I honestly don’t believe I will have any legal trouble because I don’t do anything like cp or worse, I just pirate media I like, not even porn. But across users of communities, or on public trackers, is IP exposure something to be concerned about?
It’s good opsec to have a VPN when torrenting but thats largely due to the risk of being identified commiting a crime.(Or at the very least, having your ISP send you an angry letter about copyright infringement)
If thats not part of your threat model, then you dont need to worry.
Or you live in a country that purelly doesn’t care about it to the point you can have a seedbox running 24/7 throught your network.
Bonus points if it also shows your “location” to be 100km away. To the point that it sometimes shows you to be in another country next to your.
Another point when it changes your public ip address dailly.
The general philosophy: they can’t prosecute the entire populous.
If everyone is pirating, they focus on the ones who pirate the worst shit or the ones who pirate the most shit for profit.
In a sea of pirates, you don’t get tagged.
If people stop pirating, the bar for too extreme or too much lowers.
They do pirate the most extreme and the most prolific pirates, however.
A story as old as time.
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Pretty much.
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dont give 'em anything to fuck with you down the road. seems a no brainer. “Mrs. TheHooligan95? ahh yes we are here to confiscate your home because your son TheHooligan95 illegally downloaded Ninja Kods 3 back in 2001. No, you cant talk to your son. He was already executed for corporate treason this reason.”
This sounds accurate
People have and will be executed for dumber reasons.
White rich girl picked you out of the lineup. Don’t worry, DNA science won’t prove you’re innocent for another decade after justice has been carried out.
Use I2P guys. The more the better. It is Foss and is 100 times better then any VPN. It is only a bit slower sometimes.
Just use I2P? Can you access public trackers via I2P or do you have to use the crap internal ones?
Internal only sadly iirc
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In my country it is illegal to share, but not illegal to download, since when consuming you’re not meant as a websurfer to know the source of that something. Should that law change, it cannot retroactively affect something that happened in the past. So I don’t plan ever to share anything publicly, but only the very few things I’m very passionate about to the point I want to share them with communities of friends which you can access through invites only. Sharing a back up copy with your friends is not illegal either even if the EULA or whatever says it is, unlike for example in the UK.
I was specifically asking about cybersecurity in general.
In my country it is illegal to share
But torrenting means you’re also sharing.
Yes but you didn’t create the torrent first
But who created it is irrelevant, the seeding is the legal issue.
I think that’s not necessarily true. There’s certainly some good reasons to have a distinction between the original uploader and all the rest of the additional seeders. It’s going to come down to local law.
An analogy is if you buy some illicit substance and split it up with a few friends who pay you their share. Whether or not your local authorities considers you an illegal drug dealer could be highly dependent on scale, profitability, frequency, clientele, etc. Those details could be the difference between a slap on the wrist and some hard time.
I can’t speak for every obscure jurisdiction that might exist, but I’ve never heard of that being a factor.
I don’t know the laws that well, but there is a distinction in Canadian law between uploading and downloading. I’m not entirely sure how applicable to torrenting that is, but I think there’s a reasonable argument that if you are the original uploader, you must have uploaded the content in it’s entirety, whereas that’s not necessarily true for anyone else downloading the torrent, and certainly not provably so.
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In some countries private law firms chase down infringers on behalf of copyright holders. They then attempt shakedowns with the threat of legal action if you don’t pay. They have a financial interest to catch people, and moral compasses vary.
Also, mistakes can happen (you, your family, guests using your wifi, in the courts, in the ISPs, in the law firms, in the tech they are using to identify people). Shit happens.
And if (when) it happens, then you would still have to deal with it, costing you time and money.
Understand the risks and make choices to minimize them if you can.
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Don’t apologize, your answer was the most informative
Worse than CP?
NM, I don’t want to know.
Best to log off the Internet for the last time then, before it’s too late.
I just pirate media I like
In other words, your computer is downloading stuff from other computers, that’s potentially receiving stolen property, but a potential argument might be that you didn’t know that it was stolen. It’s not a good argument, but it’s an argument. So you’re an individual who potentially broke the law. Depending on how much money you have, you might get a knock on your door.
But then, you also distribute that potentially stolen property to other computers, because that’s how BitTorrent works, and now you’re part of a distribution network dealing with stolen property. The chances that once you’ve discovered you come away with just a slap on the wrist are slim to none.
How do they find you?
Through your IP address.
How?
By figuring out who owns that address, who loaned it to you to get online at that specific time. One packet at a time the research will bring them closer to knocking on your door.
So, is it a big deal that your public IP address is linked to torrenting? Yes it is.
Is this the whole story? Not by a long shot, but it’s not my job to teach you how to break the law.
but it’s not my job to teach you how to break the law.
