What about genetic disorders like type 1 diabetes, cystic fibrosis, or Huntington’s disease? Nobody gatekeeps people with those conditions because “God makes no mistakes” - yet clearly, mistakes were made.
OK, sure - but I mean when a type 1 diabetic gets a diagnosis and begins hormone therapy (i.e. taking insulin), it is not that different than a trans woman getting a diagnosis and beginning hormone therapy, yet Christians rarely tell a diabetic they shouldn’t take insulin, but are quick to view the trans woman is immoral for taking estrogen. (Admittedly there are some Christians who might believe any medical interventions are wrong, but I assume they are not representative.)
And yes, the problem of evil is a thing, Christians believe God is “omnibenevolent” (as well as being omnipotent, all powerful, and omniscient, all knowing) - this generates a kind of problem, in that no God that is all good, all powerful, and all knowing could exist given what we know about the world.
Did you not see that girl who died of measles because she wasn’t vaxxed? That was a few weeks ago. Parents were all like “don’t vaccinate your kids, god has a plan” after still.
These people are liable to kill you faster to complete god’s design or whatever rather than help you in any way. Actual psychopaths feeling justified cause of “god”.
For those who want to know which story, the short version is family house in a flood, family make it to the roof. Boat comes, another, another they send them away “God will save me” a helicopter comes, is told to go. The family die. God tells them they fucked up 'cause He sent three boats and a helicopter which they refused
I hate antivaxxers. As a kid I couldn’t get my first dose of measles vaccine because I was sick, and wasn’t vaccinated until my 5 year old vaccinations. I was sick with measles, but was okay.
I got measles because vaccination wasn’t widespread then and there. The same happened to other kids and they weren’t as lucky.
This kid was betrayed by their community, denied vaccines that would have kept them alive because people lied to them
Christians tell people with CF or diabetes that God doesn’t make mistakes and their condition is not real as a result? It sounds like in the case of your friend the Christians are just saying the friend deserves CF because they are sinful and fallen, but not that CF doesn’t exist.
No it was “God doesn’t make mistakes, therefore you must deserve to suffer.”
But that’s also what ive heard from Christians about anything gay/trans. They dont say its fake, they say god made things the way they are on purpose and those urges and desires are temptations. They make it into a test of their faith.
“Oh you have CF? You must have sinned a lot.” (My friend, who is atheist) “yeah, actually. Dont really care though”. “Oh well if you pray every day and atone and blah blah God will save you, hes just waiting for you to reach out to him.”
“Oh you wanna dress like a girl? No no, this is a test, god wants to know you’re faithful. Repent for these thoughts and pray every day and atone […]”.
Any failures or faults are sin, at least with the Christians I know in my area. Gay, trans, genetic disorders, cancer, whatever.
So these ones, at least, admit gay/trans people exist. One of them even openly admitted to having those urges “once” but said he prayed the gay away.
I got a strong feeling he secretly hates himself in a few ways. The alcoholism was a big hint.
The short of it is “It’s not a mistake if it’s a test.”
Those diseases/disorders are your cross to bear presuming you believe in predestination which many denominations do not believe in, or at least that is what you would expect a believer to say
yes, that makes sense - so the idea is that someone struggling with gender dysphoria should just live with it and not treat the gender dysphoria …
(CW: Biblical quotes, transphobia ahead)
Though, I don’t find a scriptural basis for contemporary transphobia.
As far as I can tell, the clearest condemnation from the Bible is from Deuteronomy 22:5
A woman shall not wear a man’s apparel, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment; for whoever does such things is abhorrent to the LORD your God,
but I’m not sure scripture defines what is considered a man’s garment vs a woman’s, and most Christian women wear pants which until recently was considered only a man’s garment. Historically, men wore skirts before women did, and likewise with heels - skirts and heels were both originally men’s clothing, only later did they become women’s clothing. Either way, cross-dressing seems like the most overtly forbidden aspect from a scriptural argument.
Either way, there is no scriptural argument for why a trans woman shouldn’t take estrogen. Sometimes Christians will appeal to Genesis 1:27:
So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
This can be interpreted as enbyphobic and as denying the reality of agender folks, etc. - but it doesn’t expressly forbid a trans woman from taking estrogen, nor does it explicitly rule out gender expansive people.
In fact, in early Midrash viewed Adam as an androgyne, as having male and female parts, since God created Adam first and split the woman from him later, and since God made man and woman in his image, it is assumed God is both male and female.
