I’m sure you could. Are queer people actually safer under Biden? Or has their safety just not gotten worse? Abortion rights? Health care? Separating families at the border? Has the average American’s life actually improved or is it just “not worse”?
And here is the part where you list all the excuses about why Biden and the Dems couldn’t do anything about those things. And yet, they’re gonna continue to campaign and ask for money on a combination of “we’re gonna do those things” and “OMG Trump scary”. And then they won’t actually act on them.
Like every time Republicans go more fascist, Democrats see it as an excuse to move to the right and go “vote for the not fascist”. Fool me in 2016, shame on me. Fool me again in 2020, shame on you. Play the same goddamn game in 2024, I’m not sure what to say anymore.
And before you say it, I caucused in 2008, 2012, 2016, and 2020. I’ve tried to change things from the inside. The absolute bullshit I saw at EVERY LEVEL made me nauseated. I’ve watched as politicians left the Republican Party, came to the Democratic Party, continued voting with the Republicans AND WERE HIGHLY FUNDED BY THE DEM PARTY OF MY STATE. And they still are! I watched as “progressive policies” like “let’s push against Republicans trying to privatize Medicare” were tabled because they didn’t want to “offend moderates” EVEN WHEN THEY POLLED AT 70%+ of folks polled in the state opposed privatization.
They are a lost cause beyond all repair. They may have not lead the march into fascism, but they sure as hell haven’t done anything to slow it down.
I’m sure you could. Are queer people actually safer under Biden? Or has their safety just not gotten worse? Abortion rights? Health care? Separating families at the border? Has the average American’s life actually improved or is it just “not worse”?
It’s funny, because I could answer all of those, and the inevitable response back would be “But Republicans are working against it, so it doesn’t count”
I’ve been through this song and dance too many times.
Like every time Republicans go more fascist, Democrats see it as an excuse to move to the right and go “vote for the not fascist”. Fool me in 2016, shame on me. Fool me again in 2020, shame on you. Play the same goddamn game in 2024, I’m not sure what to say anymore.
You think… Democrats are further right now, in 2024… than they were in 2004.
The party realignment was still well underway during the Nixon Admin, as he purposefully courted George Wallace voters who were white segregationists and disaffected conservative Democrats. Both parties used to have conservative and liberal caucuses, and where a specific politician stood on an issue couldn’t typically be pinpointed by the letter behind their name, but Nixon’s Southern Strategy was the beginning of the end of that.
Man imagine literally admitting that “the other side are actual fascists” isn’t enough a reason alone for you to fall the fuck in line and still thinking you have any moral ground to stand on.
Big “Bridal Shower at a Gay Bar” kinda ally energy you’re bringing here.
Man imagine literally admitting that “the other side are actual fascists” isn’t enough a reason alone for you to fall the fuck in line and still thinking you have any moral ground to stand on.
No, no, it’s just that their morals are so STRONG that they can’t help but let fascists win.
I mean, I don’t think anyone should “fall in line” behind any of the Democrats. That’s part of the propaganda, is that they reframe something perfectly sensible (voting not to end democracy) as some emotionally resonant obedient thing that you have to fall in line behind the Democrats from now on, and vote for them no matter what, and in the meantime never criticize or disagree with them on anything, or even try to get concessions for your vote or do protests or anything else.
I mean, if that were the system, then they’d kind of have a point, even though in this election it would still be a good idea to fall the fuck in line behind the non fascist candidate. But I think at least at the rank and file level, the exact people who care enough to want to vote for Biden also care enough to, in a lot of cases, want to do direct protests and “uncommitted” votes and all that, because they care. It seems weird that the shills are so insistent that the system is either voting (and then agreeing with the Democrats on everything from then on), or doing the more-than-voting things that produce real change, which a lot of times a lot of the Democrat establishment itself kind of doesn’t want people doing.
(I mean – I’m aware that they don’t actually believe these things, and are just sort of tossing them out from their scripts, and also don’t care if people are poking holes in their logic, because the point is just to throw it all at the wall and hopefully some of sticks through sheer peer pressure. I think they don’t really care if we believe them, individually, either. I imagine it’s kind of like working in a call center; you just kind of type on a computer for a long time saying what you’re supposed to say, and then going home)
(Hey… do you think that’s why they’re so passionate about how unpleasant it is to have to fall in line behind a political ideology and support it, and then that means you don’t have your own voice and just “fall in line” etc etc, is because that’s their personal experience of what it means when you are “on” one particular side?)
If there are 10 people at a table and a Nazi is able to sit down with them unopposed, there are 11 Nazis at the table.
If you do not vote against fascism you are a fascist.
This is war and neutrality is tantamount to a refusal to condemn to the appropriate degree.
