What’s funny about this is there’s never been anything edgy about Jerry Seinfeld’s standup act. And as far as Seinfeld goes he was barely involved in the writing. That was all Larry David and other talented writers. Of 180 episodes Jerry Seinfeld had 18 writing credits and all of them were shared with Larry David. Of those 18 credits 5 were in the first season which is undeniably the show’s weakest and most forgettable. Jerry was always just the name. Larry was the talent.
I guess that’s probably why Larry David just wrapped the final season of Curb this year while never once complaining about “not being allowed to do comedy” anymore like Jerry is. Turns out, you’ve always been allowed to do whatever comedy you like, you just have to actually be funny.
It’s also funny because It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia is still airing too, and that is massively more edgy than anything seinfeld ever did.
I think that the problem is that jerry want to be edgy and still be considered the good guy. Which is not how Curb, IASIP or even the Seinfeld tv show ever was. They always were presented as bad/flawed people doing bad stuff. You 100% can still do that type of comedy. But you can’t do comedy where the characters are supposed to be good but do bad stuff
It’s also funny because It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia is still airing too, and that is massively more edgy than anything seinfeld ever did.
And that’s always been my argument when it comes to this particular dead horse. I don’t think any jokes are off the table, you just really have to make whatever discomfort you’re summoning be worth the punchline. The edgier something is the more it has to be funny to compensate, the point of offensive humor is to be funny not to offend, right? This has to be common sense. I don’t get how it flies over the head of so many people.
There are a lot of people who seem to think offending is all it takes. I think Sam McMurray’s character “Glen” in Raising Arizona, who is constantly telling “jokes” about Polish people being stupid that none of the other characters find funny, is a perfect example of the type.
Exactly. Either risk it and have a big payoff, or insert a point behind it. Make the audience think after they laugh, or search within themselves why that was funny, or the context behind the joke.
Or if you go for the edgy or dark joke, and get called out - you rolled that die, live with it. Crying “it’s just a joke” or “comedy is cancelled” after your bit failed to land is hacky
Same thing with folks who say they are in to the ‘brutal honesty’ thing, it should be about the honesty…essentially it’s about the earnestness of the thing instead of just using comedy/etc as cover to be an asshole (like Chappel).
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Thats corporate culture ruining it.
Don’t bother, the guy posted “if it ain’t white it ain’t right” in another post.
Just another boring 20 something white guy trying to feel powerful by inciting others. Just block him and forget his existence, everyone else will too.
Yawn.
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Better than sucking fash cock.
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Aww did they hurt your feefees? Does the snowflake need a safe space?
Cry some more baby bitch fash.
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That’s a lie.
Man that whole ‘being funny’ thing sounds really hard
Curb Your Enthusiasm is one of the best & funniest shows I’ve ever seen
It’s just years of “what’s the deal with ______________” jokes, and 4 of the shittiest narcissistic people ever.
Are you talking about Seinfeld the show? The show is amazing. Jerry Seinfeld just isn’t funny as a comedian.
Yes, I’m talking about the show. I didn’t find it amazing, and felt that all of them going to jail in the end was a bit overdue
Weird how these woke kids keep killing comedy while still being the best comedians, and it’s always the ones leaning on their 30+ year old sets that think it’s a problem.
What is the deal with airline food, anyway?
What’s the deal with time passing? It just happens! You don’t want it to, but it does. One day you’re riding high, one hand on Larry David’s coattails and the other up some high school girl’s skirt. You’re thinking, “I’m gonna be on top forever. Everyone loves me now and it’s always gonna be this way.” Then the next day you’re complaining about woke on a drive time radio show with Kid Rock. What’s his deal anyway? He’s not a rock, or even a kid. He’s a man. He should be called Man Man.
You know who had a 30 year old set that was still awesome and hysterical to the very end? The Amazing Jonathan.
I got to see him in Vegas probably a few years before he died, he was doing shows in what amounted to a fancy conference room somewhere. I was the person called up to the stage, and even though I knew every single thing he was going to say and do, it was still just funny. I got to look him right in the eyes up close, and it was clear that he knew he was doing the same set he’s done forever, in a conference room. and it seemed like we both knew that “WTF am I doing here?” added a whole other layer of funny to the whole thing.