A Christian might try to argue that Genesis is giving a rigid definition of humanity as only man and woman, and that this implies that men should only be like men or can’t become women (and vice versa), but that still doesn’t forbid taking estrogen either, nor does it prove a binary trans woman isn’t a woman. I wouldn’t assume a Christian believes the estrogen changes the essence of the person, and they will believe a man on estrogen is still a man.
Besides, Genesis just said God created mankind in his image, as male and female - God creates lots of things that then change later - we don’t argue that God made trees and now we can’t use them as lumber to make a house, a tree can become a house. An apple can become a pie, wheat can become beer, etc. Lots of animals God created change their sex, and there’s nothing explicit in Genesis that denies this, let alone denies its possibility for humans.
If anything, the Bible gives mixed messages on gender-diverse people.
For example, Deuteronomy 23:1 expressly forbids anyone who has had their testes removed (i.e. eunuchs) from being part of Israel:
No one who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assembly of the Lord.
But then this is sorta reversed in Isiah 56:
For this is what the Lord says:
“To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths,
who choose what pleases me
and hold fast to my covenant—
to them I will give within my temple and its walls
a memorial and a name
better than sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
that will endure forever.
…
And for Christians, in Matthew 19:12, Christ himself said:
For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.
The idea of “eunuchs who were born that way” indicates this was probably how they at the time thought of some intersex individuals and other gender-expansive folks, as eunuchs.
And the context of the quote is that Christ is responding to the question of whether it’s better not to marry, and in response he says some choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven, and that those who can should do so. Basically this sounds like a preference for not marrying and reproducing, and living like the eunuchs, and this also connotes a positive association with eunuchs.
Then in Acts 8:36-38 a eunuch asks what prevents him from being baptized, and then was baptized without issue:
As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.
In summary
the Old Testament (OT) says cross-dressing is abhorrent to God
OT also says eunuchs cannot be part of Israel / God’s chosen people
OT also says in the new Israel eunuchs will be given a special place (an unfulfilled prophecy)
the New Testament (NT) says people should live like eunuchs and not marry
What about genetic disorders like type 1 diabetes, cystic fibrosis, or Huntington’s disease? Nobody gatekeeps people with those conditions because “God makes no mistakes” - yet clearly, mistakes were made.
“Those weren’t mistakes! God does what he wants, we never said he was nice.”
If I did believe in God I would tend to agree, God is a massive piece of shit.
OK, sure - but I mean when a type 1 diabetic gets a diagnosis and begins hormone therapy (i.e. taking insulin), it is not that different than a trans woman getting a diagnosis and beginning hormone therapy, yet Christians rarely tell a diabetic they shouldn’t take insulin, but are quick to view the trans woman is immoral for taking estrogen. (Admittedly there are some Christians who might believe any medical interventions are wrong, but I assume they are not representative.)
And yes, the problem of evil is a thing, Christians believe God is “omnibenevolent” (as well as being omnipotent, all powerful, and omniscient, all knowing) - this generates a kind of problem, in that no God that is all good, all powerful, and all knowing could exist given what we know about the world.
I generally take the trans hate from them as more of a product of political manipulation given to them in a wrapper of religion to justify it.
I fucking hate propagandists so much…
agreed, it’s politics more than religion - though tbh religion and politics are to intertwined it’s unclear if it’s possible to separate them …
and yes, I hate the manipulation of people for the sake of harmful agendas that seem to prioritize the needs of the few over the needs of the many.
However, that just means we need effective propaganda that goes in the other direction, that promotes the well-being and rights of all, etc.
Did you not see that girl who died of measles because she wasn’t vaxxed? That was a few weeks ago. Parents were all like “don’t vaccinate your kids, god has a plan” after still.
These people are liable to kill you faster to complete god’s design or whatever rather than help you in any way. Actual psychopaths feeling justified cause of “god”.
Reminds me of that story of a family in a flood and helicopters.
For those who want to know which story, the short version is family house in a flood, family make it to the roof. Boat comes, another, another they send them away “God will save me” a helicopter comes, is told to go. The family die. God tells them they fucked up 'cause He sent three boats and a helicopter which they refused
I hate antivaxxers. As a kid I couldn’t get my first dose of measles vaccine because I was sick, and wasn’t vaccinated until my 5 year old vaccinations. I was sick with measles, but was okay.
I got measles because vaccination wasn’t widespread then and there. The same happened to other kids and they weren’t as lucky.