It is the preference of the petite bourgeois for genocide as a result of inaction than avoiding that by their action.
It is a position only capable of being held from the privilege of knowing you aren’t first up on the “decommissioning line” when the monstrous machine starts waking up.
So you’re saying that I, a trans leftist activist, am a fascist because I’m voting for a 3rd party instead of Biden? You know some of us actually do stuff other than bash people on Lemmy, right?
Yeah, pretty much. And like I say, I don’t think they actually believe these things for the most part. I think there are some people on e.g. lemmy.ml who’ve been taken in by it, but I think most of the “all Biden all the time” accounts on .world who have no separate interest in any other activity other than not voting for Biden are exactly what they seem to be.
As a queer person, this is really offensive. You realize that a large part of my opinion is formed by my queer identity, right?
Dems have done absolutely jack shit in my state to fight the slew of anti-trans and anti-gay bills passed by our legislature. They’ve done almost nothing at the federal level, and there was actually talk about letting Republicans push anti-trans legislation so that they could “just get a budget passed”. So yea, while my trans siblings are sitting here suffering and the Dems go “well I’m not sure about trans rights”, you might excuse my frustration and anger at the party that flies the rainbow flag and then turns the other way when we get fucked.
As opposed to the party actively doing the fucking.
But please tell us more about why we should be angrier at the dems for shit the republicans are doing.
I’m sure all that consent you manufacture for letting the republicans win again will definitely get you labeled one of the good ones when they start making lists.
Dems have done absolutely jack shit in my state to fight the slew of anti-trans and anti-gay bills passed by our legislature. They’ve done almost nothing at the federal level
You are aware that one of Biden’s first acts was to start a task force to try to reunite the separated families, which was difficult because the fucking monsters that were his predecessors hadn’t even bothered to keep detailed records of who the parents were for all these random uncared-for children that they still had in custody, sometimes too young to take care of themselves i.e. just bopping around with shit all over them or with life-threatening levels of neglect such that random visitors had to demand that they get taken in their unresponsive state to the hospital?
You can certainly cherry-pick some particular ways in which some particular aspect of life isn’t much better under Biden than under Trump, although you’ll have to carefully tiptoe around or mischaracterize some particular issues. Even the stuff you picked, though, winds up including some massive examples of why Biden is objectively better.
I’m sure you could. Are queer people actually safer under Biden? Or has their safety just not gotten worse? Abortion rights? Health care? Separating families at the border? Has the average American’s life actually improved or is it just “not worse”?
And here is the part where you list all the excuses about why Biden and the Dems couldn’t do anything about those things. And yet, they’re gonna continue to campaign and ask for money on a combination of “we’re gonna do those things” and “OMG Trump scary”. And then they won’t actually act on them.
Like every time Republicans go more fascist, Democrats see it as an excuse to move to the right and go “vote for the not fascist”. Fool me in 2016, shame on me. Fool me again in 2020, shame on you. Play the same goddamn game in 2024, I’m not sure what to say anymore.
And before you say it, I caucused in 2008, 2012, 2016, and 2020. I’ve tried to change things from the inside. The absolute bullshit I saw at EVERY LEVEL made me nauseated. I’ve watched as politicians left the Republican Party, came to the Democratic Party, continued voting with the Republicans AND WERE HIGHLY FUNDED BY THE DEM PARTY OF MY STATE. And they still are! I watched as “progressive policies” like “let’s push against Republicans trying to privatize Medicare” were tabled because they didn’t want to “offend moderates” EVEN WHEN THEY POLLED AT 70%+ of folks polled in the state opposed privatization.
They are a lost cause beyond all repair. They may have not lead the march into fascism, but they sure as hell haven’t done anything to slow it down.
It’s funny, because I could answer all of those, and the inevitable response back would be “But Republicans are working against it, so it doesn’t count”
I’ve been through this song and dance too many times.
You think… Democrats are further right now, in 2024… than they were in 2004.
Okay. You have fun with that delusion.
What are these people smoking…the Democratic Party of 2024 is way left of the one from 1992, by any measure, fiscal or social
Right, but go back a bit further and we had Nixon (A Republican) starting the EPA and having a very handsomly high tax rate for thw wealthy.
This Blue Dog really is the result of Reaganomics infecting our brains.
The party realignment was still well underway during the Nixon Admin, as he purposefully courted George Wallace voters who were white segregationists and disaffected conservative Democrats. Both parties used to have conservative and liberal caucuses, and where a specific politician stood on an issue couldn’t typically be pinpointed by the letter behind their name, but Nixon’s Southern Strategy was the beginning of the end of that.
Man imagine literally admitting that “the other side are actual fascists” isn’t enough a reason alone for you to fall the fuck in line and still thinking you have any moral ground to stand on.
