~500 comments about our instance and admins in the past week. Talk about needing to touch some grass…

    • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
      56·
      7 months ago

      There’s some good peeps there and they help in keeping the crypto-fash in check. But their clannishness is unchecked.

      • Unruffled [he/him]@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        62·
        7 months ago

        Do we really need their help keeping fascists in check? Problem is hexbears consider everyone who’s not on ml or hexbear to be an ipso facto fascist, and act accordingly. There’s zero room in their ideology for anyone with more moderate political views. I’d say the majority of our users are probably left leaning, but unless they happen to want the violent destruction of the western liberal democracies, then they just aren’t left enough for hexbears to accept.

        Having said all that, I feel like we’ve managed to successfully remove most of the overt political trolling from hexbear on our instance lately, so our own communities aren’t too affected. But they really hate the fact we’ve been clamping down on them.

        I’ll also acknowledge the majority of hexbear’s users don’t go trolling. They seem to have a bunch of well meaning people who are focussed on community building, a bunch of political history/theory enthusiasts, and a bunch of awful trolls who are just there for the lulz. You can see in their own modlogs that there’s tensions within their instance between those groups.

        So, it’s a complicated situation to deal with, and depending which groups you interact with, you might have a very different experience. From my own experience I’d say the bad far outweighs the good though.

        • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
          24·
          7 months ago

          I think it’s because you and me face the brunt of their ire for trying to defend our instance inside their toxic comms, and that colors our perspective. But I try to step out of this and see things less personally when it affects more than just me. Just my take. I generally appreciate having the chance to be challenged from the left on occasion. None of us is perfect at the end of the day.

        • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
          19·
          7 months ago

          but unless they happen to want the violent destruction of the western liberal democracies

          Btw, I think we also need to be cognizant when they exaggerate, but then again, a lot of their users will be the first to say “Lol, they think we exaggerate” so it’s not always clear since they’re too many levels deep in irony, which has it’s own impact on their userbase’s mentality. Similar statements generally require discussion and deconstruction before one can decide if that person deserves some sort of sanction.

          • Unruffled [he/him]@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            25·
            7 months ago

            I think we just need to take what they say at face value, because it’s all to easy for problematic users to pivot to “just joking” when they get called out.

            • Draconic NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              3·
              6 months ago

              Yeah I couldn’t agree more, they’ve caused enough issues to prove that it really isn’t and hasn’t been a joke for a long time.

      • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
        58·
        7 months ago

        they help in keeping the crypto-fash in check

        Unless your users at large are crypto fascists I don’t think you need crypto authoritarians to keep crypto fascists in check.

        • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
          24·
          7 months ago

          Well their criticism of the current system is on-point, and they can help counter pro-capitalism ideologues. It’s just that their praxis tends to be shite when they try to be all “vanguard of the proletariat” or overuse their “bullying” as a tactic.

          • DessertStorms@kbin.social
            33·
            7 months ago

            they can help counter pro-capitalism ideologues

            Only with authoritarian ideals, and while supporting places like China and N. Korea, giving capitalists every reason to mock what the tankies falsely present as communism.

            Like, you do you, but personally simply having anti-capitalism in common isn’t enough to overlook the oppressive ideas they preach and support (even if indirectly, by using that instance specifically, they actively endorse and condone those ideals), just like having anti-stateism in common isn’t enough to overlook the oppressive ideas "an"caps preach and support.

            They’re telling you who they are, the best thing you can do is listen (and if any of these users really are that chill and not at all tankies like you give them credit for, they should understand why being affiliated with authoritarians is a red flag to most users, and have no problem creating an account on another instance that isn’t bringing mass defederation on to itself by brigading and harassing anyone who doesn’t agree with their oppressive views)

    • dalekcaan@lemm.ee
      29·
      7 months ago

      Hexbear and lemmygrad are the only instances I blocked in-client, and it was a drastic instant improvement.

  • Painfinity@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    60·
    7 months ago

    Hey db0 and mods!

