love hate relationship with that term.
It’s very valuable in a certain sense, but it’s also incredibly soul sucking if you live your entire life to that concept.
This term seems like just an insult wearing academic robes. And a tautology. All cliches over simplify the world, side-stepping complex analysis.
There’s nothing “thought terminating” about acknowledging that a problem is beyond your scope - which is what the first two mean. I’ve only heard YOLO used to encourage risk-taking, which is completely different.
Realistically, these are often just social cues that you’re bored with the conversation.
Obviously whether you use a cliche to avoid thinking deeper on a topic or for some other reason changes with each use. It’s not inherent to the phrase.
I don’t think either of these are really thought terminating cliches inherently. The phrase is more for their usage as a rhetorical device to end arguments in certain ways. They become them when they are “used to intentionally dismiss dissent or justify fallacious logic” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_cliché)
Ending an argument often involves dismissing dissent. The end of an argument is also the end of thought on that argument. You’re just rewording the original term, that you’re arguing against.
It ends the argument it doesn’t complete the argument.
You’ve essentially just stopped talking about the topic. No consensus has been arrived at. Possibly because one was not possible.
Yes, exactly what the screenshot says.
It’s not productive to argue endlessly.
I disagree.
Source?
I was just joking about arguing endlessly, by carrying on an argument.
No you weren’t.
The Wikipedia article has multiple conflicting definitions, including:
"any use of the language, especially repeated phrases, to ward off forbidden thoughts”
“Claim Y sounds catchy. Therefore, claim Y is true.”
“the start and finish of any ideological analysis”The problem is that the term is just BS, in part because the idea it was made to support is complete BS.
Defining ‘Totalitarianism’ was a cold war project of western academia, trying to come up with a way to say that the nazis and soviets were the same. They weren’t though. Only far right US Nationalists still claim this. The term has very low analytical use, so once the pressure to create this propaganda evaporated with the end of the USSR the term quickly became defunct.
Thought terminating cliches was coined by a psychologist in ’61 trying to claim that ‘totalist thought is characterized by thought terminating cliches.’ To translate: the west has reasoned ideology, everyone else just spouts cliches.
If only there was a way to describe using a saying to abruptly conclude a conversation that you’re bored with so that you no longer are expected to apply any more mental energy on the topic, using an established terse phrase.
Like, maybe “consideration ending saying”
So it goes.
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Just walking away from someone who you’re talking to is generally seen as very rude, hence us developing social cues to demonstrate that you’re done with the topic/conversation.
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I think it went over a lot of people’s heads.
Jokes that involve or could be mistaken for rudeness rarely land online, in my experience. There are too many trolls and so people assume bad faith.
Thank you! I felt the same way.
I find myself saying or thinking “it is what it is” pretty often, but not to terminate thought/conversation. If something bad happens and I can’t do anything about it except deal with it, that’s just the way it is. I see people complaining about those situations, and I feel like it’s just wasted energy; we should save that energy for the things we have some amount of control over.
Well, if you recognize that a situation is beyond your scope you might use such a phrase to suggest moving on from further discussion either internally or in conversation with others. It might be less a magic phrase that stops thoughts and more a request to move on; a “conversation terminating” phrase.
The second one seems to be a bit of an Americanism I’m not really sure what it means. I take it to mean there’s nothing anyone can do about it, e.g. there is a storm coming and you are not sure if it will hit your house or not, whereas the first one means there’s nothing we can do about it but some other human can e.g. above your pay grade/ out of your responsibility.
Thought Terminating Cliches can be useful because it is not productive to worry about things over which you have no power.
Not YOLO, though, which is often used to stop thinking about the consequences of choosing to do something stupid.
I also often hear “It is what it is” to mean “someone made a bad decision and I’m not fighting it like I should.”
Or the thing has already been done.
I see it used oftentimes to dismiss systematic injustice aswell… “it is what it is”…
which on an individual level feels like we have no control over but is infact something we have a lot of control over. A very malignant useage I feel
Yes, the subject being dismissed is what makes it a good or bad thing. Is it something you have zero control over? Good thing. Otherwise, bad thing.
I associate it with “I suck as a manager, but I kiss ass hard enough to fail upward.”
It’s specifically good when you’re ruminating.
That’s fair
I feel like “fuck it we ball” applies too. At least that’s how I use it.
Or the Klingon “Today is a good day to die.”
Instead of saying, “We’re all going to die, why even bother?”, they go, “We’re all going to die, let’s speedrun this bitch!”
I think it originally comes from a native American saying.
chąą nihí jooł
Thought fuck we terminate
Well fuck now I feel old.
Well, sometimes an end to a discussion is exactly whats needed. Sometimes. Like when theres literally nothing to do about something. Or the discussion is going in circles. Or when it would take shorter time to try it out in practice than have another meeting about the best way to implement it.
I hear “it is what it is” used as a kind of “it’s okay to move on”:
A: I hurt my back and had to cancel my vacation.
B: Oh no, I’m so sorry!
A: Well, it is what it is. What’s for lunch?
determine next steps, then table the discussion.
Doesn’t “table the discussion” rather imply that they’re going to come back to it at some point. I feel like “it is what it is” ends any further discussion on the topic.
yes, i was suggesting something different.
‘it is what it is’ is a verbal shrug.
i would argue that nothing is ever permanently tabled, merely indefinitely paused.
“had to cancel my vacation” doesn’t mean they aren’t vacationing, they might very well be staying home, and enjoying their time. They might not be doing that, but they might also be planning another vacation later, which i would argue is where it is no longer tabled, at that point.
Who gives a shit.
That’s another good one.
Shit happens.
I dont wanna know.
End of.
It’s what it’s.
Awful, added to my vocabulary
“I haven’t stopped thinking about this since”
That’s a meme terminating cliche
YOLO
OK it works
I think these phrases can also help if you are a person, like I am, who ruminates in unhelpful and damaging thought patterns.
Some of us think and agonize too much in an unhealthy way and definitely need ways to shut it down.
So it goes.
Such is the way of things.
But what about “It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose”?
That’s not a Thought-Terminator, that is life!
crypto nerds call this “rng”
act rightly without attachment to the fruit of your actions, bitch
change it to “probable” and you’ll get the world we live in
“Living their best life” and “Speaking their truth” are recent and annoying examples of this.
The first is always used to dismiss self destructive or irresponsible behaviour. The second is often used to make a statement that is either false, manipulative, subjective or a combination. Their isn’t a personal truth, there is only truth.
They don’t think it be like it is, but it do.
But it McDo
Thought-Terminating Cliches aren’t self-fulfilling!
It is what it is, I guess.