This kid was betrayed by their community, denied vaccines that would have kept them alive because people lied to them
Ed. Swipeographical errors
It’s definitely a lesser extent but yes they do.
The people that are rude about that just say they’ve sinned, and they brought this on themselves.
Source: friend has cf.
Christians tell people with CF or diabetes that God doesn’t make mistakes and their condition is not real as a result? It sounds like in the case of your friend the Christians are just saying the friend deserves CF because they are sinful and fallen, but not that CF doesn’t exist.
No it was “God doesn’t make mistakes, therefore you must deserve to suffer.”
But that’s also what ive heard from Christians about anything gay/trans. They dont say its fake, they say god made things the way they are on purpose and those urges and desires are temptations. They make it into a test of their faith.
“Oh you have CF? You must have sinned a lot.” (My friend, who is atheist) “yeah, actually. Dont really care though”. “Oh well if you pray every day and atone and blah blah God will save you, hes just waiting for you to reach out to him.”
“Oh you wanna dress like a girl? No no, this is a test, god wants to know you’re faithful. Repent for these thoughts and pray every day and atone […]”.
Any failures or faults are sin, at least with the Christians I know in my area. Gay, trans, genetic disorders, cancer, whatever.
So these ones, at least, admit gay/trans people exist. One of them even openly admitted to having those urges “once” but said he prayed the gay away.
I got a strong feeling he secretly hates himself in a few ways. The alcoholism was a big hint.
The short of it is “It’s not a mistake if it’s a test.”
Those diseases/disorders are your cross to bear presuming you believe in predestination which many denominations do not believe in, or at least that is what you would expect a believer to say
yes, that makes sense - so the idea is that someone struggling with gender dysphoria should just live with it and not treat the gender dysphoria …
(CW: Biblical quotes, transphobia ahead)
Though, I don’t find a scriptural basis for contemporary transphobia.
As far as I can tell, the clearest condemnation from the Bible is from Deuteronomy 22:5
but I’m not sure scripture defines what is considered a man’s garment vs a woman’s, and most Christian women wear pants which until recently was considered only a man’s garment. Historically, men wore skirts before women did, and likewise with heels - skirts and heels were both originally men’s clothing, only later did they become women’s clothing. Either way, cross-dressing seems like the most overtly forbidden aspect from a scriptural argument.
Either way, there is no scriptural argument for why a trans woman shouldn’t take estrogen. Sometimes Christians will appeal to Genesis 1:27:
This can be interpreted as enbyphobic and as denying the reality of agender folks, etc. - but it doesn’t expressly forbid a trans woman from taking estrogen, nor does it explicitly rule out gender expansive people.
In fact, in early Midrash viewed Adam as an androgyne, as having male and female parts, since God created Adam first and split the woman from him later, and since God made man and woman in his image, it is assumed God is both male and female.
A Christian might try to argue that Genesis is giving a rigid definition of humanity as only man and woman, and that this implies that men should only be like men or can’t become women (and vice versa), but that still doesn’t forbid taking estrogen either, nor does it prove a binary trans woman isn’t a woman. I wouldn’t assume a Christian believes the estrogen changes the essence of the person, and they will believe a man on estrogen is still a man.
Besides, Genesis just said God created mankind in his image, as male and female - God creates lots of things that then change later - we don’t argue that God made trees and now we can’t use them as lumber to make a house, a tree can become a house. An apple can become a pie, wheat can become beer, etc. Lots of animals God created change their sex, and there’s nothing explicit in Genesis that denies this, let alone denies its possibility for humans.
If anything, the Bible gives mixed messages on gender-diverse people.
For example, Deuteronomy 23:1 expressly forbids anyone who has had their testes removed (i.e. eunuchs) from being part of Israel:
But then this is sorta reversed in Isiah 56:
And for Christians, in Matthew 19:12, Christ himself said:
The idea of “eunuchs who were born that way” indicates this was probably how they at the time thought of some intersex individuals and other gender-expansive folks, as eunuchs.
And the context of the quote is that Christ is responding to the question of whether it’s better not to marry, and in response he says some choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven, and that those who can should do so. Basically this sounds like a preference for not marrying and reproducing, and living like the eunuchs, and this also connotes a positive association with eunuchs.
Then in Acts 8:36-38 a eunuch asks what prevents him from being baptized, and then was baptized without issue:
In summary
So it’s a bit of a mess, to be honest.
Those are the work of the devil, obviously.
Shame their god isn’t more powerful than their devil