    Since you’re just humans and we never know if the insults are slowly getting to you or you’re just having doubts, I want to give a voice to the lurkers in here and reiterate one thing: I feel exceptionally well taken care of in this instance! I’m extremely happy to be a part of it, I don’t even know what a downtime is and I don’t see much drama or toxicity if any at all. I’m simply loving Lemmy (yes, seriously!), I’m loving my time on it and I can just focus on following the communities I’m passionate in, which is the main point of Lemmy. I’m also aware that this does not happen without considerable hard work from the people behind it. So while I’m sure most of it goes unnoticed, I hope to at least convey with this that it’s not taken for granted or unappreciated in the slightest bit. A very big thanks to you all (and I try to donate where I can) <3

    As for my personal experience, whenever a hexbear post makes it into my feed it’s mostly an overly aggressive political take or straight up trolling. It reminds me of the League of Legends kind of humour: It’s supposed to be a joke, but it’s not explicitly spelled out that it’s a joke and it attacks the individual. It’s a mix of aggressive trolling and just straight up toxicity. You just never know if you’re supposed to take it serious or not. But I personally like to have a choice if I eventually want to block them or not, and I feel like having a choice is one of the common threads between FOSS, Linux, the fediverse, self-hosting, piracy and so on.

    But, while I do appreciate this, it isn’t crucial to my experience on Lemmy. So, if at any time this balance is taking too much of a toll on you guys, it wouldn’t be a big deal for me if we would “lose contact” with hexbear. Last thing I want is to slowly cook your sanity bit by bit, with each passing day a bit more, over something that is frankly not that important. I’d rather prefer you focus on what you love doing, be that doing technical stuff, improving the instance, memeing around, learning new stuff or simply discussing things with other people in peace. Life is much too short to argue with people, and over the internet it’s even worse!

    • RandomLegend [He/Him]@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      13·
      6 months ago

      Feels really good to read that. Thank you!

      I don’t think they cook our sanity bit by bit. We all are pretty resilient and take a good chuckle whenever something like this happens.

      • WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        9·
        6 months ago

        Those of us in the DB absolutely love you guys. You’ve got our support. Normally I’m against defederation as much as possible, but I know you guys will make the right choice and do what is best for our instance.

        Give ‘em hell.

      • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        3·
        6 months ago

        even if these posts were “grilling the admins” it’s literally your instance, you don’t have to listen to anybody lol.

        this instance is by far one of my favored instances though. So i’ll continue to use it regardless, and if it does go to shit, i’ll just jump ship lol. Freedom to surf is part of federation after all.

      • YeetPics@mander.xyz
        1·
        6 months ago

        Lol edit your shitty takes away. There is no acid strong enough to resurface your tarnished reputation.

        • Aphelion@lemm.ee
          36·
          7 months ago

          Not from what I’ve seen, it’s just not tolerant of liberalism.

          There, I fixed it for you.

          • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
            19·
            7 months ago

            Not in my experience, they are very tolerant towards Marxists, Anarchists, trans people, etc. Liberalism is bannable, though.

            • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
              27·
              7 months ago

              Well yes they just label anyone who they want to be removed a “liberal”, like they did with me.

                • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
                  17·
                  6 months ago

                  Sure, whatever. That’s their prerogative. But if you also insult me and delete my comments explaining our position so as to allow your disinfo the fester all the better, I might just call you a disingenuous pos

                  Edit to say, that being a loud mouth is not a “liberal” or “reactionary” either 😁

        • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
          23·
          6 months ago

          I believed that, myself, for quite some time. I ended up blocking them, however, despite being an anarcho-syndicalist. The instance has very much cultivated a toxic and anti-social culture where the most active users are climbing over eachother for a chance to “dunk” on someone.

          Just like right-wingers abuse outrage to get a rush some of the polygonimals clearly have become addicted to aggressive behaviors, with the rush from bullying and dunking being rather apparently more important than leftism. It’s a problem.