Maybe I was reading too much into it. Maybe it was just the methamphetamine.
The deal with airline food has nothing to do with the food, but everything to deal with the dry, low preassure air in an airplane lowering the sensitivity of our tastebuds, making thw food taste bland.
It’s not low pressure. The cabin is pressurized to 5k feet.
Are you saying that people that live in Colorado or other high altitude locations have trouble enjoying their food because of “low pressure”? The answer is no.
The reason airline food sucks is because it’s highly processed and filled with preservatives to keep it “fresh”. In other words the food sucks.
And the issue with the joke is that it’s painfully obvious that serving meals to thousands of passengers on a cramped metal tube that’s sensitive to weight would result in something less than gourmet. THAT’S the deal with airline food. As an offhand comment from a sympathetic stranger sharing your experience, it’s mildly amusing. As performed humor, it’s lazy and not funny.
I don’t know if Jerry specifically ever did airline food (but he probably did). Still, it describes pretty much the entirety of his stand-up.
I think it just goes to show how out of touch he is.
Reality is airlines stopped serving food a long time ago outside of international travel, which means most young people today haven’t even experienced this before.
It’s hard to be funny when you don’t even relate to your audience. Thing is Seinfeld was “funny” in the 90s when his comedy was more relevant.
Since then the world has changed dramatically and his comedy has stayed stagnant. He’s behind the times. It’s not that comedy in general is dead. It’s just his view that died because the world changed and he did not change with it. Happens to most comedians.
Maron is still going strong, thankfully. I like Seinfeld’s Netflix show, but haven’t seen any stand up of his for years… I could see it being rough.
It is absolutely low preassure compared to sea level.
Also, note that I said it was a combination with very dry air.
Of course. But it isn’t enough to make any difference on your sense of taste.
At least not big enough to justify naming the entire reason for why airline food sucks.
The food sucks because the food sucks. There is no other reason. You aren’t going to convince anyone otherwise.
The food sucks because the food sucks. There is no other reason.
This is absolutely a part of it, but you are simplifying it too much, here is a BBC article about the issue:
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150112-why-in-flight-food-tastes-weird
while still being the best comedians
can you recommend some?
If you haven’t heard it: Bill Burr Philadelphia Rant.
Look it up on YouTube. It’s unfortunately a crappy video, but the audio is straight gold. For 30 whole minutes it’s just Burr trashing the audience and Philadelphia and its perfection. Better than any stand up of the last few years because it’s organic and in the moment.
Bo Burnham is also fantastic if you want something introspective at the same time. Inside, by Bo Burnham was a critical piece of Covid media.
Bill Burr Philly
That was 2006.
Burr kills but is not new, nor is he a ‘kid’.
I have a favorite link that for “full stand up comedy special” on YouTube and new ones pop up like every day. Listen to it on my commute, shower, dishes, etc.
As a comedian you either die funny or live long enough to become a reactionary shit bag.
I don’t think he was ever funny. Larry David may have been funny, and Seinfeld was fortunate enough to be involved with the show, but Jerry himself has always been a poor comedian and a tool.
I think Seinfeld was pretty funny in the 80s. His style of observational comedy was fresh back then though. Then there were a million Seinfeld copycats and there wasn’t anything special about him anymore.
The same thing happened with Carlin. So he kept reinventing himself and updating his comedy with the times and that’s why people loved him until the day he died.
Carlin got better as he got older. His shtick was always tight fast well rehearsed dense sets but he went from mostly irreverent to actually saying something. And he was still able to be so funny while clearly getting so angry.
Carlin was an artist. He could tread that line between offense and enlightening. Like I could sometimes feel my hackles go up watching him, even back in the 90s, but like you said, you really got the feeling like he was trying to communicate something real and important to him. That goes a long way to buying good will and keeping people listening, even as they’re feeling slightly defensive.
I guess that’s authenticity.
