Those users use neopronouns and apparently for a lot of people it’s beyond the limit of their ability to not gatekeep queer people. There was an announcement about it from the admin that was basically “yeah neopronouns are valid, don’t misgender anyone period” and several people completely lost their shit and made threads to bitch about it in.
If you don’t use the pronouns a user lists in their bio when referring to that user you’ll catch a ban. There is a user who has dragon as their pronoun and anyone not using it is being banned.
No. The person you are referring to uses “drag” as pronouns, but is also ok with they/them.
People who can’t simply use either of those options, and insist on getting in to a discussion about what identities they think are valid are the folk getting banned.
If you simply ignore the users whose pronouns you find challenging, or use their pronouns and avoid starting/continuing discourse offering your personal opinions about whether or not someone elses identity is valid, there are no bans.
nah, i’m blazing right past that and accepting everyone’s identity as valid, the opinion is it’s hilarious and entertaining watching pedants twist themselves in knots to absolve themselves of fundamentally queerphobic and exclusionary takes.
you can equate “accept everyone” with “scrutinize and judge” if you like though, it’s very helpful when people wave their red flags openly.
It’s very simple, just don’t go around willfully misgendering people. if you can’t bring yourself to gender someone correctly simply don’t refer to him/her/them/It/drag. identity should not be gatekept by anyone for any reason, and i wholeheartedly support this policy.
i would like to correct myself. I’ve spoke to drag, and drag is not a roleplayer. Since my point of view on pronouns and one’s identity in general was incarrect and disproven by @chocosoldier@lemmy.blahaj.zone, i stand corrected, and want the maximum of people who had similar way of thinking to my own, to doubt their argumentation one more time. While drag’s pronouns might sound weird for you grammatically, it could and should exist and be accepted by you if you consider yourself a part of queer community.
hey fam i was raised as a white dude in a still-segregated pocket of the US, i totally understand about culture giving us biases and bigotries and having to recognize and contend with that. deprogramming isn’t easy and i respect you for having come this far.
i’d say that the very idea that anyone else has a say in who you are is antithetical to the aims of the queer rights movement because we struggle to live authentically in accordance with who know we are in spite of who and what society tells us we are or must be. i am a trans woman, it is a part of who and what i am and always has been and no amount of ‘disagreement’ from anyone (including myself, i was in denial for decades) can ever change that. moreover it is a scientific fact that it is important to my mental health that this immutable internal identity is acknowledged and accepted by those around me regardless of whether i put on a satisfactory display of arbitrary gender tropes. i did not wake up one day and decide this for myself, it simply is and i have no choice but to abide what is true, or go back to torturing myself living what i know is a lie.
i don’t expect cis people to get my identity. how even could they? but i don’t need them to. what i need, again not “i want” but what the facts of human psychology dictate that i need in order to be mentally healthy, is for people to accept that my identity is what it is and go along with it. does it seem ridiculous to me? hell, i seem ridiculous to a lot of people!
i don’t get drag’s gender either. i don’t get grail’s. i have thoughts and opinions, who wouldn’t? but that’s not relevant. whether i get it isn’t relevant. what i think or opine about it isn’t relevant. the bar isn’t getting it, the bar is accept people. the bar is not scrutinizing and making judgment calls about what you think should or shouldn’t be a valid gender or pronoun, or worse spinning a narrative where this person doesn’t really deserve to have their identity acknowledged.
this whole thing boils down to whether people are willing to respect someone’s purported identity even if it seems silly to them, and that’s the absolute core of trans rights.
i have thoughts and opinions, who wouldn’t? but that’s not relevant. whether i get it isn’t relevant. what i think or opine about it isn’t relevant. the bar isn’t getting it, the bar is accept people. the bar is not scrutinizing and making judgment calls about what you think should or shouldn’t be a valid gender or pronoun, or worse spinning a narrative where this person doesn’t really deserve to have their identity acknowledged.
I agree, people should not be harassed for the way they identify themself, and i guess you’re right that only you can identify yourself, but i still have questions. Those are personal, tough and existential, so i don’t mind if you prefer not to answer them. They’re vaguely related to the OP topic, some of them entirely unrelated to it, but after the fact that that the Drag incident made blahaj divided, which makes me sad, my wish, to find out the answers is ihe main reason why i’ve decieed to leave my previous comment in the first place.
Let’s take you and what you said, for example: you said, that you have been in denial on the matter of your identity. How have you defined that you always were a woman, and not only since you identified yourself as one? What defines for you your identity as a woman? How have you assured that it’s not a mere act you put on because it makes you feel happy, and that you wouldn’t drop it as soon as you’ll get bored? I’m asking, because i (amab) am kinda uncertain of myself. I came to a conclusion that i still identify myself as male, i still am in fact male, only that i don’t want to conform to the gender norms. So how do you know that you’re not in the same state as me, that you’re actually of other gender, not the one you were assigned at birth? How are you certain that you’re not just mimicking the gender because you’re attracted to it?
Sorry that i bother you with all those questiuns. As i said, i am still uncertaim of myself, so since you’ve decided to transition, that might mean that you’ve found some objective criteria, that will help me define myself as well.
Using they/them when someone asks you not to is a shitty thing to do and should not be acceptable on an instance that’s supposed to be a safe space for queer people.
it’s shitty to continue they/them’ing someone who asked for different pronouns, no different than referring a person you know is a trans woman as “he”, full stop. but please continue spinning yourself in circles to make it okay to knowingly and willingly misgender people, queer folks deserve to see that big red flag you’re waving.
Wait what happened?
Those users use neopronouns and apparently for a lot of people it’s beyond the limit of their ability to not gatekeep queer people. There was an announcement about it from the admin that was basically “yeah neopronouns are valid, don’t misgender anyone period” and several people completely lost their shit and made threads to bitch about it in.
