I was perplexed by the question. What’s the difference? They explained: “Should I tiptoe and watch my manners around you or be blunt? Flirtatious or chill? Brag about my sexual conquests or talk about our feelings? When you’re sad, do I hug you and buy you ice cream or do we go grab some beers? Should I wonder if we’ll ever hook up?”
I’m not sure if I’m more appalled or confused by this mindset. I thought everyone treated their friends the same regardless of their gender identity. Is this just a fringe case of toxic masculinity, or is this really how the average cis person sees the world?
If you asking if gender determines how people interact, the answer is absolutely yes. There are so many ways this is true.
Can you explain more? I’ve been in this world a long time and I am certain that I treat all of my friends the same regardless of their gender identity - I come to every conversation as my authentic self. Are people wearing masks over their personality when interacting with people of differing genders?
Navigating society and following etiquette and social norms doesn’t invalidate being authentic. A straight man is going to interact with a woman differently than with a man, not only are the social expectations on how he interacts different, but how he internally feels in relationship to the person is different. As your friend suggested, being a man or a woman can make the difference between whether a romantic relationship is a possibility or not. Courting, flirting, etc. are authentic behaviors straight men will engage in with women that they won’t do with men.
What if it’s obvious from the get-go that a romance isn’t possible, like if you’re friends with a married woman? Do you then treat her the same as your bros, or is there still a difference?
There are differences regardless of whether there is romantic potential. I will talk about things with other men that I wouldn’t with women for many reasons. Social relationships are complex and gender does play a role in interactions, even if people aren’t consciously aware of them.
yes, the way gender plays a role is often unconscious - this is an important point
This is a new concept to me. What sort of things do you talk about with one gender but not the other, and why?
There are exceptions, of course, but generally I don’t speak with women regarding my sexual health (or sex in general), most of my mental health, or things specific to men. For the most part, they wouldn’t want to discuss these things with me either or wouldn’t have the experience to relate to it.
Definitely still a difference, courting is just one of many examples of the way gender informs social dynamics. Being married doesn’t stop a straight man from finding someone attractive or not, for example, but being a man would prevent attraction.
Not everyone is exactly the same in how they go about navigating the social reality, but yes, gender heavily influences the way people will treat you.
For example, before I transitioned I was perceived as a man and it wasn’t unusual for me to hold doors open for anyone. Now that I am seen as a women in society, men won’t let me hold doors open for them. It’s extremely unusual for women to hold a door open for a man in my society (I’m in the southeastern U.S.), and trying to do so violates the social norms because of my gender.
Thanks for the rundown. I’m starting to question if I’m just such a hardcore feminist that I don’t see gender the same as others, or if I really should have had the autism screening that my doctor recommended. Clearly there’s something different in the way my eyes see society and interactions.
Take the test if you can, either way you learn something about yourself.
Reaching out to my insurance now to find the path forward
As someone who would identify as a hardcore feminist and who has been told they’re on the spectrum countless times, I feel you, lol.
I admit my understanding of the whole gender thing is a bit analytical (and I encourage other voices to correct me).
When I was closeted and before I admitted to myself I was trans, my views probably would have been described as gender abolitionist. Honestly gender was so painful for me that I felt gender itself was the problem (and there are plenty of examples of the harm from gender norms to get lost rationalizing this way). Of course now, looking back, I was clearly suffering from gender dysphoria and I found ways to rationalize never alleviating those feelings - I developed a disdain for femininity (femmephobia) and called it feminism, for example.
Julia Serano’s books really helped me work through these issues early in transition, maybe they would help you too? Especially you might find Sexed Up helpful as that is more about the way society genders people and how that sets up expectations. Not just helpful from a trans and feminist perspective, but also from that outsider / autistic perspective, where it helps to have an explicit map explaining the implicit social norms everyone else lives by.
EDIT: by the way, autism/ADHD and gender dysphoria have a high rate of coincidence:
from this article
And that increase with ADHD is also true for people on the autism spectrum:
from (42)
So don’t be surprised, being trans, that you might have some neurodivergent traits too!
A person being married doesn’t make romance impossible, just unethical. Therefore, caution to avoid behaviors that could be misconstrued as flirting is still important.
Its just the way some people learn to be and have observed how others interact.
My dad has a story from the late 70s when he was working in seminars. The more conservative the area, the more often women interpreted being included and an equal as flirtation. And as my dad was married, this offended them greatly.
Your mileage will vary with each person. But what your friend was asking was how you would like to be treated, because he is now on uneven footing, and I think this was really cool of him. Even if it’s a bit sexist, it’s honest.
Yes, the word person/persona literally means ‘mask’. Wearing different “masks” is a common human behaviour.
Do you know about racialization? Gender works in a similar way. Children are taught since early age that they need to follow different “rulesets” when interacting with boys and girls.
That’s really interesting, I didn’t know that. On deeper thought, I do act differently in the workplace than I do in a dive bar or in a museum. But I’m getting hung up on treating people differently based on their gender. It would be strange to me to speak to a female-presenting colleague differently than a male-presenting one.
Some people prefere to be treated differently. And some don’t. People in my bubble treat each other mostly equaly (except for the flirting bit I guess), but I know women that hate men swearing in their presence and men who feel awkward if you tell them about your feelings too much. I suppose you can choose from each of his question the option that suits you, no matter the gender stereotype it’s associated with.
I interact differently even within my friends of the same gender. I will match the energy of the person I am talking to. Sally may be bubbly and excited, and I will to bring the same enthusiasm. Wendy is much quieter, and we talk slower and about different things.
Sally and Wendy are going to have a lot in common compared to Tom and Kenny thanks to social conditioning. Some people will just see the similarities and say, “boy friends act this way, girl friends act this way.”
Fundamentally, there isn’t a reason I need to treat Sally or Wendy differently than each other or to Tom and Kenny, but it works out that way a lot of times.