He peaked at Bee movie
It was the supporting cast that even gave that movie a chance at being funny. Mathew Broderick, Rip Torn and Patrick Warburton did a lot of heavy lifting.
Absolutely. He always came off as an arrogant prick and none of his shit was funny to me. But I might have missed many a point because I’m not from the USA.
I never liked the show because of him specifically. It’s my understanding that they’re all supposed to be bad people, but this is the same case with Always Sunny and I find the gang to be very likable. I didn’t at first, but they grew on me once I realized they were supposed to be degenerates and sociopaths. But with Seinfeld I have never been able to get over the hump.
Honestly, there are a few memorable episodes but most of it was pretty lame IMO.
The only reason I watched Seinfeld is it was what was on
The episode where George and Jerry pretend to be the names printed on a limo driver’s placard in order to get a free ride from the airport and end up getting driven to a white supremacist rally was the peak of the show, but after watching Curb Your Enthusiasm it’s pretty obvious whose sense of humor produced that one.
The show was hilarious.
It’s just that Seinfeld was the least funny cast member in literally every episode.
Seinfeld was hilarious back in his day.
He was the least funny and interesting character in “Seinfeld”, too. Even most side characters like George’s parents added more than him.
What does reactionary mean other than just being an insult?
It means he lacks the ability to reinvent his comedy to fit the times. Instead he just complains.
We all need to continue to reinvent ourselves over time. Things change. We need to retool for the times ahead. Reality is Seinfeld doesn’t need to because he already made his money.
So instead of him getting back on the horse he just sits back and complains like the out of touch old turd that he is. He sucks but just can’t accept it or admit it. It’s easier to whine.
He is a has-been and never will be again.
I agree he’s not funny, but that’s not really how most people use reactionary
“Reactionary” means regressive conservative/anti-progressive. It originates from, as much political terminology on the regressive vs. progressive divide does (including the terms “left”, “right”, and “conservative” themselves), the French revolution, where people who favored opposing the revolution (i.e. reacting to the revolution) were called “réactionnaires” in French.
Here’s the first known usage of the word in English, from a 1799 English translation of Lazare Carnot’s letter on the Conspiracy of the 18th Fructador.
Interesting, but I often see it used not for people who oppose any form of change, but for people who oppose a specific change. And it’s intended to be more slanderous than conservative.
Reactionary can be seen as a more extreme version of conservatism.
Conservatives want to keep things as they are and oppose change.
Reactionaries want to turn back to some previous, supposedly better state.
Seinfeld would have had to die in adolescence for that do happen.
He’s gone full Bill Maher.
“Is my comedy stale and out of touch? No, it is the audience who are wrong.”
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I listened to much of the interview on the radio. He touched on a lot of good points and then came to the absolutely wrong conclusion. He talked about how many writing rooms are “writing by committee” where jokes will go through a review by many different groups. If this is truly the case (I don’t know) that is not an issue if the “far left mob” but rather the enshitification of comedy due to corporations and Wall Street bankrolling these productions wanting to ensure return on investment. This kills creativity by reducing risks. Topical comedy is a risky medium by default.
Also, shout out to Rob McElhenney for his sarcastic one word response. In Jerry’s imagined world, It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia can’t exist.
Had to look up said response and I agree. For anyone else looking, here’s a screenshot of what I found:
But see, he wants it to be funny because he thinks making fun of homeless people is funny. It would instead be funny because of how fucking stupid Kramer is. That’s really the big turn in recent comedy: laughing at bad characters doing shitty things (and usually getting their comeuppance) instead of laughing at shitty things happening to people.
But the thing is… writing by committee has always been the norm- including for Seinfeld, which makes me wonder how much he was actually involved in the writing process.
The very idea of a writer’s room is writing by committee.
I got the sense he meant more that it would go up through business-side committees to double check the work and make sure it wasn’t inappropriate. If that was the case that again would be an indication of corporations being risk adverse.
That’s also always been the case.
It’s stupid for Jerry Seinfeld, of all people, to claim that executives don’t constantly meddle in shows to make sure audiences don’t get pissed off.
people seeing issues brought about by capitalism and concluding that the people who are fighting against capitalism are the REAL problem, a tale as old as time.