          Additionally, their claims of anti-sectarianism and dialectics do not hold water when they are quick to label dissenting leftists as libs so that they can justify bans for those who don’t toe the line.

  • Default_Defect@midwest.socialEnglish
    35·
    6 months ago

    Drama like this is exactly why I laugh when people say its better on lemmy than reddit, its just a different flavor of the same shit when you’re on All.

  • shaytan@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    34·
    7 months ago

    It’s honestly sad, almost to the point where defederating from them would be better

    But I’m sure we’d be loosing good people from hexbear too

    • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
      41·
      7 months ago

      Eh, I don’t plan on defederating over such drama. They see some value in some of our users and we see some value in some of their users and we can ban the red-fash apologists and disinfo peddlers if they become a problem.

        • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
          17·
          7 months ago

          I’ve had, but it’s mostly outside of their areas, or with people who are not immediately closing ranks and arguing in bad faith. Just before I got banned I had someone praise me for being chill, so 🤷

          • Draconic NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            4·
            6 months ago

            Most people on hexbear with any desire to participate in good faith will have other accounts elsewhere, Hexbear is already isolated as can be so multiple accounts is basically required for them to participate on the rest of the Fediverse. Shouldn’t feel too bad about cutting off their Hexbear accounts since they almost certainly have others.

        • trafficnab@lemmy.ca
          6·
          6 months ago

          My instance is defederated with them, and most of the (politically) negative interactions I’ve had with people from other instances, I check hexbear, and so far 100% of the time they have an account with the same name there

    • PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world
      20·
      7 months ago

      I had to join a defederated server after the mods sent hexbear users my way to harass he after a I reported users for harassment…

      As someone no longer part of their drama, yall should defederate.

      • the post of tom joad@sh.itjust.works
        4·
        7 months ago

        I thought users could individually block comms now. For example i tried blocking lemmy.world and while that was in place i didn’t see comments from there. Is this not the case for you?

        • KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          7·
          6 months ago

          You can block an instance, but not all users from that instance. It’s essentially a “don’t see this instances posts” option.

          • the post of tom joad@sh.itjust.works
            2·
            6 months ago

            Oh. I saw a ton of hidden comments i could not view when i blocked .world (cuz of facebook, not the lovely commenters). I thought that was because i blocked the comm they were coming from.

                • KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  2·
                  6 months ago

                  Sorry, to be clear I meant “block this instance” is a Lemmy feature, but “block users from a blocked instance” is likely client side. And to be clear, the web front ends are also clients. Many of them are non standard.

                  If you look at the description of the instance blocking, it says it doesn’t block users.

                  Didn’t mean to confuse things, I should have been more clear.

    • Draconic NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      7·
      6 months ago

      But I’m sure we’d be loosing good people from hexbear too

      Not really, the good people will just make accounts elsewhere and start using those accounts to interact here and on the rest of the fediverse, most of the good ones already do that because hexbear is already very isolated by virtue of the fact they’re using whitelist federation and also the fact that they already have been defederated for the spam, trolling, and harassment their less savory members bring about (and more importantly the fact that it is unpunished by their instance’s moderators if not encouraged).

  • AWildMimicAppears@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    29·
    6 months ago

    to be honest: hexbear is an awful instance, and to me absolutely nothing would be lost if we just defederated from them. they are a constant source of drama, are awfully quick with the banhammer if they get criticized, and have cultivated an echo chamber that makes any meaningful discussions with them impossible. comparing them to lemmygrad is more than valid, and noone bats an eye when someone defederates from that cesspool.

    i’m really for keeping as many doors as possible open, but the big question is if we really want the door open to an openly authoritarian and for the most part radicalized community. looking at the comments here, i can see that i am not the only one who thinks this way.

  • empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    28·
    6 months ago

    It’s funny how butthurt they always get about the simplest shit. It’s kinda hilarious.