If you don’t use the pronouns a user lists in their bio when referring to that user you’ll catch a ban. There is a user who has dragon as their pronoun and anyone not using it is being banned.
No. The person you are referring to uses “drag” as pronouns, but is also ok with they/them.
People who can’t simply use either of those options, and insist on getting in to a discussion about what identities they think are valid are the folk getting banned.
If you simply ignore the users whose pronouns you find challenging, or use their pronouns and avoid starting/continuing discourse offering your personal opinions about whether or not someone elses identity is valid, there are no bans.
The OP here is literally starting discourse offering their personal opinions about whether or not someone else’s identity is valid.
nah, i’m blazing right past that and accepting everyone’s identity as valid, the opinion is it’s hilarious and entertaining watching pedants twist themselves in knots to absolve themselves of fundamentally queerphobic and exclusionary takes.
you can equate “accept everyone” with “scrutinize and judge” if you like though, it’s very helpful when people wave their red flags openly.
It’s very simple, just don’t go around willfully misgendering people. if you can’t bring yourself to gender someone correctly simply don’t refer to him/her/them/It/drag. identity should not be gatekept by anyone for any reason, and i wholeheartedly support this policy.
Removed by mod
i would like to correct myself. I’ve spoke to drag, and drag is not a roleplayer. Since my point of view on pronouns and one’s identity in general was incarrect and disproven by @chocosoldier@lemmy.blahaj.zone, i stand corrected, and want the maximum of people who had similar way of thinking to my own, to doubt their argumentation one more time. While drag’s pronouns might sound weird for you grammatically, it could and should exist and be accepted by you if you consider yourself a part of queer community.
hey fam i was raised as a white dude in a still-segregated pocket of the US, i totally understand about culture giving us biases and bigotries and having to recognize and contend with that. deprogramming isn’t easy and i respect you for having come this far.
i’d say that the very idea that anyone else has a say in who you are is antithetical to the aims of the queer rights movement because we struggle to live authentically in accordance with who know we are in spite of who and what society tells us we are or must be. i am a trans woman, it is a part of who and what i am and always has been and no amount of ‘disagreement’ from anyone (including myself, i was in denial for decades) can ever change that. moreover it is a scientific fact that it is important to my mental health that this immutable internal identity is acknowledged and accepted by those around me regardless of whether i put on a satisfactory display of arbitrary gender tropes. i did not wake up one day and decide this for myself, it simply is and i have no choice but to abide what is true, or go back to torturing myself living what i know is a lie.
i don’t expect cis people to get my identity. how even could they? but i don’t need them to. what i need, again not “i want” but what the facts of human psychology dictate that i need in order to be mentally healthy, is for people to accept that my identity is what it is and go along with it. does it seem ridiculous to me? hell, i seem ridiculous to a lot of people!
i don’t get drag’s gender either. i don’t get grail’s. i have thoughts and opinions, who wouldn’t? but that’s not relevant. whether i get it isn’t relevant. what i think or opine about it isn’t relevant. the bar isn’t getting it, the bar is accept people. the bar is not scrutinizing and making judgment calls about what you think should or shouldn’t be a valid gender or pronoun, or worse spinning a narrative where this person doesn’t really deserve to have their identity acknowledged.
this whole thing boils down to whether people are willing to respect someone’s purported identity even if it seems silly to them, and that’s the absolute core of trans rights.
This should be framed! That’s it exactly!
I agree, people should not be harassed for the way they identify themself, and i guess you’re right that only you can identify yourself, but i still have questions. Those are personal, tough and existential, so i don’t mind if you prefer not to answer them. They’re vaguely related to the OP topic, some of them entirely unrelated to it, but after the fact that that the Drag incident made blahaj divided, which makes me sad, my wish, to find out the answers is ihe main reason why i’ve decieed to leave my previous comment in the first place.
Let’s take you and what you said, for example: you said, that you have been in denial on the matter of your identity. How have you defined that you always were a woman, and not only since you identified yourself as one? What defines for you your identity as a woman? How have you assured that it’s not a mere act you put on because it makes you feel happy, and that you wouldn’t drop it as soon as you’ll get bored? I’m asking, because i (amab) am kinda uncertain of myself. I came to a conclusion that i still identify myself as male, i still am in fact male, only that i don’t want to conform to the gender norms. So how do you know that you’re not in the same state as me, that you’re actually of other gender, not the one you were assigned at birth? How are you certain that you’re not just mimicking the gender because you’re attracted to it?
Sorry that i bother you with all those questiuns. As i said, i am still uncertaim of myself, so since you’ve decided to transition, that might mean that you’ve found some objective criteria, that will help me define myself as well.
Idk I think it’s okay rule. Use persons preferred pronouns unless you don’t know it then use they/them since it’s basically gender neutral.
Part of the drama is people getting in trouble for using they/them, look at the screenshot being used against Gormadt in this very thread.
It’s a thorny issue to be sure, but I still struggle to see what’s wrong with they/them.
Using they/them when someone asks you not to is a shitty thing to do and should not be acceptable on an instance that’s supposed to be a safe space for queer people.
so many people are willfully missing this very simple point, and it says a lot about how they really think about trans people.
Of course, but it’s not clear at all that’s what’s happening in the screenshot.
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“you get the pronouns i feel like using for you” is some phobe shit, adding a third option doesn’t make it less of a shitty thing to do.
Removed by mod
it’s shitty to continue they/them’ing someone who asked for different pronouns, no different than referring a person you know is a trans woman as “he”, full stop. but please continue spinning yourself in circles to make it okay to knowingly and willingly misgender people, queer folks deserve to see that big red flag you’re waving.