You really think the average Barbie-watching lefty can be equated to the communism bordering Lemmy dweller? Please, just because they’re not on the right doesn’t make them the same.
The first season of its always Sunny would definitely be canceled (if debuted) today
The first season doesn’t even come close to the worst things the gang did.
It wouldnt even make it to season 2 though
No, no it wouldn’t.
I see platforms cancelling or existing episodes and seasons all the time, there’s is still up
That’s because it already has a huge following. I’m saying if that season one debuted now it would. Just like tropic Thunder hasn’t been pulled but I doubt they’d let it today
edit: so all the downvotes imply you all say that a white guy in black face can air today? yea no way, y’all trippin hive mind shit. I’d love to see someone try lol
Good comedy is made for the time period its in!?! WHO WOULDA THOUGHT?
Thats the point, what you can air has absolutely changed. yet downvotes from stating that fact
And what could air when Tropic Thunder came out had absolutely changed from the 10 years before that, the times change, who knew
That’s always the last bastion of people arguing against it happening. Throwing up their hands and saying “things change”.
Wow, what an insightful addition to the discussion you absolute dingus. Nobody is denying that things change, what is argued is that the overly woke mindset has a negative effect on said evolution. Maybe next year when your favourite orange man gets back in the office, we’ll just throw up our hands and say that things change without asking the question why we got there, sound like a plan to you? Or do you think that sometimes it might be a good idea to reflect on why we end up where we do?
A dislike for conservatism does not mean that every change is progress, you know.
I really don’t know, you may be right. I feel like that whole season was them tackling tough to swallow social issues by making themselves idiots at best or bigots at worst, but the satire and irony was clear in their intent to expose as as an outdated way to think.
Too
nuanced-compicated and fancy for today’s viewing public.Soon it will all be farts and nutshots.
Tune in to Ow My Balls
Yeah, things were so much less politically correct in- *checks notes* 2005.
What the fuck are you talking about?
People could still laugh at themselves, and people still recognized absurdity for what it was.
People still laugh at themselves now. People still recognize absurdity for what it is. Go watch a show like Abbott Elementary.
I have seen that show, and it was good, but alao focused to meet network standards that evolve glacially.
Its not standup.
Sorry… you think shows in 2005 weren’t focused? Really? I don’t know what golden age of comedy you think 2005 was, but it wasn’t one.
Chapelle Show, Its Always Sunny, several others from this very thread. Yes golden comedy was happening in 2005.
Even the Bill Burr Philly Rant is from 2006.
Good shit.
Edit: and Tough Crowd had just ended. Sadly.
Yeah that’s why edgy comedian like Jimmy Carr has released 2 Netflix specials in last 3 years. And he, unlike Seinfeld, isn’t whining about ‘kids these days’.
There’s a shit ton of good young comedians. Jerry is an old man telling kids to get off his lawn.
Jerry is an old man telling kids to get off his lawn.
i think i crossed the middle aged boundary because my head is filled with “those damn kids!” thoughts and i hoping that the fact that i’m still a stereotypical broke ass millennial that will never be able to afford his own lawn will help keep me young somehow.
You should read up on juvenoia (sp?). Vsauce did a great video on the topic. Helps keep you grounded when you struggle with the thoughts of are the kids wrong or am I just out of touch. Spoiler, they are no more wrong than we ever were as kids, and yes we are out of touch with the youth. But it’s all ok as long as you accept that there can be things you don’t understand or that just aren’t meant for you.
That’s a great way to look at it.
Also remember, you’re the oldest guy you saw when you were the kids age.now i have a new word that accurately describes the impetus for the tik tok ban; thanks for that.
Yeah, but Jimmy Carr’s greatest achievement is beating Father Time by transforming himself into a plastic vampire. Jerry Seinfeld’s greatest achievement is making a movie where a bumblebee cucks Kronk.
I love Kronk, but immortality > bee sex.
Or Chapelle
But in chapelle’s case, chapelle ruined comedy
His latest special was incredible.
They’ve certainly killed right-leaning comedians like Seinfeld, Bill Maher, Dennis Miller and (can’t believe he made the list) Dave Chappelle.