    Their instance has always been blocked on my end since the second lemmy added the instance block feature, but since that only gets rid of posts, my individual user block list has grown to about 40 hb users by now. Life gets better every time I add one to it. I hopped over there for a second and saw them gloating about banning you from their instance like it was some huge win. And then shitting on db0 because they’re “not real pirates” because they… don’t support dictatorships or something? Lol wtf?

    Do not ever try to reason with them because you are burning your breath. I am surprised you have tolerated them this long. Quite literally, the only thing that can ever be done with hardcore radical trolls is blocking or defederating. Removing their voice always hurts them the most, because their only source of energy is controversy.

    I think the rest of us reasonable folk really love what you do here db0. This has been by far the most stable, cleanest instance I’ve been on so far, and i’ve tried 3 or 4 of them. don’t let the assholes try and pull you down for not kowtowing to their weird ideology. Keep it up!

    Edit: And as expected, the downvote brigade is monitoring this post, lol.

    • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      8·
      6 months ago

      And then shitting on db0 because they’re “not real pirates” because they… don’t support dictatorships or something? Lol wtf?

      the dbzer0 shitpost was funny lmao. Cry harder next time.

      dbzer0 is honestly one the better instances out here (though im biased obviously)

    • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      15·
      6 months ago

      Funny, in this ‘drama’ hex voted against defederation and voiced support for dbzer0 users. The bans from hex admins seemed reasonable if you look at the event history.

      • d-RLY?@lemmy.ml
        3·
        6 months ago

        Prefacing with the TL;DR since I went much longer than I meant to and don’t feel like deleting lol. But I thank you for seeing that most HB users (that voted) value keeping federation with dbzer0. The rest of my reply might be pointless nonsense, so fell free to stop here.

        I also have a HB account in addition to my lemmy.ml I am obviously replying to you now with. I also voted that we should stay federated along with many others (which as you saw was a large majority). While there are real moments of hard trolling that I see, the shit happens with lots of other instances that aren’t .ml, lemmygrad, or HB. It is something that happens no matter old internet, new internet, federated, mega social media sites. One person’s troll is another’s friend depending on so many factors. Some of which is even misunderstandings turning into people just all jumping in all due to said misunderstandings. While others are intentional, but might not be malicious and just taken the wrong way (completely text-based communications are constantly taken wrong).

        For example (in my case) I might take a post or comment differently depending on which account I am using. But not notice right away that the source is from an instance that I don’t have an account on. So I might comment with a take thinking of the instance I am on (and therefore a different understanding of the regular vibes) and be taken much much differently than I mean. Sometimes I delete a reply right after posting when I see it is not from the instance I am using.

        I personally get taken wrong by people IRL when I am fucking around due to strong sarcasm and sometimes lack of expression on my face. My main point is that a lot of people on HB, Lemmygrad, and .ml actually like lots of the boards on dbzer0. I personally make sure to subscribe to the same boards from dbzer0 on my different accounts just to make sure I see the information, guides, and news no matter which I am signed into.

        And like many (if not most) of the comments in the vote on HB to stay federated or not (and some folks from dbzer0 in this thread), people do find the exposure to other instances to be of value. We can learn lots of things that we might never have if not faced with such exposures and interactions. There will always be people that make problems that really aren’t helpful. But it really doesn’t help to make sure everything is reduced to pure echo chambers and just “other” everyone else. It guaranties that hate grows as the “others” are just spoken badly of and enforces not bothering to try to interact. It allows lies about the “others” to not be questioned.

    • Draconic NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      5·
      6 months ago

      Really wish people would take the time to learn how the options work and not just assume they work a certain way, instance blocks are just for communities and not the users on the instance:

      Users can now block instances. Similar to community blocks, it means that any posts from communities which are hosted on that instance are hidden. However the block doesn’t affect users from the blocked instance, their posts and comments can still be seen normally in other communities.

      When people frame this option as if it’s an alternative to defederation it is both deceptive and dishonest because it does not help with the current issues instances like hexbear bring to the table, it just blocks the communities of that instance.

