I’ve been discussing with my sister (a big fan of her cats) about what lives we would save in an emergency. I think a human live is worth more than an animal’s no question asked but she thinks otherwhise. So to end this discussion I’m writing here.
- Who would you save between your cat and your worst enemy?
- What if it was between your cat and a stranger?
- Why?
I would save my cat every time. I don’t value human life above her life. She’s been there for me for the past 15 years and helped me through the darkest times.
Yeah, my kitties got me through the pan. I lived alone and wasn’t in a relationship and had no car at the time. The isolation was extreme.
That’s so cute, I can’t. Thanks for paying your taxes on time.
I don’t blame you.
Took me a moment to realize the dark mark on her face wasn’t her hind paw.
She’s a Siamese chocolate point. In Siamese cats, there is a mutation for the genes of an enzyme (Tyrosinase) that inhibits the production of melanin above a certain temperature. Where the body temperature is lower (extremities, airways), that enzyme is deactivated and melanin is produced, allowing the fur to darken.
Siamese kitten are born completely white, as their temperature is kept high everywhere in the womb, and rapidly start to color after birth.
This is so interesting! Thanks for the cat fact!
I dislike the belief that human life is worth more than any other animal.
Even if we’re going to argue that, because of intellect or the ability to grasp out own existence or whatever arbitrary philosophical reason we’fe going to come up it, a human life is in general more valuable than that of a cats life, my “worst enemy” would have to be someone so morally corrupt that removing them from the world would make it a better place. This makes is a very pointless question.
A stranger is more of a real discussion. The stranger is enough of an unknown factor that I think I could assume that allowing them to die is likely to have a worse impact on the world, so it makes sense to save them. I certainly wouldn’t be able to say so with enough certainty to fault anyone for disagreeing with me, though.
I feel like the idea that an animal life is worth less than a human life is demonstrably true at a societal level though, right?
Like, we don’t sell human parts at a grocery store to eat, and I feel like people would call it a moral tragedy if we did.
If an animals life is equivalent to a humans, then meat is in fact murder, no?
Yes and no. For one, many vegetarians and vegans would agree, so on some level, sure, that’s a very defensible opinion. Secondly, North American sensibilities would call it a moral tragedy to sell cat or dog parts, so at some point we have to accept that what is and isn’t okay to kill and consume is a question of cultural bias as opposed to moral truth.
Lastly, you can accept the state of the food chain without holding the belief that those at the top of it are “better” or “worth more”. I don’t eat beef because I am, in some universal truth way, worth more than a cow. I eat beef because I accept that in the chaos of existence, this is where the chips fell. I do not feel a sense of superiority for being able to do so. If you’re going to get really strict about it, I’d define “murder” as the act of killing for the sake of killing, and say that killing for consumption and in some cases survival is different. But even then, I recognize that this is bias. If you want to call murder the act of taking a life, I’ve murdered a lot in my life, and I don’t intend on stopping any time soon. Mosquitos won’t squish themselves.
The question of intellect and understanding and the weight of these qualities in the value of a life is a dangerous road to wander down, so I like to keep in perspective that we’re all meaningless specks in the grand scheme of the universe. Otherwise, the questions get even more challenging: to say a truly reprehensible thing, what happens when we replace the human or the animal in question with an exceptionally low functioning human being? Do we now say their life has little value because they can’t contribute to society, they can’t understand the state of their own existence, and in many cases they’re not even capable of verbal communication? Does it become okay to choose to let them die, as in the original question? Are they suddenly fit for consumption as cattle? Or does the responsibility fall on the more capable to protect them?
Appraising and tiering life is an incredibly dangerous road to go down. You can choose any example of historical racism to see just how dangerous it gets. Life is life, and the strange differences between what’s “okay” and what’s not is luck more than anything else. Even as I consume a steak while my dog begs for the scraps, I believe it’s important to keep an understanding of how we got here, else hubris allows us to justify basically any atrocity.
Question: why does my life has more value than my cats? We both think, we both feel. We both have people who love us.