Or maybe they killed themselves by just getting even lamer with their unfunny jokes that punch down at marginalized groups. 🤔
That’s weird about this to me, I never would have called Seinfeld right leaning. Like every one of his standups I’ve ever seen is very neutral, and the show was actually pretty progressive for the time. Chapelle did the punching down, got called out on it (rightfully so), and then doubled down and swung to the right because now he’s the victim! But as far as I know, Jerry didn’t do anything (In terms of jokes, ignoring the… youthfulness… issues for the moment) He just decided to bust out with I’m a victim too stop censoring me? Was there any preface to all this?
I think it’s just anger about being out of touch. You can’t make comedy in a vacuum, it necessarily draws on contemporary culture, and Jerry’s probably feeling a bit left in the dust. But he frames it in a way where he feels victimized. That’s my reading for most embarrassing or offensive old comedians though, so maybe I’m painting with too broad a brush.
Real problem is that so many basic things, like we should treat each other decently, or that the earth is warming, shouldn’t be political issues. But here we are. And somehow these things become political in conservative circles and thus they are political to liberal circles too.
Now you can’t even say “what’s the deal with airline food” because even that gets political. Greenhouse gas emissions from flying planes, vegetarian and kosher options in flight, paper straws, airline bailouts, take your pick of where to go next, all political.
That’s because Larry David was the primary writer on Seinfeld.
ignoring the… youthfulness… issues
What a fucking euphemism lol for fucks sake
I wouldn’t be surprised if all his backlash is because he’s a fucking pervert
He didn’t do anything in his comedy shows no. Comedians in cars with coffee got pretty right slanted pretty fuckin quick.
It did? Maybe it’s been a while and I don’t remember but it seemed fine at the time.
Anti liberal ideology is introduced in almost every episode, it’s just slightly veiled.
He even talks cancel culture on the Michael Richards episode. I like Kramer but you scream the hard r a dozen or more times and you deserve everything you get.
Fair enough. Pretty sure I skipped that episode because I just didn’t really care to hear Richards try and rehab his image.
Even the Jim Carrey episode was a bit iffy and I love Jim Carrey movies.
OP mentioned 3 prominent Democrats as examples of right-wingers. You can have opinions that aren’t lock-step with whatever the current hot button issues are without being a right-winger. Democrats are supposed to be the more independently thinking party, but we’re seeing a hell of a lot of tribalism these days from both parties. It’s honestly pretty disturbing.
He just decided to bust out with I’m a victim too stop censoring me?
He probably finally realized that people don’t find him funny and wanted to have his name int the news again.
Have you seen any of his recent stand up?
Yeah the Dave Chappelle one came way outta right field lol that PIC with Taylor majore Greene idk how to spell it was unexpected or I’m uninformed
I think you mean left field just fyi
I was trying to be funny lol
Why does it matter?
If you are a running batter in baseball (where the term originated), then the ball being thrown from left field seems as if it came out of nowhere.
Damn, all these years and I never realized that’s what it literally meant. I always knew what the expression meant figuratively but not its literal origin.
Ok, but it was understood what they meant
Since when is Dennis Miller a right winger? Bill Maher has always been a vocal member of the Democratic party.
Both seemed to have turned recently. Both of them in recent stand up specials they’ve released since 2019 have said, on stage, they are Republicans and expressed views consistent with that in their routines. It was a shock to me, considering I remember them being very anti-conservative back in the 90’s.
Seems like people just age into being conservative.
They said they’re Republicans, or they expressed viewpoints that people considered to be aligned with Republicans?
Both.
Dennis Miller has been part of the Fox News hosting and commentary family for a long time now.
I seem to remember Maher seeming more leftist at some point, but that might be because of his unabashed atheism. He’s always been insufferably arrogant though.
He’s a leftist that doesn’t like PC culture or identity politics. He does believe in equality, inclusion, and those sorts of principles, but he doesn’t agree with the way we’re going about seeking those things.
Economic reductionist would be the term, right? The “we fix the economy and regulate corporations and racism will fix itself” viewpoint?