Big “Bridal Shower at a Gay Bar” kinda ally energy you’re bringing here.
No, no, it’s just that their morals are so STRONG that they can’t help but let fascists win.
I mean, I don’t think anyone should “fall in line” behind any of the Democrats. That’s part of the propaganda, is that they reframe something perfectly sensible (voting not to end democracy) as some emotionally resonant obedient thing that you have to fall in line behind the Democrats from now on, and vote for them no matter what, and in the meantime never criticize or disagree with them on anything, or even try to get concessions for your vote or do protests or anything else.
I mean, if that were the system, then they’d kind of have a point, even though in this election it would still be a good idea to fall the fuck in line behind the non fascist candidate. But I think at least at the rank and file level, the exact people who care enough to want to vote for Biden also care enough to, in a lot of cases, want to do direct protests and “uncommitted” votes and all that, because they care. It seems weird that the shills are so insistent that the system is either voting (and then agreeing with the Democrats on everything from then on), or doing the more-than-voting things that produce real change, which a lot of times a lot of the Democrat establishment itself kind of doesn’t want people doing.
(I mean – I’m aware that they don’t actually believe these things, and are just sort of tossing them out from their scripts, and also don’t care if people are poking holes in their logic, because the point is just to throw it all at the wall and hopefully some of sticks through sheer peer pressure. I think they don’t really care if we believe them, individually, either. I imagine it’s kind of like working in a call center; you just kind of type on a computer for a long time saying what you’re supposed to say, and then going home)
(Hey… do you think that’s why they’re so passionate about how unpleasant it is to have to fall in line behind a political ideology and support it, and then that means you don’t have your own voice and just “fall in line” etc etc, is because that’s their personal experience of what it means when you are “on” one particular side?)
I have zero sympathy.
It’s fascism. That’s the end of the debate.
If there are 10 people at a table and a Nazi is able to sit down with them unopposed, there are 11 Nazis at the table.
If you do not vote against fascism you are a fascist.
This is war and neutrality is tantamount to a refusal to condemn to the appropriate degree.
It is the preference of the petite bourgeois for genocide as a result of inaction than avoiding that by their action.
It is a position only capable of being held from the privilege of knowing you aren’t first up on the “decommissioning line” when the monstrous machine starts waking up.
So you’re saying that I, a trans leftist activist, am a fascist because I’m voting for a 3rd party instead of Biden? You know some of us actually do stuff other than bash people on Lemmy, right?
Yes, you are.
Just because you’re a blindingly stupid fascist doesn’t make you not a fascist.
You’ll be tried with the other collaborators all the same. Equal opportunity justice!
Signed, a queer palestinian syndicalist since we’re apparently tag dropping now.
Dude, it’s not the progressives that are trying to woo the “centrist” right-wingers.
Yeah, pretty much. And like I say, I don’t think they actually believe these things for the most part. I think there are some people on e.g. lemmy.ml who’ve been taken in by it, but I think most of the “all Biden all the time” accounts on .world who have no separate interest in any other activity other than not voting for Biden are exactly what they seem to be.
As a queer person, this is really offensive. You realize that a large part of my opinion is formed by my queer identity, right?
Dems have done absolutely jack shit in my state to fight the slew of anti-trans and anti-gay bills passed by our legislature. They’ve done almost nothing at the federal level, and there was actually talk about letting Republicans push anti-trans legislation so that they could “just get a budget passed”. So yea, while my trans siblings are sitting here suffering and the Dems go “well I’m not sure about trans rights”, you might excuse my frustration and anger at the party that flies the rainbow flag and then turns the other way when we get fucked.
As opposed to the party actively doing the fucking.
But please tell us more about why we should be angrier at the dems for shit the republicans are doing.
I’m sure all that consent you manufacture for letting the republicans win again will definitely get you labeled one of the good ones when they start making lists.
Lol right? “My red state does fucked up shit! Why won’t the Dems stop it? I won’t vote for them, then!”
Fucking morons.
You aren’t even trying to seem in good faith
My brother
You are aware that one of Biden’s first acts was to start a task force to try to reunite the separated families, which was difficult because the fucking monsters that were his predecessors hadn’t even bothered to keep detailed records of who the parents were for all these random uncared-for children that they still had in custody, sometimes too young to take care of themselves i.e. just bopping around with shit all over them or with life-threatening levels of neglect such that random visitors had to demand that they get taken in their unresponsive state to the hospital?
You can certainly cherry-pick some particular ways in which some particular aspect of life isn’t much better under Biden than under Trump, although you’ll have to carefully tiptoe around or mischaracterize some particular issues. Even the stuff you picked, though, winds up including some massive examples of why Biden is objectively better.