It sounds like it’s literally not against the law where this person lives. Like The Pirate Bay when it began, they responded to US lawyers sending them takedown requests by pointing out that US law didn’t apply to every country on the planet.
That could change in the future, sure, but I think that this person probably has a better idea of whether that’s a possibility in their home country than we do.
Meh. I don’t know about OP but where I live ISPs are forced to relay the legal notice, but nothing more happens. There is no prosecution and nobody will knock on my door.
I have been torrenting on and off since the protocol exists and never once hid my IP. My ISP relays me the threats from the industry, I ignore them, and continue what I was doing before. Same for everyone in my country. Those that end up paying for a VPN and hiding their IP are just intimidated onto doing so, because of the threats. But again, aside from getting that threatening email, nobody will knock on your door for torrenting here.
In Australia an ISP went to extreme lengths to have a ruling, spending four years in litigation:
https://torrentfreak.com/iinet-isp-not-liable-for-bittorrent-piracy-high-court-rules-120420/
That’s excellent for their clients. I’m guessing it set a precedent and the industry stopped trying anything else.
I didn’t follow the most recent developments here in Canada but AFAIK, a decade ago the industry tried to sue individuals that were “pirating”, and lost because they couldn’t proof that an IP could be associated with a single person, or something like that. Then the industry pretty much stopped trying to sue individuals from that point. They still send the threatening letters, but they don’t do anything else because past experiences with our courts didn’t go well for them.
Of course, there is a very very slim chance that the industry will try to sue a few individuals to scare others and create a new precedent, but it’s going to be a civil suit because it’s not even criminal here.
it did, basically in Australia content owners are free to demand restitution for the actual loss suffered (ie the cost of a dvd) and if you ignore them, they are free to take you to small claims court over it, wearing the cost of doing so. so it essentially ended copy claims
Yeah i agree I torrent only occasionally and I haven’t ever received an ISP angry letter but that’s sounds right to me …
The only thing I never understood is if I use a VPN my traffic is passed encrypted to a remote server somewhere else but from there on its unencrypted so the servers owner ISP should notify him about my inlecit traffic and it make sense he will notify me back so what’s the point in relocating an angry letter… ?
Torrent on public access wifi from McDonald’s, the local library, your neighbor’s unsecured router, etc…
If you think that will protect you, there is a lot for you to learn…
Pray tell how they would find the user from an IP address that will resolve to a location other than where they live that they connect to anonymously?
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I think McDonald’s makes you make an account these days to use their WiFi, I could be wrong, however. This means you now have identifying information about you and your connection on McDonald’s servers, which can be subpoenaed in an investigation.
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Local libraries generally require you to have a Libary Card, which is associated with your library login. Because lots of people need library computers, they need to be able to get people to leave the computer without having to physically remove them. One of those ways is with tracking who is connecting by associating their account with a library card and disconnecting them automatically after a period of time. Your library usually wants you to live (or at least exist in) the neighborhood, and will have your name and address on file. This can also be subpoenaed in an investigation.
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MAC address spoofing is trivial, sure, but a lot of folks don’t know to do it, and in any one of these cases, if they used the MAC address that was burned in when the product was sold, they have a real opportunity to nail down which specific device connected. They would subpoena the manufacturer for records of where that device was sold, they would subpoena the records of the local retail outlet, and have information on the sale of the device used to connect.
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In your neighbors case, you could just be condemning them to civil or criminal liabilities, depending on the laws in your jurisdiction. That’s a pretty “not nice” thing to do.
I’m sure there’s plenty of others. Those are just off the top of my head. Most of the reasons involve “companies keeping information about who uses their services and how,” often called “logs.”
There’s a lot more information than just an IP being sent in a TCP packet.
To be clear, I’m not the person you were responding to originally and I think OP is fine if piracy is legal where they live, you just asked how it would be possible and so I tried to think of ways related to the suggestions you made. Cheers.
What if my neighbor is an asshole who deserves it tho? :p
lol ya got me
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“I’m going to offload my need to be technically literate in order to pirate to my local library and let them deal with the problem because I’m an entitled asshole who shits where I eat and doesn’t realize I’ll get in trouble anyway.”
A lot of businesses and libraries block the ports needed to torrent or do much of anything beyond basic web access. Some places, especially libraries, will also have web filters in place to further complicate access to torrent sources. Even if by chance you could find a place that has those ports open and can get past the filters, as others have said, it is still possible for them to have enough information to identify you.