That’s not a view that I’ve ever heard him express, but I haven’t heard much from him in years. He used to be outspoken about global warming, and the environment. He was the first celebrity to buy an electric car all the way back in like 1996, I think it was called the Honda Insight. He was pro-gay rights, pro-women’s rights, and a lot of other issues you’d consider Democrat. But he also mocked PC culture, and even had a show called Politically Incorrect. Last time I heard about him he seemed pretty much like the same person, but society has changed. I guess if you retain your same “progressive” views from 30 years ago, and social views change and progress, then you’re kind of “conserving” old views, even though you weren’t a conservative at one point. That’s probably why people appear to become more conservative as they get older. They haven’t actually changed, they just stopped agreeing with the direction of progress.
Oh I was just guessing that was the case, you seem way more informed than me here though
Can’t tell you the exact year but DM became a right wing pundit some years back
Man I don’t think it’s fair for Chappelle to be on the list. I wouldn’t even call him right-leaning, but in today’s sociopolitical landscape, anything not left-leaning is by default right-leaning and all centrists or near-neutrals are closet fascists who want to pick the worst candidate at all times because that’s what their satanic cult taught them to do, according to social science graduates. Just like how unprovoked hatred towards men or whites is never sexist or racist because men were historically oppressors.
The court of public opinion really do be wil’in sometimes frfr but hey I guess at least they have some science to back them up…
Anyway, as always, downvote and insult away, idgaf about ur opinion or whether mine digress’ from the status quo
edit: all this said, I never found Chappelle funny and his social commentary was hit/miss
Eeeeeh, Chappelle’s views on trans people are pretty fucked up.
What views exactly? I don’t recall anything that sounded super fucked up, but I do recall some incendiary remarks that were pretty dick-ish.
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How though? Dave Chapelles last Netflix special was 2023 and he fills halls in 2024, the same year in which he won another Grammy.
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Honestly, to me that seems to be evidence that they were never good but just lucky.
They never understood how to play with expectations or culture. How to shock people with the absurd nature of reality. They never understood comedy. They just happened to say stuff that people liked. Maybe because they were famous? And just as fame makes you pretty, it makes you funny?
I don’t know but clearly they never understood their craft. Pure luck got them away.
The irony here is that your comment seems to suggest that you don’t understand comedy. Comedy is not about “saying funny stuff”, it’s the ability to say anything and make it funny, it takes skill, and above all, it especially requires them to “understand expectations and culture”.
Why do people always find it necessary to undermine the success of someone just because you don’t like something they did? It’s perfectly possible, even likely, that these people who are good at something also have flaws. Are you so surprised by that that you suddenly feel the need to question everything they’ve ever done?
Seinfeld became successful because he was good at comedy, Seinfeld is right that a small vocal woke minority has a negative impact on the profession, and yes a 40 year old dating a 17 year old is questionable. These things can all coexist without coming up with some outlandish theory just to convince yourself that the world is not a complex environment that you can’t wrap your head around.
They’re mad that the cool people don’t take their calls, their fan base is boring and chudly
No. It’s not. Comedy clubs have bouncers that shield them from people funnier in the crowd.
I remember seeing a post on r/agedlikemilk which theorised that Russell Brand was leaning more into right wing talking points in anticipation of the looming rape accusations being made public.
I wonder if the same thing is happening here.
Would not surprise me in the slightest you’re right.
I can’t say, but seinfeld has almost a billion dollars. The woman would be a fool not to sue and settle for 10 million or something.
Yeah, how foolish to demand actual justice in form of a criminal conviction for crimes instead of just letting people get away with it by paying hush money.
I somehow did not expect the 17 year old thing to be quite so creepy.
She was a highschooler who he met in a public park when he was 38. JFC.
I can understand maybe thinking she was older when he talked to her and then finding out later she was underage and backing off, but he definitely just went for it. Creep.
Also he only dated her til she got to drinking age!
my favorite part of Seinfeld complaining that woke has killed comedy is that Curb Your Enthusiasm just finished a 24 year, 12 season run and their last season has a 94% on Rotten Tomatoes.