      • barsquid@lemmy.world
        4·
        6 months ago

        Blocking certain instances improves the experience by a huge amount, but it really isn’t sufficient. I don’t really need to encounter edgy teens saying that they hope America collapses and everyone inside gets murdered.

    • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      27·
      6 months ago

      Have you read the comments? Plenty of people think this is silly evidently, it’s not brigading when a lot of dbz users are hexbear users also

      Upvoted comment here:

      I don’t care for the drama on Hexbear. And I don’t care for it here either. This post is drama baiting.

      That’s a reasonable sentiment to me

    • clergywomenpro@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      20·
      6 months ago

      I think a lot of our users on dbzero are genuinely confused why our admin keeps posting about this, ngl. They’re also talking smack on their Matrix channel for some reason despite saying that they think more about us than vice-versa.

      It honestly looks like he wants/likes the drama to me.

      • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
        16·
        6 months ago

        Wait what do you you mean “keeps posting”? This is the only thing I’ve posted about hexbear for months!

      • Simon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        4·
        6 months ago

        We’re confused? Why do you talk for other people like that’s somehow authorative ngl. Not a great thing to insult the intelligence of a whole group with the ‘I think’ line.

        • clergywomenpro@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          5·
          6 months ago

          Not really sure what you mean here tbh. Plenty of people seemed to be downvoting his stance on the matter. I imagine we share a lot of users with hex, so poking the bear seemed like an odd choice.

          • Simon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            4·
            6 months ago

            There you go again dropping huge reaches as if they were facts. Doubt many people here give two flying shits about hexbear.

  • the post of tom joad@sh.itjust.works
    25·
    7 months ago

    I think everyone who hates hexbear should just… Make a hexbear.net account and go hang out there. That’s what i did, waaaay back when sh.itjust.works defedded. I hadn’t heard about them before and i just had to see what the food was about first-hand.

    It’s not the den of wolves people seem to fear. In fact, i spend nearly as much time hanging out in their threads as on this instance. I have always liked learning new perspectives and stuff, and i believe I’ve gained quite a bit from making that place one of my innanet homes

    • RobotToaster@mander.xyz
      19·
      7 months ago

      I’m on an instance federated with them, and subscribed to a couple of their comms, but their most popular politics boards are exactly what you’d expect from it being where r/chapoTrapHouse went.

    • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
      17·
      7 months ago

      100% agree. Largely, defederation from Hexbear by the larger servers has resulted in a sort of vastly inflated mythology surrounding it.

      Just visit it, and see for yourself what it’s actually like, it won’t hurt.

    • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      14·
      7 months ago

      I swear 90% of the people deriding hexbear were offended by one post and never went back or saw a post that was entirely full of sarcastic comments and thought it was unironic. I’m not even ML, I call myself an anarchist and argue about all kinds of shit on hexbear and I have found it to be a very caring community, and actually doesn’t tolerate transphobia or imperialist apologia unlike most online spaces.

      • Armok: God of Blood@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        13·
        6 months ago

        Hexbear sends their commissar clown car around to threads they disagree with, especially in political/news communities, and brigade them with their tankie bullshit ideology.

      • the post of tom joad@sh.itjust.works
        22·
        7 months ago

        They definitely aren’t china/russo spies or the funnier ideas ive seen folks have. They skew about the same age range and nationality as the rest of Lemmy. Lotsa yanks yaknow? They aren’t afraid to show you your own ass if you drop trou around them, and they have the mental acuity to expose every pimple, so you better have a thick skin if you want to speak on something you aren’t as informed on as you think you are. I do have one (id like to think) and i got my clock cleaned over there once, had to touch grass for a few days. But i didn’t get banned or harassed for it. (Probably because i didn’t double down on my opinion) in fact i am still friendly with those same people, even the ones who hurted my feefees.

        I think maybe the shock many commenters feel going over there is actually whiplash from the perspective change. From arguing politics from a position of “the left” towards people on “the right” political spectrum.