If you do use a VPN for torrenting, ensure it supports port forwarding. You won’t be able to seed if the provider doesn’t allow port forwarding. Sharing is caring :)
AirVPN is currently one of the best VPNs that support port forwarding, but there’s some others that do, too. NordVPN doesn’t support it. There’s an old list here: https://old.reddit.com/r/VPNTorrents/comments/s9f36q/list_of_vpns_that_allow_portforwarding_2022/
Torrenting/seeding works great with Mullvad, which doesn’t have port forwarding
How though? People that want the torrent can’t connect to you if you’re not forwarding a port.
You can connect to them though. Peers that have their ports open can allow seeders to connect to them
Do seeds actively connect to peers even when the download is complete? I haven’t used BitTorrent in a very long time, but it didn’t used to do that.
I am not sure, possibly not. Of course this isn’t the ideal scenario, this is why port forwarding is still recommended, but you probably still get away without using it, if you download mostly freeleach and popular torrents. That way you can 1:1 the ratio during the download.
You can connect to people who have their ports open but not people who don’t, when your ports aren’t open
Assuming the government defs doesn’t care and wont cooperate with lawsuits.
Yes and no. Knowing your IP is sort of like knowing a PO box you rent. It can be used to try and transmit stuff to you, it can also be crudely geolocated, or if the person you’re buying it from gives you up it can be traced directly to you as a person.
If someone wanted to, and you had terrible safety practices (such as opening mail you aren’t expecting, the digital equivalent would be having software listening to ports) they could send you something harmful but this is probably not very likely unless you are pissing powerful people off (e.g. you’re using that IP to distribute anti mossad documentaries or something :P). Your biggest threat is that somebody finds out who you are by going to your ISP and making them give you up.
If you are confident that this is very high effort and you are a small fish it’s not much of a risk.
Oh man, normally I don’t respond to these kinds of posts because I’m always worried I’ll just be helping someone that does CP. BUt, since you 100% definitely don’t, which I think is really cool that you don’t btw, I’m going to give you the advice that you shouldn’t be concerned about IP exposure.
I’m in the same boat. There have been numerous copyright lawsuits that have been thrown out by the courts in my country; however, I pirate because I’m poor AF so I can’t afford a VPN anyway.
inb4 someone recommends a cheap VPN: No.
Cheap VPNs typically are cheap for a reason, and those reasons typically make them not worth the savings (like logging data and selling it)
Of course if your country doesn’t care then sail away brother and be sure to seed
My country unfortunately cares a lot so a VPN is mandatory for me
I am selfhosting VPN for 2.49$ a month. Speed is up to 700 mbps in my case and I have additional services like PiHole + unbound.
If you’re self-hosting a VPN that you’re using for piracy, you’ll still have an unique IP associated with you, and your hosting provider knows that you’re using that IP. Doesn’t that defeat the purpose?
But if the server is located in a piracy-friendly country, doesn’t that solve the problem?
If you’re “self hosting VPN” then both your ingress and outgoing VPN servers are showing THEIR I.P. address publicly, which is then tied back to you through DNS/Hosting services, so, Lucy, splain that to me
Simple: make friends with someone with high speed internet who’s not very savvy, keep up the charade until they allow you to borrow their computer. Then you install a headless vpn server with logging disabled. Boom, high speed local VPN that doesn’t point to you. Just buy them a $2.50 beer once a month to keep up pretenses in case you need to do maintenance.
lulz
To find out my real IP address, you need to contact a hosting provider that is registered in a country with laws that allow it not to cooperate with authorities.
How on earth do you selfhost a VPN?? I’ve never heard of that
The majority of VPNs are self-hosted. The most common use cases for a VPN are things like connecting to an employer’s network when working from home, or connecting to your home server when away from home.
Commercial VPNs that route all your traffic through them aren’t the usual VPN use case. They’ve become common mostly because people don’t know how to use proxies, and they make it easy to ensure everything is routed via the VPN. A lot of use cases that people use VPNs for could really be solved with proxies.
TIL! Thanks!
is your country a member state in WTO? are your copyright laws compatible with that of the US? does your country recognise foreign copyright claims from the countries that your pirated media comes from?
your worst risk as someone who just pirates safe media for personal consumption is getting a letter from your isp and that only happens if there are laws against it on the books and your isp feels threatened. if your country simply doesn’t enforce its copyright laws it’s unlikely you’ll be chosen to be punished to set an example (they’ll most certainly target notorious distributors) and your chance of getting sued by a media company amongst thousands of potential defendants in what i assume is a third world country is almost non existent.
It’s a security risk but it’s not a legal problem
I lived in Cambodia and the gov doesn’t really care about pirating media and games so I can pirate as much as I wanted but ironically they arrested one of the pirate bay founder here and deported him back to Sweden
It’s more up to the isp. I torrented VPN free for a couple years when I lived in Burlington, Vermont and used the Burlington Telecom ISP. No copyright letter, no fees, and no legal issue.