I mean how far can “What’s the deal with crackers?” humour go?
You see, “crackers” means White People. Really, he was trying to start a conversation about race relations. Or was that when Jerry ate a black and white and got sick after comparing the cookie to race relations?
“Extreme left” is such a ridiculous term to use for this sort of thing lmao
boy if they think this is what the extreme left is, they’re in for a fucking ride
Jerry, kids aren’t laughing at you because you’re still doing the same style of comedy you did in the 90s and they don’t think it’s funny.
And I say that as someone who does think he’s funny.
Edit: I did standup in the 90s too (obviously nowhere near his level). There are many reasons why I don’t do it anymore, but realizing that what I was doing was getting out of date was definitely a factor. Get out when you can and people might still think of you fondly.
I watched a woman do stand up recently who looked to be in her late 30s/early 40s. All of it was unironically about those stupid millennial kids and how they’re running comedy because they “are woke”. Seriously.
The material is 20 years out of date and she’s a member of that group (or damn close). I think she stole the act from someone 20 years ago who thought a movie like Tropic Thunder would never get made.
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Last account get banned so you’re back on a fresh sock puppet, eh?
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No one asked, and no one cares about you.
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I dunno, I disagreed with him and and other “commies” and I’m still around. Maybe it’s something else you are doing.
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Don’t worry. Won’t be around for long.
Don’t we all hope.
During the first two years of Seinfeld Jerry would stop by The Howard Stern show once a week trying to get the word out about the show. Howard said multiple times when the show takes off and is doing well Jerry would find a reason to stop coming in. Sure enough Robin reported the story of Jerry dating Shoshanna and Jerry stopped coming on.
Howard kept making fun of this, even sang a song with video intercut during his PPV.
Howard at least never pretended he wasn’t an asshole.
I mean… his movie kind of implied he sort of wasn’t? And also that the marriage that ended not long after was a perfect one.
Seinfeld is very exceptional in that it was a show which featured unapologetically bad people, and glorified them, very effectively.
You can be extremely cynical in your scripting while still holding up characters who have some sort of moral center and are trying to do the right thing. Old-season Simpsons did this very well. The characters are not bad. They are not nice and they have genuine failings, and the situations they find themselves in are not sugarcoated. But, it’s still a show about trying to maintain your humanity, in a pretty realistic portrayal of the grim reality we all find ourselves in. The original “Arrested Development” is similar although a little more upper-class and light hearted.
Maybe I am a corny motherfucker but I do think that it’s important to try to keep your eye on doing the right thing instead of the wrong thing, because it’s real shit that every human being runs into and it’s definitely not easy. Art does influence the ways people behave and the way they perceive the world. Seinfeld is a show about absolute horrible sociopaths, who ruin relationships and other people’s lives over and over again because of their commitment to selfishness, and if you only look superficially, how relatable and fun and entertaining they can be to spend time with, and how easy it is to overlook what abominably bad people they are as long as it all seems fun.
Somewhere there is a video talking about how Jerry Seinfeld is actually one of the darkest comedians working. I don’t even know where I could start to find it, but the guy talks about watching a Seinfeld bit about throwing trash in the movie theater before he leaves for someone else to clean up, and how the guy watching got this chilling feeling he never got from much more serious topics: Like it’s not an act, he genuinely just feels nothing below surface level, and doesn’t give a fuck what happens.
Seinfeld is very exceptional in that it was a show which featured unapologetically bad people, and glorified them, very effectively.
I think that this contrasts rather heavily with It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia. I had a lot of trouble getting into the show because I thought that that was what they were doing. But, in reality, we’re NOT supposed to empathize with or relate to them. The Gang are unapologetically awful people who, despite never really getting what they deserve, cause nearly all of their own problems through their greed and selfishness (plus, Dennis is probably a serial killer).
Yeah I consistently find myself appreciating that show more and more. One of my favorite themes is with the recurring characters. Consistently if they give in to the gang’s bullshit like Cricket their life gets worse and worse, but if like Carmen they don’t their life gets better every time you see them.