        When you’re talking communists as a liberal, you are the right wing. This whiplash is dizzying and difficult, and not at all pleasant. Unless you plan to learn, and go there with the idea that you are going to learn something, it’s not going to be a fun expedition. Proselytizing types get mocked and banned.

        Reason i say one must learn isnt to say one must convert, there are simply a lot of things we have been told about what communism/capitalism actually are that are simply untrue. In addition, there’s a lot of additional historical context those who don’t dedicate themselves to the subject just won’t know that kinda changes the way one views how we came to be where we are today.

        And one doesnt have to believe or agree with the conclusions drawn to gain this insight and perspective, but i feel knowing more is always better than Knowing less. At the very least you may find yourself understanding where they come from, and agree with many points they make.

        Ive just read my ramble and i don’t know if it is descriptive or helpful at all haha. Lemme just say in closing i think those folks have good heads on their shoulders and I’m quite glad i found them. taking the time to try to understand what they’re about was a lesson for me in both political theory and history and i am better for it

        • swunchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          11·
          7 months ago

          Yeah I agree with a lot of what you’ve said here. I actually switched to db0 from lemm.ee as my primary instance when hexbear defederated from ee. I mostly lurk anyways but I do like seeing their posts from time to time, at the very least it’s good to get a wider perspective on things. Tbh Lemmy in general and especially the leftist instances have made me reconsider some of my long standing beliefs and have contributed greatly to my radicalization lol

          • laughterlaughter@lemmy.world
            1·
            6 months ago

            What do you mean by “radicalization”? I know you’re talking in hyperbole, but are you saying that you’re more fervent of your original ideas, or that going over there made a huge impact on the things you believe in?

        • laughterlaughter@lemmy.world
          2·
          6 months ago

          Thank you! Sounds point, and I appreciate you typing all that. I will check it out with an open mind. But that will be difficult. I come from a place where socialism/communism was implemented, in which the message was “being rich is a bad thing,” and the government is just a bunch of hypocrite authoritarian corrupts. So I have my reservations.

          But I’m always willing to learn.

      • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
        13·
        7 months ago

        Not who you asked, but it really is just a group of rowdy leftists that do not tolerate liberalism of any manner. Defederation has resulted in an inflated mythology surrounding them, as though they are a pack of rabid animals, but if you go on their site it’s pretty normal for a leftist space.

        • Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee
          12·
          7 months ago

          but if you go on their site it’s pretty normal for a leftist space

          A dirtbag left space, certainly. You’ll get dogpiled for most any dissenting opinions, but it’s generally “here’s [link] where you’re dumb and wrong, do better” not “kys bootlicker”.

          I don’t get ppb as the peak of comedy, they can keep that

          • the post of tom joad@sh.itjust.works
            6·
            7 months ago

            I tried finding the point of that opinion piece you linked and found only frustration. Not going after you but the author really. On a different note, could you tell me what ppb is? I looked it up and only found parts per billion

            • Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee
              7·
              7 months ago

              I think that’s the point, no? They’re enthusiastic, but turn that energy into online spaces to argue. Yes there’s organizing in meatspace, but largely devolves into online circle-jerks. Like us all.

              Ppb

              • the post of tom joad@sh.itjust.works
                4·
                7 months ago

                To your point about organizing there are seemingly more folks on there who do it for real, i don’t have numbers tho just vibes from hearing peeps on there talking about their work. Ymmv. But you’re not chiding them for not being political enough are you? They have no more responsibility to do that than you or i do (a responsibility i personally haven’t risen to since Bernie).

                Ppb

                Ahhhahaha i should have known. But i love ppb (and all their cool custom emojis) so we’ll have to disagree on that one.

    • FireTower@lemmy.world
      5·
      7 months ago

      I don’t think people view it as a den of wolves more so a small car filled with clowns. Their instance code of conduct requires a trigger warning to show a picture of an egg.