Is mine more valuable because I have a longer lifespan? Are children with terminal cancer less valuable?
Is mine worth more because I’m self aware? I’m pretty sure some cats have shown self awareness with the mirror test.
Sure, I may be smarter. But, does that make me intrinsically more valuable? Why?
I feel like the idea that an animal life is worth less than a human life is demonstrably true at a societal level though, right?
Society will make all sorts of fucked up (and some not-so-fucked up) decisions about what’s acceptable and what’s not, “true” is not the right word here.
Like, we don’t sell human parts at a grocery store to eat, and I feel like people would call it a moral tragedy if we did.
Selling cat parts would be seen as a moral tragedy too, at least in my society.
If an animals life is equivalent to a humans, then meat is in fact murder, no?
Life eats life, an organism that kills for biological need isn’t a murderer (though our diet + modern factory farming system arguably is). Killing a conscious being of any species unnecessarily can be considered murder I’d say. If there was an animal that (still existed anyways) evolved to eat humans, it would not be murder for it to eat.
Ultimately, humans are not inherently more entitled to anything, including life, more than any other species, though society is likely to disagree.
I’d choose
1 - cat
2 -
humancat3 - because the fallout from the human death will be more than from the cat, and could itself include a pet death or cat in a cage for years (people tend to not care much about a deceased person’s cat).3 - I’m changing my answer after reading a few others. They’re right, I am responsible for my cats, they are my family and I promised to care for them.
I feel like you’re taking a bit of a dissonant position here, no?
If it would be a moral tragedy to kill a cat and eat it, why is that not true for a cow? If life eats life, it’s not murder for me to kill and eat the cat, correct? So why is it a moral evil if killing and eating the cow is not?
I think you’re saying that this is just one of the “fucked up” stances that society has taken? But then why participate in it?
I’m fine with either answer. Either “eating meat is fine because animal life is less valuable than people’s dietary needs/preferences,” or “vegetarianism is the only moral option, as all life is equally valuable,” but it seems to me like any answer in the middle is hypocrisy, no?
Either “eating meat is fine because animal life is less valuable than people’s dietary needs/preferences,” or “vegetarianism is the only moral option, as all life is equally valuable,” but it seems to me like any answer in the middle is hypocrisy, no?
I dug into this more deeply in another response, but no. Life can be equally valuable and we can accept that evolution and history has led us to a place where we end life without feeling a sense of superiority over that life.
Imagine a poker game. You have been dealt a winning hand. You are incredibly confident of this and are correct to feel so. Are you a better person for winning that hand? Is this a signal that you’re not only expected to take the money of the others at the table, but permitted to do so because you are a better person?
We are the species that was dealt a better hand. This puts us in a position of power. This does not make us “better”, nor does it negate the value of those other lives, despite the position we find ourselves in. Yet we do, ultimately, get to collect as a result of that hand.
If it would be a moral tragedy to kill a cat and eat it, why is that not true for a cow? If life eats life, it’s not murder for me to kill and eat the cat, correct? So why is it a moral evil if killing and eating the cow is not?
You may have misunderstood, or maybe I didn’t word it clearly. There is no moral difference between killing and eating a cow or a cat, or even another human if need be but our society doesn’t see it that way, and that’s probably a good thing.
I think you’re saying that this is just one of the “fucked up” stances that society has taken? But then why participate in it?
It’s quite difficult for one born in a society and living within a society’s geographical bounds to just “not participate in it”. I choose to not participate in parts as I am able. I am able to afford meat that is not produced in the factory farm system (i.e. crowdcow), and so that is one way.
but it seems to me like any answer in the middle is hypocrisy, no?
Yes, it’s really nearly impossible to participate as a normal member of modern liberal society without being a major hypocrite. The more you try to not be a hypocrite, the more people think you’re a weirdo.
Well, to play devil’s advocate - and species eating it’s own on the regular would be a failure - but much more so for one whose primary strength is working together.
Kind of curious who your enemies are, OP.
The ones I haven’t met personally are causing the deaths of millions of people.