And each of the characters seems to understand that the others suck. Like, Mac calls out Dennis and Dee’s rape. Everyone in the gang acknowledges that Charlie is a stalker and that Mac is a hypocrite. It’s a group of terrible people who push away everyone else so they keep coming back to each other.
My favorite episode is definitely the musical. It seems like the one time that The Gang (or most of them) aren’t trying to scheme and genuinely are doing their best. They just sabotage themselves because they’re all too selfish and stupid to not, even when they are trying.
I don’t think it’s either/or. IASIP is good because it both mocks the characters for being awful while simultaneously making you like and empathize with them. You can think someone is horrible and a human that deserves things at the same time. In fact I think what makes that show exceptional is exactly these two viewpoints having truth to them. It would’ve gotten old really fast to me if it was just laughing at assholes.
That’s fair. Like, the spiritual successor to Seinfeld, Always Sunny, is made by people who hate their characters as people. The show goes out of its way to explain to the audience that Dennis and Dee are both rapists because some of the audience didn’t see it. In Seinfeld I can absolutely imagine a scene in which the characters describe sexually violating someone and acting like the victim is overreacting, and the narrative treating that person like they might’ve overreacted. Things are left open to audience interpretation as they consistently act like everyday sociopaths
Seinfeld is very exceptional in that it was a show which featured unapologetically bad people, and glorified them, very effectively.
I think that’s more just the consequence of celebrity. They’re supposed to be normal New Yorkers, which is to say petty and superficial and cheap and rude. And that’s supposed to be a funny thing to watch.
But by the ninth season, you’ve developed a parasocial relationship with them. You find the petty rudeness and the stingy superficiality endearing. And they’ve been one-upping themselves for so long, a lot of it just looks absurd rather than obnoxious.
Somewhere there is a video talking about how Jerry Seinfeld is actually one of the darkest comedians working. I don’t even know where I could start to find it, but the guy talks about watching a Seinfeld bit about throwing trash in the movie theater before he leaves for someone else to clean up, and how the guy watching got this chilling feeling he never got from much more serious topics: Like it’s not an act, he genuinely just feels nothing below surface level, and doesn’t give a fuck what happens.
Go back and listen to “I’m Telling You For The Last Time”, the comedy album he put out right after the show rapped.
I think a lot of the show is Larry David’s own brand of cynical humor. But Seinfield was the perfect vehicle precisely because he’s just this soulless husk of a human being who has filled his emptiness with unlimited money.
this soulless husk of a human being who has filled his emptiness with unlimited money.
If the last 2 decades had a tagline…
Found it on Reddit I think: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/18oeiw/clip_from_jerry_seinfeld_standup_on_letterman_feb/
I agree! I think just about anyone who has stupid amounts of money has no conscience, personally. Maybe Bill Gates a little. But I especially believe that Seinfeld was showing us who he really was during the whole show. Well maybe not the first year when he was relatively normal, but after success hit, I honestly think he just became a narcissist.
Nah, Bill Gates is just like the rest of them. He pushed for a Covid vaccine just so he could own it. The researchers didn’t want to profit from it and he shot that down. Check the Behind the Bastards episode on him.
Ok cool didn’t know that.
And his wife bounced afrer Epstien news dropped.
Ooph, legit reddit vibes with that exchange, as I hadn’t seen BTB referenced on lemmy yet. I need to check out that episode too! Appreciate it
And listen to all of them laughing
“I’m a jackass who throws trash on the floor, hurrdedurr!”
But you have to look at it within the context of the time. At that point, even the horrible people had redeeming qualities. Archie Bunker was a right-wing racist, but his heart was often in the right place. Murphy Brown was horrible to her coworkers, but she fought for the right causes.
And then Seinfeld came out. Everyone in it was horrible. Irredeemably so. There was just nothing else like it at the time.
It also did some really interesting things in terms of experimentation with what you could do with a sitcom, like the episode that takes place entirely while they are waiting in a restaurant for Chinese takeout.
It’s a totally outdated concept now because it’s been done again and again, but it was pretty revolutionary at the time. Personally, I credit this to Larry David, not Jerry Seinfeld.