The ones I have met personally are rapists and child abusers.
Would you save those kinds of people instead of saving a cat to whom you have a duty of care?
Got you one better, where tf do you meet these people? I know there are a bunch of em’, but I’m not in these circles and don’t plan to be, thus I don’t know any.
They are not in special “circles” - they are unfortunately distributed through society. You’ve probably met a couple without realizing.
The only ways of knowing who they are is if you are either told about them by their victims, or are victimized yourself; or if they are convicted of their crimes.
Not OP, but how I know someone so despicable:
He was 30 when he raped my 13 year old best friend and when he got out of prison, continued dating her piece of shit mom instead of fucking off. I’d sooner throw him into a burning building than save him from one.
- Cat
- Cat
- Cat
My favorite thing about this post is that question 2 is asked based on the assumption that you’ve answered question 1 correctly by picking “cat”.
My cat and it’s not a hard decision
I don’t even love cats and I’d still save your sister’s cat over my worse enemy!!! LOL
I have no enemies
- My thrift store dollar bin reject rescue cats without a moment’s hesitation
- Cats
- I promised my cats I would care for them all their days
My cats are my family, so they have priority over most humans. This would only be a tough situation if it were between my cats and my best friend because I consider her to be family too. But, in that case, I would say screw the “you can only save one” mentality, I’d become like a mom who can lift a car off her baby, and somehow save them all.
There’s about 8 billion Humans, and about half of them suck more than any friendly domestic animal. The worst? I’d create an emergency.
More than half in my experience. I get to save my cat and make the world a better place for 1 and also 2 statistically
Cat
could have been between the cat and myself. The cat still gets preference.
It’s a moral dilemma between a life and a life, one is not lesser than the other regardless of whether one is human or not, so the issue then becomes which one is more valuable.
But valuable to whom?
Society? I may think my worst enemy is a bastard but they’re likely to be a productive member of society.
But valuable to me personally? I’m picking my cat every single time, it’s like asking to pick between your worst enemy and your child, it doesn’t even require weighing the options.Just out of curiosity, are you vegetarian/vegan?
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. It’s legitimate to wonder in what ways “all life” matters. It wasn’t an accusatory question.
Yeah, I didn’t mean it as a jab. I just thought it was an interesting assertion that “a life is a life” in this context. Seemed a strong stance, and I wondered how far they carried it.
Honestly, I don’t think eating meat is wrong, as long as you actually use it for food. But Killing for fun or for trophies is wrong because it’s wasting a life. It’s kind of a “use the whole buffalo” philosophy I Guess. I think factory farming is wrong,
I’m a big fan of lab grown meat,
I learn heavily towards seafood but I don’t abstain from red meat.Haha, we responded at like the same time lol. Wild.
And fair on all counts, but it does seem at odds to an “a life is a life” position, no?
Like, I’d assume you would be more upset if they were farming humans for meat than you are that they raise chickens and cows for meat, no?
And are you against all farming, or just factory farming? If an old school farmer raises a cow in a field, and then kills and eats it, is that acceptable?
And are fish’s lives not valuable? Less valuable than a chicken’s or a cow’s? It’s still a life, no?
I’m truly not trying to be combative. I’m actively trying to understand how to jive these two positions.
Nope
Fair. I’d be curious how you square that with the idea that “a life is a life”?
I don’t mean that in an accusatory way. It just seems like an inherent contradictions to me.
And to be clear, not that you’d save your cat over a stranger or enemy. Like, I know people who would save inanimate objects before either because the emotional connection is that strong
I mean more in the abstract that human and animal life are of equal value.
Like, would you support the farming of people to sell their meat at the grocery store? I’d assume not, but then it feels like a contradiction to me, and I’d be genuinely interested to hear how you square that circle.
I actually responded to your other comment here https://lemmy.world/comment/9530006
my worse enemy is the father of my friend who abused her when she was a kid, and watched CP, i don’t know him, i don’t want to know him, and if i had the chance to let him die in front of me, i wouldn’t hesitate to let it happen, and make earth a better place
